Need to Nurture

[Mindfondler]

I posted the following musing on Fetlife yesterday, and I thought I'd do the same here, in case any Litsters have any bright ideas.

Six months ago, my wife and I joined our local BDSM community. We're having a fantastic time! My wife has adapted to the change quickly and found kinky avenues that she enjoys pursuing with me. It's a wonderful pleasure for me to accompany her to events and to see her express herself with such poise and confidence.

At the same time, I'm finding it difficult to define my own ongoing kinky needs. Originally, my role was to introduce my wife to the world of BDSM but, now that I've done that, I'm left with a sense of emptiness. I thrive on playing a part in seeing others build their confidence and earn their wings -- nurturing people -- but my circumstances now mean that I have few opportunities to do so. I'm very happy that my wife no longer requires that support from me, but I'm feeling lost without a nurturing role.

This gap that has opened up for me explains my motivation for offering help to other BDSM newbies as per my recent personals ad (link below). Unfortunately that hasn't generated any leads as yet.

[I've deleted the link because it was annoying Primalex (see below) -- and presumably therefore others as well. Although it's directly relevant to my plea here as an example of what I'm trying to do, I didn't want to create the impression that I'm just using this post as a mechanism for promoting it. That's not true and I'm serious about wanting ideas on this topic. Incidentally, even if I were promoting the ad shamelessly, then that would be me promoting something that I'm volunteering to do in order to help other people. If anyone is interested then I'm sure that they can find the ad themselves.]

I'm wondering whether there's another way to address my nurturing itch within the kink world. Obviously, it needs to be in a way that's agreeable to both my wife and me. We're not yet sure what that encompasses, but we've agreed that we will consider all potential options together. Unfortunately, as a BDSM newbie, I haven't yet developed many skills that I can usefully pass on or apply -- so teaching, say, rope suspension classes definitely isn't on the cards (don't worry!).

If anyone has any ideas, then my wife and I will be pleased to hear them. Thanks for any constructive contributions.

Sincerely,

MF (and Mrs MF)
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[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Witchybug]

Could it be possible to include another person? It sounds like you need a new sub.... Cheers

 

[Primalex]

This gap that has opened up for me explains my motivation for offering help to other BDSM newbies as per my recent personals ad (link below). Unfortunately that hasn't generated any leads as yet.

And so you post a promotion of your ad in other forums?

 

[Mindfondler]

And so you post a promotion of your ad in other forums?

I've deleted the link now, not to satisfy you, but to make it clear to all-comers that I didn't just start this thread as a vehicle to promote it. The ad is actually an example of what I've been trying to do (and it's an altruistic offer rather than a self-serving promotion), but it seems that's not obvious enough. See further my replacement red text in my original posting above.

I think you are being VERY quick to dismiss this as an an unanswered call.

Thanks for that! We'd better take that discussion to the other thread, though (see above).

Could it be possible to include another person? It sounds like you need a new sub.... Cheers

Thanks for your positive response. My wife and I agreed this morning that we're open to considering a wide range of options, and that's possibly one of them, although we'd need to do a lot of work together to establish whether we could both be comfortable with it.
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[Primalex]

I'm wondering whether there's another way to address my nurturing itch within the kink world. Obviously, it needs to be in a way that's agreeable to both my wife and me. We're not yet sure what that encompasses,

I doubt it's possible to make good suggestions with these preconditions. It's a bit like asking the world what my wife would like to have for dinner.

Anyway, no idea how it's in London, but we have a separate introduction meeting once a month, which is much more structured than the munch and is more like a moderated Q&A panel, with a handful of regulars and usually somewhere around 5-10 curious newcomers. So a mixture between AA and a Comic-Con panel.

If there is no such thing yet, you could start to organize this. People like this, because it's less private than meeting an unknown couple/person and the structure of the meeting reduces the awkwardness of a new social environment. Of course, you need people who can hold a conversation on their own for the panel, so a couple telling some stories about their start would be a good fallback for very timid crowds.

 

[Mindfondler]

I doubt it's possible to make good suggestions with these preconditions. It's a bit like asking the world what my wife would like to have for dinner.

All that I was expressing that we're open to considering any ideas, but that we'll only take up the ones that we're both happy about.

So, I might suggest pizza to you, without having to worry that you'll be offended if your wife doesn't like pizza.

Anyway, no idea how it's in London, but we have a separate introduction meeting once a month, which is much more structured than the munch and is more like a moderated Q&A panel, with a handful of regulars and usually somewhere around 5-10 curious newcomers. So a mixture between AA and a Comic-Con panel.

Thanks for that suggestion. I haven't seen anything like this in the listings for kink events near London. The closest that I've encountered was a workshop at the Sexpo exhibition in London, in which a speaker addressed questions about BDSM posed by a largely vanilla audience.

If there is no such thing yet, you could start to organize this. People like this, because it's less private than meeting an unknown couple/person and the structure of the meeting reduces the awkwardness of a new social environment. Of course, you need people who can hold a conversation on their own for the panel, so a couple telling some stories about their start would be a good fallback for very timid crowds.

I guess we could organise something like that. I'd be comfortable about speaking in front of an audience on this topic. It's considerably more of an undertaking than I was imagining, though. I was prepared for us to invest our own time and effort, but that would probably require us to put in money as well, with no guarantee of success.
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[NoCarbon]

At the same time, I'm finding it difficult to define my own ongoing kinky needs. Originally, my role was to introduce my wife to the world of BDSM but, now that I've done that, I'm left with a sense of emptiness. I thrive on playing a part in seeing others build their confidence and earn their wings -- nurturing people -- but my circumstances now mean that I have few opportunities to do so. I'm very happy that my wife no longer requires that support from me, but I'm feeling lost without a nurturing role.

I'm going to take a slightly different approach to this. (Forgive me if my analysis is a bit presumptuous.) I'm wondering if what appealed to you about the nurturing role wasn't exactly the nurturing as such, but rather the authority of the nurturer. You were the Tutor and she was the Student. As the person who was introducing her to new experiences, you were the person in charge.

Now that your wife has spread her wings, you're feeling that you've lost something of that authority, as if the student is no longer so dependent on the tutor. If this is what has left you feeling a little lost (and I only say if, as I don't know you and may be completely wrong), then maybe you don't need another newbie to tutor, you just need to find ways to recover that feeling of authority. You need to become the instructor again.

In other words, maybe what's needed is for you to exercise your imagination and get creative. That, of course, is easier said than done. But, by way of illustration, let me give you an example from my own experience:

I once noticed that a sub was getting a little casual with me. She was losing the habit of showing an appropriate respect. So I typed out a list of all the minor misbehaviour she had committed in the previous couple of days, printed it out on a sheet of paper, and had her read it aloud before she was punished for these minor offences.

The act of reading it aloud was very arousing for her and instantly reinstated her deference toward her master. It would not have had the same effect if I'd merely told her that her behaviour had been slipping lately. The act of her reading it aloud from a sheet of paper made it more formal and emphasized my authority.

So maybe you could dream up a few little 'tricks' of that sort to recreate your feeling of guiding and controlling her development as a submissive. Add an element to the role-play that places you in the role of Tutor and it may recreate the sense of nurturance that you've been missing lately. It may sound rather artificial and contrived, but with luck you may find that she'll love it as much as you do. The sub I had at the time certainly did.

Just a suggestion in case it might help.

 

[Litforclit]

Have you considered taking on more of a Daddy Dom type role? She doesn't need to be the typical "little girl" and go into "little girl space", you could find your own way. What ever works for you.

 

[Mindfondler]

Thanks very much to NoCarbon and Litforclit for those thoughts.

I'm going to take a slightly different approach to this. (Forgive me if my analysis is a bit presumptuous.)

I don't consider it presumptuous at all! I understand that you can only go on what I posted, making your own assumptions and inferences to fill in the gaps. I appreciate very much you taking the time to offer your analysis.

I'm wondering if what appealed to you about the nurturing role wasn't exactly the nurturing as such, but rather the authority of the nurturer. You were the Tutor and she was the Student. As the person who was introducing her to new experiences, you were the person in charge.

Now that your wife has spread her wings, you're feeling that you've lost something of that authority, as if the student is no longer so dependent on the tutor. If this is what has left you feeling a little lost (and I only say if, as I don't know you and may be completely wrong), then maybe you don't need another newbie to tutor, you just need to find ways to recover that feeling of authority. You need to become the instructor again.

I think you're correct! Whilst I don't have a "pushy" need to be in charge, I value myself based on the lead, support and guidance that I can provide. That's a kind of "soft" authority, I guess.

In other words, maybe what's needed is for you to exercise your imagination and get creative. That, of course, is easier said than done. But, by way of illustration, let me give you an example from my own experience:

I once noticed that a sub was getting a little casual with me. She was losing the habit of showing an appropriate respect. So I typed out a list of all the minor misbehaviour she had committed in the previous couple of days, printed it out on a sheet of paper, and had her read it aloud before she was punished for these minor offences.

The act of reading it aloud was very arousing for her and instantly reinstated her deference toward her master. It would not have had the same effect if I'd merely told her that her behaviour had been slipping lately. The act of her reading it aloud from a sheet of paper made it more formal and emphasized my authority.

So maybe you could dream up a few little 'tricks' of that sort to recreate your feeling of guiding and controlling her development as a submissive. Add an element to the role-play that places you in the role of Tutor and it may recreate the sense of nurturance that you've been missing lately. It may sound rather artificial and contrived, but with luck you may find that she'll love it as much as you do. The sub I had at the time certainly did.

Just a suggestion in case it might help.

Thanks. I understand the point that you're making. I'll need to be even more creative than your example, though, as I'll explain below.

Have you considered taking on more of a Daddy Dom type role? She doesn't need to be the typical "little girl" and go into "little girl space", you could find your own way. What ever works for you.

The difficulty is that, after several months spent understanding and re-defining ourselves, my wife no longer identifies herself as a sub.
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[NoCarbon]

The difficulty is that, after several months spent understanding and re-defining ourselves, my wife no longer identifies herself as a sub.

Ah . . . well . . . yes, that is a pretty severe difficulty. No amount of "creativity" is going to solve that problem. You might have to conclude that Plan B has failed and there's nothing to do except return to Plan A (i.e. your original idea).

 

[faithlessmaiden]

The difficulty is that, after several months spent understanding and re-defining ourselves, my wife no longer identifies herself as a sub.
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What does your wife identify as now? Can your needs be incorporated into what she identifies with now?

 

[Mindfondler]

Ah . . . well . . . yes, that is a pretty severe difficulty. No amount of "creativity" is going to solve that problem. You might have to conclude that Plan B has failed and there's nothing to do except return to Plan A (i.e. your original idea).

I tend to agree. At the very least, I think I need to keep pursuing other options to satisfy my need to nurture, as I feel that it's a core part of my identity. Unfortunately, I'm still struggling to get even the slightest nibble of interest. I'm deeply disappointed by that. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised, as I'm relatively new to the BDSM scene and it would be quite a stretch for someone who is shy anyway to approach a relative stranger for support.

What does your wife identify as now? Can your needs be incorporated into what she identifies with now?

That's the rub! We're both still in a state of flux, trying to define ourselves more clearly. My wife isn't sure how she now identifies herself, but she's fairly certain that sub isn't part of it. There's the added difficulty, of course, that individuals are three-dimensional and cannot always be fitted into boxes defined by labels such as "sub".

I hope that I don't sound too negative. We're both in good spirits and continuing to support each other with our self-discovery and mutual development. The tricky part is that we don't have all of the answers between ourselves.
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[SpunThings]

I tend to agree. At the very least, I think I need to keep pursuing other options to satisfy my need to nurture, as I feel that it's a core part of my identity. Unfortunately, I'm still struggling to get even the slightest nibble of interest. I'm deeply disappointed by that. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised, as I'm relatively new to the BDSM scene and it would be quite a stretch for someone who is shy anyway to approach a relative stranger for support.


That's the rub! We're both still in a state of flux, trying to define ourselves more clearly. My wife isn't sure how she now identifies herself, but she's fairly certain that sub isn't part of it. There's the added difficulty, of course, that individuals are three-dimensional and cannot always be fitted into boxes defined by labels such as "sub".

I hope that I don't sound too negative. We're both in good spirits and continuing to support each other with our self-discovery and mutual development. The tricky part is that we don't have all of the answers between ourselves.
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What did you do pre-BDSM to fulfill this?

 

[Mindfondler]

What did you do pre-BDSM to fulfill this?

I've fathered two children from birth to adult ages, and I previously held a management role that involved mentoring junior staff. I haven't found the same job opportunity in recent years, and I'm not intending to have any more children!
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[SpunThings]

I've fathered two children from birth to adult ages, and I previously held a management role that involved mentoring junior staff. I haven't found the same job opportunity in recent years, and I'm not intending to have any more children!
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Just problem solving, and this is obviously leaving the realm of kink, but what about mentoring a teen in something like Big Brothers Big Sisters? You could still keep an eye out in the kink world for mentoring relationships too.

 

[Mindfondler]

Just problem solving, and this is obviously leaving the realm of kink, but what about mentoring a teen in something like Big Brothers Big Sisters? You could still keep an eye out in the kink world for mentoring relationships too.

Thanks for the suggestion. It's something that I'm looking at in parallel with the BDSM strand of my thinking. I've been considering a role in teaching as I have quite a few scarce and highly sought after skills, but that would require me to take quite a lengthy and poorly-paid journey in order to achieve the requisite teaching qualifications.
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[SpunThings]

Thanks for the suggestion. It's something that I'm looking at in parallel with the BDSM strand of my thinking. I've been considering a role in teaching as I have quite a few scarce and highly sought after skills, but that would require me to take quite a lengthy and poorly-paid journey in order to achieve the requisite teaching qualifications.
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Don't I know it. I got a teaching degree, so I know first hand people certainly don't go into teaching for the money.

Another possibility is participating in online discussions. There is no end of people asking for advice, and help. Are you on Fetlife? It can be a bit more drama-filled than this forum, but it's also more active. Check out the Novices & Newbies group, among others.

 

[Mindfondler]

Another possibility is participating in online discussions. There is no end of people asking for advice, and help. Are you on Fetlife? It can be a bit more drama-filled than this forum, but it's also more active. Check out the Novices & Newbies group, among others.

I am on FetLife. I posted something similar there but with no luck (see my original post here). I don't think I'm alone in finding it difficult to attract attention on FetLife, as it isn't really intended for that purpose. I considered starting a thread in the "Novices & Newbies" group, but I checked first with the moderator who indicated that it would be considered as a personals advert, and therefore not acceptable in there.
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[SpunThings]

I am on FetLife. I posted something similar there but with no luck (see my original post here). I don't think I'm alone in finding it difficult to attract attention on FetLife, as it isn't really intended for that purpose. I considered starting a thread in the "Novices & Newbies" group, but I checked first with the moderator who indicated that it would be considered as a personals advert, and therefore not acceptable in there.
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I'm actually talking about participating in active discussions as a contributor.

 

[Mindfondler]

I'm actually talking about participating in active discussions as a contributor.

OK. I've been doing that as well. It gives me some satisfaction, but it's an ephemeral thrill. Group discussions tend to move on quickly, and it's frustrating that useful contributions tend to be lost to future individuals seeking similar advice, as there's no useful search facility on FetLife.
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[CutieMouse]

I checked your profile before responding, and it looks like you and your wife are interesting in finding someone to both dominate [as an option]?

If that is the case, and your wife has discovered she enjoys the PYL side of things, then I'd suggest the struggle boils down to feeling like the student no longer NEEDS the master because the common meme is that dominants mentor and submissives get mentored.

There's no rule that says a PYL can't mentor/guide/develop/nurture another PYL. In fact, in some circles, it's probably recommended. Is it possible that 6 months down the road, upon the realization she's not comfortable with the submissive label, that THAT realization (and dependence on the label/assumption that PYLs nurture pyls) is what's getting in the way of your continuing development as a nurturing force in the relationship?


*PYL - Pick Your Lael - Top, Dominant, Master, Grand Lord Pooh-bah, etc
*pyl - bottom, submissive, slave, queen of the unworthy, etc

 

[Mindfondler]

Thanks very much for your thoughts, CutieMouse!

I checked your profile before responding, and it looks like you and your wife are interesting in finding someone to both dominate [as an option]?

It's an option that we've been considering as a potential way of killing two birds with one stone. I wonder whether my wife might enjoy topping more if she does it under my direction, which in turn gives me a nurturing role with a Dom-ish dimension.

My wife is willing to give the Double Domming idea a try, but it's difficult for us to know how we would get started on it, given that we're both relative newbies to BDSM. We wouldn't be keen to work on a random sub with no prior connection, or an inexperienced sub who might find the set-up intimidating, but on the other hand I don't see what an established sub would gain from it.

If that is the case, and your wife has discovered she enjoys the PYL side of things, then I'd suggest the struggle boils down to feeling like the student no longer NEEDS the master because the common meme is that dominants mentor and submissives get mentored.

There's no rule that says a PYL can't mentor/guide/develop/nurture another PYL. In fact, in some circles, it's probably recommended. Is it possible that 6 months down the road, upon the realization she's not comfortable with the submissive label, that THAT realization (and dependence on the label/assumption that PYLs nurture pyls) is what's getting in the way of your continuing development as a nurturing force in the relationship?

I take your point about PYLs mentoring other PYLs. I think our fundamental difficulty is that my nurturing itch remains constant, but my wife is still struggling to establish her kinky drivers and needs, let alone which side of the PYL/pyl slash she occupies. It's therefore problematical for me at the moment to define a stable nurturing role for myself in relation to her.

I hope that makes sense. It's a confusing situation for both of us!
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[faithlessmaiden]

It's a confusing situation for both of us!
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I think you may have your answer. It sounds like both of you need to figure out your 'label' and needs first. From there you can decide if you want to attempt double Dom/ming or how you want your relationship to grow. It's fantastic that you both support each other's growth, but maybe more growth needs to happen before moving onto the next person/project?

 

[Mindfondler]

I think you may have your answer. It sounds like both of you need to figure out your 'label' and needs first. From there you can decide if you want to attempt double Dom/ming or how you want your relationship to grow. It's fantastic that you both support each other's growth, but maybe more growth needs to happen before moving onto the next person/project?

Belated thanks for this!

Since I last posted, my wife and I have done a lot more exploring and talking. We're now much clearer in our own minds (and each others) about our boundaries -- at least, as they currently stand.

As a result, I'm starting a gentle search for a local platonic sub. I'm not in a rush! I imagine that a suitable arrangement is most likely to evolve gradually from connections that I've made over time at munches and other events. I've posted more details on Fetlife so that those who know me there are aware and can offer any suggestions.
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