Utah Wakes Up

[4est_4est_Gump]

Votes to repeal 17th Amendment.

Good for them!

Its sponsor, Sen. Al Jackson, R-Highland, says electing senators by the state Senate is needed because no branch of the federal government now represents the needs of state governments. A change would force senators to do that.

"Today, senators are more beholden to special interest groups than to their states" because those interests give them money for reelection, Jackson said.

He added, "It's time for our senators to come home every weekend and take direction from this body and from the House and the governor on how they should vote in the upcoming week."​

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christ...enate-votes-to-repeal-17th-amendment-n2124613

 

[Sean]

So the Utah legislature don't understand how the constitution works?

 

[Wrong Element]

You have to be pretty far gone ideologically to believe that a movement to give more power to politicians and less power to voters will be popular with those same voters.

No chance.

 

[richard_daily]

You have to be pretty far gone ideologically to believe that a movement to give more power to politicians and less power to voters will be popular with those same voters.

No chance.

You're talking about AJ, so... well... yup.

 

[Disgustipated]

You realize AJ rarely reads past the headlines, right?

 

[BotanyBoy]

AJ....Mr.IhateGovernment the libertarian wants to give the government more power...LMFAO

 

[RobDownSouth]

Votes to repeal 17th Amendment.

Good for them!

Its sponsor, Sen. Al Jackson, R-Highland, says electing senators by the state Senate is needed because no branch of the federal government now represents the needs of state governments. A change would force senators to do that.

"Today, senators are more beholden to special interest groups than to their states" because those interests give them money for reelection, Jackson said.

He added, "It's time for our senators to come home every weekend and take direction from this body and from the House and the governor on how they should vote in the upcoming week."​

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christ...enate-votes-to-repeal-17th-amendment-n2124613

Grandstandin' at it's finest! "Please Mister Federal Gummint, repeal that 17th Amendment! In Joseph Smith's name we beseech you! Derp without End, Amen!"

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

So the Utah legislature don't understand how the constitution works?

Apparently neither does most of the "right", that or they really believe that it's "Just a goddamned piece of paper" as Dubya is alleged to have said.

 

[Que]

So the Utah legislature don't understand how the constitution works?

What, exstly, is unconstitutional about using the constitutionally provided provisions for amending or repealing amendments?

 

[Sean]

What, exstly, is unconstitutional about using the constitutionally provided provisions for amending or repealing amendments?

You do realise one state can't unilaterally abrogate from the constitution, right?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You have to be pretty far gone ideologically to believe that a movement to give more power to politicians and less power to voters will be popular with those same voters.

No chance.

The voters, the mob, they have their own separate House of Representatives.

The main point here is that Zimbabwe has more representation in DC than does Iowa since the Senate now also represents the mob, so that their is no check on their passions. The reasoning for this is elucidated very clearly in Federalist. The reason the Federal Government encroaches is that it bribes the mob and they bribe it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The voters, the mob, they have their own separate House of Representatives.

The main point here is that Zimbabwe has more representation in DC than does Iowa since the Senate now also represents the mob, so that their is no check on their passions. The reasoning for this is elucidated very clearly in Federalist. The reason the Federal Government encroaches is that it bribes the mob and they bribe it.

Sounding like a socialist there Mr.Give the evil government more power.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

AJ....Mr.IhateGovernment the libertarian wants to give the government more power...LMFAO

That is the wrong reading, probably purposeful, of the issue. This gives the government less power by checking the "enthusiasm" of the mob to vote itself the largess of the Treasury and taxes upon any minority outside of the tyranny of the majority. For the same reason the Justices of the Supreme Court are given lifetime tenure, to protect them from the unwashed dumb masses, the Senate was made immune to the populist flavor of the moment by being answerable only to the governments that appointed them; they were to be more like ambassadors, the saucer that cools the coffee as Sheets Byrd used to put it.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Sounding like a socialist there Mr.Give the evil government more power.

Repetition does not equal truth.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What, exstly, is unconstitutional about using the constitutionally provided provisions for amending or repealing amendments?

I guess he's still pissed off about the repeal of Prohibition...

Note that Prohibition, a populist, freedom denying amendment, came upon the heels of the adoption of the 17th...

 

[RobDownSouth]

Repetition does not equal truth.

Quotin' for irony.

Fair warning, Chief, I'ma gonna rub your situational half-breed nose in this the next time you go "but...but..BATISTAT!"

 

[Disgustipated]

Repetition does not equal truth.

Sorta like when you quoted yourself and your totally wrong position against Spidey for the past week? You really do fly your Hypocrite Flag freely, Skippy.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That is the wrong reading, probably purposeful, of the issue. This gives the government less power by checking the "enthusiasm" of the mob

the saucer that cools the coffee as Sheets Byrd used to put it.

Sell that steaming pile to someone else I'm not buying, you and Byrd are both full of shit, typical socialist.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Apparently neither does most of the "right", that or they really believe that it's "Just a goddamned piece of paper" as Dubya is alleged to have said.

For as much as I wished he had said it, he did not.

http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-the-constitution-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

For as much as I wished he had said it, he did not.

http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-the-constitution-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/

Which is why I said "alleged to have said". The current crop of GOP politicians in the Senate seem to believe exactly that though.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Sell that steaming pile to someone else I'm not buying, you and Byrd are both full of shit, typical socialist.

Well, is your basal assumption that no state may hold a Senatorial election if the 17th is repealed?



How Socialist is giving states the choice?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Well, is your basal assumption that no state may hold a Senatorial election if the 17th is repealed?

No my basal assumption is that of the no compromise conservative!

Giving the state more power over the individual is socialism.

How Socialist is giving states the choice?

We the people....not State power and fuck the people.

Besides it's not like conservatives care about states rights as a principal or anything like that.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

What, exstly, is unconstitutional about using the constitutionally provided provisions for amending or repealing amendments?

Since when do constitutional amendments originate with a state legislature? State legislatures can call for a constitutional convention if they can manage to get two thirds of the rest of the states to also vote for one. Only THEN they can suggest constitutional amendments (including amendments to repeal existing amendments) be considered for ratification. Those must be approved and ratified by three fourths of the state's legislatures.

there are two ways laid out in the Constitution whereby amendments can be made:
2/3 of both houses of Congress vote to propose and amendment
2/3 of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention

No single state can vote to repeal a constitutional amendment.
They can, but it means nothing outside of a constitutional convention. It's meaningless showboating and ultimately a waste of time nd taxpayer money.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Well, is your basal assumption that no state may hold a Senatorial election if the 17th is repealed?



How Socialist is giving states the choice?

That's a big if. Utah's vote is meaningless.

there are only two ways that any amendment can be repealed or added. These were laid out above.

I'm not surprised that you're cheering a meaningless waste of time on the part of Utah's state legislature. Or that you're cheering on the attempt by the State's Legislature to take away the power to elect their senators and take it for themselves.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Well, is your basal assumption that no state may hold a Senatorial election if the 17th is repealed?



How Socialist is giving states the choice?

No my basal assumption is that of the no compromise conservative!

Giving the state more power over the individual is socialism.



We the people....not State power and fuck the people.

Besides it's not like conservatives care about states rights as a principal or anything like that.

This is utter nonsense.

What you imply is that a legislature elected by the people of the state is not empowered to appoint a Senator? Do you hate the Republic that much? Do you really want the pernicious Democracy of the Founder's fear?

It leads to Socialism. Always has and always will.