Britain in or out of European Union?

[oggbashan]

Today David Cameron, the UK's Prime Minister, announced the date for a referendum on whether Britain should stay in or leave the EU.

The arguments started years ago. For the next few months UK citizens will be enduring endless discussions about whether it is better to stay in a slightly modified arrangement or whether to leave completely.

Many people in other European countries would like the opportunity to vote whether to continue in the EU or not, but only UK voters will have a choice.

What do you think?

If you can/could vote, would you vote stay in, or leave?

Why?

Does it matter to you?

 

[Penuche]

In, because it simplifies trade and legal dealings etc with the nearest countries to the UK.

It matters to me because I live in the UK and sometimes go to mainland Europe.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I'm a free trader. Europe needs to become more unified economically to compete with the big population economies, US, Brazil, China and India. The channel should keep some or most of the illegal immigrant problems out which seem to drive nationalistic ideas.

In many ways the UK (read England) has an exceptional opinion of itself.

 

[Liar]

In, and stop faffing about and join Shengen too.

 

[Iceprincess12]

I like in and out. I like some Uk accents (British posh/proper/london-not cockney), I like that the UK is the kink capital of the world. I like that you offer tea at the Savoy or Ritz. I like your quiet reserve and manners. I like James Bond.

I forgot the question, something about leaving. If it doesn't affect British men wearing beautiful suits...then I don't really care.

 

[oggbashan]

I'm a free trader. Europe needs to become more unified economically to compete with the big population economies, US, Brazil, China and India. The channel should keep some or most of the illegal immigrant problems out which seem to drive nationalistic ideas.

In many ways the UK (read England) has an exceptional opinion of itself.

Part of the argument for 'Out' is that the EU is economically incompetent and its policies and regulations are AGAINST free trade.

Europe as a continent ought to be able to compete with other large economic blocs but it is said that the EU hinders, not helps, competition.

The UK government really wants the whole EU to change to make all the countries in the EU better able to compete in world markets. The UK is one of the most competent economies in Europe (not that it is great compared with other countries outside the EU) but others could be as good or better but the EU and the Euro are seen as obstacles, not advantages.

There are many voters throughout Europe who want change in EU institutions and more economic freedom, but the EU seems unwilling to consider that something might be wrong. When citizens vote against a treaty their country is told to vote again. That stinks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_European_Constitution_referendum

The referendum will be the UK in or out. What it should be is a Europe-wide referendum on whether the EU as a whole should be more responsive to its citizens' concerns.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I like some Uk accents (British posh/proper/london-not cockney),

Theur mean fake don accents. Ruddy Toffs! 'n those sa far sahth thee meight an' orl be French.

 

[oggbashan]

Theur mean fake don accents. Ruddy Toffs! 'n those sa far sahth thee meight an' orl be French.

Of course those of us in the South might as well be French. We're descended from the Norman Conquerors, not like 't peasants up North.

 

[ishtat]

Out definitely. Europe has far too many layers of government already.

The EU will fail anyway, the day France has to pay in 1 Euro more than she takes out.

 

[Iceprincess12]

Theur mean fake don accents. Ruddy Toffs! 'n those sa far sahth thee meight an' orl be French.

I love French Canadian accents the best. Montreal s'il vous plâit. French kissing (yes please), french fries (poutine), french dressing (and undressing), french silk (all tied up in knots)...

Off to dream

 

[Hard_Rom]

Part of the argument for 'Out' is that the EU is economically incompetent and its policies and regulations are AGAINST free trade.

Europe as a continent ought to be able to compete with other large economic blocs but it is said that the EU hinders, not helps, competition.

The UK government really wants the whole EU to change to make all the countries in the EU better able to compete in world markets. The UK is one of the most competent economies in Europe (not that it is great compared with other countries outside the EU) but others could be as good or better but the EU and the Euro are seen as obstacles, not advantages.

There are many voters throughout Europe who want change in EU institutions and more economic freedom, but the EU seems unwilling to consider that something might be wrong. When citizens vote against a treaty their country is told to vote again. That stinks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_European_Constitution_referendum

The referendum will be the UK in or out. What it should be is a Europe-wide referendum on whether the EU as a whole should be more responsive to its citizens' concerns.

Agreed.

I'm not a supporter of the Scottish independence movement for similar reasons. Must be a way to rework the Union and make a few more happy(can't please everyone). Hard to do with the much larger population of England. Bound to have a much louder voice.

Globalization is a reality. Not sure if I like it or not. Canada could end up as just a resource country. Which is bad when commodity prices crash. An economy that makes things not just digs them out of the ground is a more advanced economy.

An internal economy of consumer goods manufacturing cushions you to some extent against economic uncertainty outside your country. Canada is tied to US economy heavily. As our biggest customer by far, they suffer we suffer. Most Canadian politicians see benefits with much greater ties to China. Even if their politics make the US look enlightened. As a born Englishman, I would much prefer closer ties to UK and Europe.

With an East/West pipeline we could ship more oil and NG to Europe. Their politics and human rights make them a better choice of trading partners.

Canada looked at Aus/NZ free trade pact before signing on to NAFTA. Similarities with Australia having such a huge population compared to NZ. Yanks don't like NAFTA due to Mexico not Canada. With companies hurrying to build plants down south. We feel same to some extent about the US. And their population gives them huge economic clout. Really hard to stand fast on your principles.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Of course those of us in the South might as well be French. We're descended from the Norman Conquerors, not like 't peasants up North.

I'm a Percy (derived name). Earls of bludday Northumberland since William the Bastard (or close enough, maybe Rufus). Peasant!

 

[oggbashan]

I'm a Percy (derived name). Earls of bludday Northumberland since William the Bastard (or close enough, maybe Rufus). Peasant!

I'm descended from Henry II, the Plantagents, and through them the Norse God Woden/Odin (and apparently the Roman Goddess Venus and the Egyptian Gods Isis and Osiris). My relations OWNED most of Europe. Peasant!

PS On my paternal side, I'm descended from a tribe that defeated Caesar's legions in what is now Belgium (and had to cross to East Anglia when he returned with more troops!).

 

[LiteTouch10]

I am very concerned. Was a unionist from the time Ted heath started discussions. We should have joined and help build from the beginning. But constrained to 12.

 

[oggbashan]

The UK is now the second largest net contributor to the EU (after Germany) and the amount will increase because of the UK's economic strength.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ions-Brussels-leap-3-1billion-five-years.html

 

[domroger]

Out .
Despite the creation of an European Parliament it is the unelected European Commission that pulls the strings .

 

[Hard_Rom]

I am very concerned. Was a unionist from the time Ted heath started discussions. We should have joined and help build from the beginning. But constrained to 12.

I agree. EU may have looked or worked differently today. Different as in better.

Hard to complain too much as a late comer to the show.

 

[DeYaKen]

Back in 1975, I voted to stay in. My reason for doing that then is biggest influence on my vote now. The European Coal and Steel Community which later became the EEC was formed, not just for trade but to bind the economies of countries together so they could never again go to war with each other. In this, it has been astonishingly successful.

The modern EU has developed into something more and it wants to become a United States of Europe. Once again I have no objection to that because it makes war even more unlikely. What I do object to is that in the Forty Years since the last referendum the EU has not addressed the issue of democracy. As domroger says it is the Commission that runs the EU and they are appointed by the governments of the member states. Instead of one man one vote, it is one country one vote. A country with a population of 5 million has the same voting rights as a country with a population of 150 million. That alone makes me want to get out.

What will happen if Britain votes to come out? There will be more negotiations, and we will be made to vote again, just like the Irish.

 

[stickygirl]

I'd like to see some facts to make an informed decision, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. We get lied to by our own politicians, and get even bigger lies from unelected Eurocrats.

I'm irritated by the Daily Mail attitude pointing at migrants being paid family benefits for their kids back home - sounds shocking, but exactly how much does that mount to - a couple of 100,000s = small change.
How much are the Eurohogs snaffling away from the Brussels trough = millions and millions?
So what about the Europe trade benefits? = we're in a global economy.
Human Rights being lost through leaving Europe? = bullshit.
You can't run a country like it was a football team.
Too much scaremongering, not enough facts. Fucking politicians. Same same.

 

[Rachel_X]

Out.
Being told what to do by someone that nobody in the country voted for is bad enough but add to that the blanket laws that they throw down without consideration for countries that aren't Germany and you just end up a mess.
Not to mention that they fined Intel for being too cheap and called it a 'win for the consumer'. A win that cost me extra money? Sounds like the only person that won is the tax man.

Once the UK leaves and Turkey joins, the EU will be tens of billions out of pocket and the whole thing will collapse. Not to mention that other countries will demand referendums and likely some of them will leave too.

 

[oggbashan]

I'd like to see some facts to make an informed decision, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. We get lied to by our own politicians, and get even bigger lies from unelected Eurocrats.

I'm irritated by the Daily Mail attitude pointing at migrants being paid family benefits for their kids back home - sounds shocking, but exactly how much does that mount to - a couple of 100,000s = small change.
How much are the Eurohogs snaffling away from the Brussels trough = millions and millions?
So what about the Europe trade benefits? = we're in a global economy.
Human Rights being lost through leaving Europe? = bullshit.
You can't run a country like it was a football team.
Too much scaremongering, not enough facts. Fucking politicians. Same same.

European migrant benefits are insignificant compared to our overall welfare bill for UK citizens. Most migrants from within the EU come here because they can get work, any work, and there are NO jobs for them in their countries. If you are young, fit, active and intelligent and want to work but live in Spain, Portugal, Greece and some other countries you are very unlikely to find a local job, any job at all. Some of the migrant workers in the UK in basic jobs are very highly qualified and motivated. The migrants and their work are one of the reasons why the UK's economy is better than some other European countries.

Eurohogs? The EU Parliament and Commission are incredibly expensive. Moving between three locations increases the cost:

The European Parliament has three places of work – Brussels (Belgium), the city of Luxembourg (Luxembourg) and Strasbourg (France). Luxembourg is home to the administrative offices (the 'General Secretariat'). Meetings of the whole Parliament ('plenary sessions') take place in Strasbourg and in Brussels. Committee meetings are held in Brussels.

Refugees? We (and Ireland) have already opted out of the Schengen Zone so there is no freedom of travel from within the zone to the UK. That's why there are refugee camps at Calais and Dunkerque. They can't travel legally to the UK.

Human Rights? Where was the Magna Carta signed? Abuse of human rights legislation? Blame the lawyers who look to use any loophole for their clients. Writing our own human rights legislation and opting out of the European Court of Human Rights might help stop criminals claiming their human rights are being ignored. BUT - we don't need to leave the EU to do that; and another BUT - even if we write our own human rights laws, the same lawyers will look to use loopholes in them.

 

[DeYaKen]

I'd like to see some facts to make an informed decision, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. We get lied to by our own politicians, and get even bigger lies from unelected Eurocrats.

I'm irritated by the Daily Mail attitude pointing at migrants being paid family benefits for their kids back home - sounds shocking, but exactly how much does that mount to - a couple of 100,000s = small change.
How much are the Eurohogs snaffling away from the Brussels trough = millions and millions?
So what about the Europe trade benefits? = we're in a global economy.
Human Rights being lost through leaving Europe? = bullshit.
You can't run a country like it was a football team.
Too much scaremongering, not enough facts. Fucking politicians. Same same.

Completely agree about the way the campaigns are being run. As for the Eurohogs, what makes you think that us coming out will cut our contribution. Both Norwegian and Swiss citizens pay more to the EU than British citizens do, and they both have to be part of the Schengen zone. This is all for the privilege of doing business without tariffs. If the EU won't budge on that for a country that has a surplus of both oil and gas, what makes anyone believe the EU will make an exception for the UK.

 

[DeYaKen]

Out.
Being told what to do by someone that nobody in the country voted for is bad enough but add to that the blanket laws that they throw down without consideration for countries that aren't Germany and you just end up a mess.
Not to mention that they fined Intel for being too cheap and called it a 'win for the consumer'. A win that cost me extra money? Sounds like the only person that won is the tax man.

Once the UK leaves and Turkey joins, the EU will be tens of billions out of pocket and the whole thing will collapse. Not to mention that other countries will demand referendums and likely some of them will leave too.

They also Banned expensive roaming charges for your mobile phone and told Microsoft that they could not stop people selling on surplus licences. This means you can move from XP to windows 10 for £19 instead of the £110 that Microsoft charge. It's swings and roundabouts.

In or out, if Britain wants to do tariff-free trade with the EU our contribution will not fall. (see my previous post.

 

[ishtat]

UK pays 9.6 Billion pounds more per annum to the EU than she gets back

Some deal!

 

[BotanyBoy]

UK pays 9.6 Billion pounds more per annum to the EU than she gets back

Some deal!

http://i.imgur.com/aFhWSah.gif