Nationalizing pharmaceuticals would drop drug prices dramatically.

[LJ_Reloaded]

Take the profit motive out of the game, and rev up production on the same level as bullets.

Conservatives promptly go cry in the corner as drug prices utterly tank.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/10/b...=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article

enators from both parties on Wednesday denounced huge overnight price increases for decades-old drugs that have been made by some pharmaceutical companies lately, calling them unconscionable and detrimental to patients.

“These companies are to ethical pharmaceutical companies as a loan shark is to a bank,” said Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, quoting an unnamed industry specialist with whom she had spoken. She discussed the matter at a hearing of the Senate’s Special Committee on Aging, which she leads.

The hearing focused on two companies in particular, Turing Pharmaceuticals, which acquired an old drug for a parasitic infection and raised the price to $750 a pill from $13.50, and Valeant Pharmaceuticals International, which has sharply increased the prices of various drugs it has acquired, including two used by hospitals to treat serious heart conditions.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

My meds have been free after meeting my deductible in like may.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Take the profit motive out of the game,

LMFAO, who the fuck is going to do that? You? You gonna go make pills for everyone just because it's the right thing to do?

Nationalizing pharmaceuticals would drop drug prices dramatically.

No it won't, not any more than ACA dropped HC prices LOL

The US government telling companies they couldn't bill the tax payer for 500 fuckin' dollar aspirins and 10,000 dollar inhalers that cost 34 cents and 10 bucks ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE PLANET is the only thing stopping drug prices.

As long as pharma can go buy the senate committee in charge of approving 500 dollar aspirins continues to do so the american people will continue to be fucked in the ass when it comes time to breaking bread for pills.

Further more Republicans would NOT be the ones crying, big pharma/HC is an ultra super majority DEMOCRAT circle jerk you fucking moron LOL .

 

[Doom_Guy]

Drug companies exploit human illness and suffering for profit.

Their business model is very simple, if you're not sick, then they aren't making any money.

There was one pharmaceutical giant that charged $700 per AIDS pill.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Sure...like when Obama nationalized healthcare. What could go wrong?

What needs to be done is to create a law preventing pharmaceutical companies from gouging people for medication that had it's patent expired. Either that or allow companies to make generic versions of the pill. From what I remember, that douche Martin Shkreli jacked the price of of a 60-year-old drug from $13.50 to $750. He spent 50 million to have the sole rights to it.

I've read that due to the massive government hurdles that are in place due to the FDA, it takes years and between 1-3 billion to get a new drug to market.

Here's a page from Peter Schiff's book where he talks about how fucked up the FDA is.

 

[Hard_Rom]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/infantile-seizures-drug-1.3318183
2,000% price hike for infant seizure drug called 'absurd'
Price goes from $33.05 per vial to $680

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/valeant-pharmaceuticals-price-hikes-1.3248265
Valeant Pharmaceuticals' drug price hikes in crosshairs of U.S. Congress

U.S. drug company sues Canada for trying to lower cost of $700K-a-year drug
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/u-s-d...g-to-lower-cost-of-700k-a-year-drug-1.3242172

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/how-p...-of-the-world-s-most-expensive-drug-1.3125251
How pharmaceutical company Alexion set the price of the world's most expensive drug

 

[Hard_Rom]

Sure...like when Obama nationalized healthcare. What could go wrong?

Nothing (well almost nothing) wrong with a nationalized healthcare system. The US version is so watered down as to be ineffectual at best.

http://www.epi.org/publication/webfeatures_snapshots_20071205/
Canada’s health system beats U.S. in cost and results

When the Clinton administration tackled health care reform in 1993, Canada’s national health care system—which operates without a private insurance industry—was held up as a model by progressives and a disaster by conservatives. The United States rejected any positive lessons from the Canadian single-payer model in 1993, and we are living with the results of that decision today.

... the cost gap between the United States and Canada has only widened since 1993, and per capita health care expenditures in the United States are now almost double those in Canada ($6,401 vs. $3,359). Canada’s per capita health expenditures rose about 65% from 1993 to 2005, while costs in the United States rose by over 90%.

Yet infant mortality in the United States is higher and life expectancy at birth is less than in Canada. It is also noteworthy that despite Canada’s much lower expenditures on health care, Canadians consult with physicians far more often than do Americans. The average number of physician consultations per capita was 6.0 in Canada, versus 3.8 in the United States.

US numbers are PRE-Obamacare.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Nothing (well almost nothing) wrong with a nationalized healthcare system. The US version is so watered down as to be ineffectual at best.

Well, besides lying to the American people in order to get it passed, the CBO estimated that it will put taxpayers in the red to the tune of around 2 trillion dollars over the next ten years...so there's that.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Well, besides lying to the American people in order to get passed, the CBO estimated that it will put taxpayers in the red to the tune of around 2 trillion dollars over the next ten years...so there's that.

That's because it is a watered down half ass effort. All Obama could get past the healthcare insurance lobbyists. You need a very liberal state to enact a proper one. See how it goes and then buy in. Here in Canada a lefty provincial government went first. When doctors saw how much they could save not going after unpaid bills they signed up real fast.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Drug companies exploit human illness and suffering for profit.

Their business model is very simple, if you're not sick, then they aren't making any money.

There was one pharmaceutical giant that charged $700 per AIDS pill.

They only charge that much because at the end of some paperwork trail some dickhead in DC approved 700/pill funding.

IF these companies didn't have such astronomical subsidies they would have to charge something people could afford or they would be the fuck out of bidnizz. Unless that's a monthly pill at 700 bucks a pop there simply isn't a customer base for any given disease at those kinds of prices.

Sure...like when Obama nationalized healthcare.

Obama did NOT nationalize our HC system...that would be evil socialism and only cost 1/3- 1/2 what we are and have been paying like every other 1st world nation on the planet.

What Obama did was is he pimped the 99% out to the insurance/supplies/phama companies, M'urican crony capitalism at it's finest. Those industries at large are gang fucking America for every penny they can, straight up evilcorp style. ACA is a 1% dick up Americas ass.

The only reason Republicans didn't support it is because those industries don't lobby Republicans with uber insano mega billions in campaign contributions.

 

[Aella_]

God help the poor from Au/Nz/ and the other countries when the TPP comes into place in 2016.
The end of affordable medications.

 

[Hard_Rom]

God help the poor from Au/Nz/ and the other countries when the TPP comes into place in 2016.
The end of affordable medications.

Hasn't been much talk about Pharmas and TPP up here. Not much talk at all. Generally we favour free trade being a huge exporting country. NAFTA is here to stay so why not have free trade with everybody. Liberals will probably sign on to Conservative negotiated deal. Aussie PM was pumping Justin's hand and prompting him to sign the TPP, while they were in Malta for the Commonwealth meetings.

 

[Aella_]

Hasn't been much talk about Pharmas and TPP up here. Not much talk at all. Generally we favour free trade being a huge exporting country. NAFTA is here to stay so why not have free trade with everybody. Liberals will probably sign on to Conservative negotiated deal. Aussie PM was pumping Justin's hand and prompting him to sign the TPP, while they were in Malta for the Commonwealth meetings.

1.These admin. things and economics evade me in general, but I saw a lot of talks on youtube around this. Apparently a lot of americans were pissed off about the TPP, claiming that only 10% of the draft has to do with free trade, and 90% of the subtext is aimed at enforcing corporate control and patent laws. (or something like that, if I understood correctly). They were worried about the american working force being at risk of ending up with no protection re minimal wage due to this "free trade" with the Pacific poor countries, or something like this.

2.But as applied to the specific case of medications:
I think protection of intellectual property (patents, copyright) are an important and fair thing, in a lot of cases. But it becomes tricky when applied to the internet or medications.

Ie: Until now, as I understand it, India did not have those patent laws re drugs like the US did. So there was this paradox that Indi. (3rd world country) was able to manufacture a certain cancer drug at a fraction of the price from US (1st world country) so that their poor could afford it.
Which annoyed the drug company who funded the research that came up with the drug, cause it halved their profits.

But with the TPP in place: medicines will become more costly. I guess it won't be catastrophic for Au/Nz, but it will be for those more poor Pacific countries.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Should we organize National ObamaCare like the Veterans Administration system?

 

[Aella_]

Drug companies exploit human illness and suffering for profit.

Their business model is very simple, if you're not sick, then they aren't making any money.

There was one pharmaceutical giant that charged $700 per AIDS pill.

gosh, I'm so on a similar wavelength with some of Mike's views (apart from the HH thing, of course).

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That's right LT, once again as an economist, you have put your brilliance on display. Once the government takes over health care, then the whole can pay the taxes for the cheap drugs of the few. That's a win-win for everyone, since once we get to that point only the 1% will be paying taxes, of course.

:nods:

And let us pooh-pooh immediately the idea that without a profit motive that innovation will die! It will most assuredly thrive like never before because government can better direct the application of our new taxes raised into picking the needed cures and medicines, not just the ones that will make a lot of profit and cost an arm and a leg!



Without the government interventions, we would not have a thriving, job-producing and energy-saving domestic solar panel industry, not to mention algae-based fuels as well as vast farms of windmills providing us with fossil fuel independence and renewable energy.



By Allah's beard, we should appoint you the Beer-Summit Czar and allow you to also achieve world peace!

As an evil neocon Republican (probably Christian) conservative, I am humbled by the sheer simplicity and magnanimous majesty of the beautiful and brawny brains that have vested their best ideas here at Lit whereupon they are laying like pearls before swine for the world to swoop in and snap up for their own sweet salvation...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Drug companies exploit human illness and suffering for profit.

Their business model is very simple, if you're not sick, then they aren't making any money.

There was one pharmaceutical giant that charged $700 per AIDS pill.

Then make it illegal for them to make drugs...

:nods:

Put them all in jail!

The doctors too! I don't see them taking any damned vow of poverty! Exploiters!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Sure...like when Obama nationalized healthcare. What could go wrong?

What needs to be done is to create a law preventing pharmaceutical companies from gouging people for medication that had it's patent expired. Either that or allow companies to make generic versions of the pill. From what I remember, that douche Martin Shkreli jacked the price of of a 60-year-old drug from $13.50 to $750. He spent 50 million to have the sole rights to it.

I've read that due to the massive government hurdles that are in place due to the FDA, it takes years and between 1-3 billion to get a new drug to market.

Here's a page from Peter Schiff's book where he talks about how fucked up the FDA is.

The fallacy of the worst-case scenario in which the worst possible example of a group is found and then used as a stereotype of what the group consists of. It is the triumph of rhetorical bigotry over factual and evidential argument.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The presupposition to all these unicorn miracles is THE GOVERNMENT WILL DO A GOOD JOB running healthcare and making pills.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Better than any business!

:nods:

Government is always good, business is always bad. Why I'll bet LT doesn't even employ the artifice of the supermarket, he probably lives a hunter-gatherer existence and uses the skins and leaves to clothe himself. He eschews the roads and railways, traveling instead well-know paths from his mother's basement through the back yards of his neighbors to his happy hunting ground in the local (government) park (and preserve). This is where he hunts the mighty pomeranian for food and clothing!

​

 

[Whiskey1965]

Take the profit motive out of the game, and rev up production on the same level as bullets.

Conservatives promptly go cry in the corner as drug prices utterly tank.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/10/b...=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article

There's no profit in Space yet Obama gutted NASA, so that makes your theory fail!
Nationalizing stuff is what happens in no Republics and Non American places which then turns them into third world shit holes. so again your theory fails.
Remove Government TAXES from our lives will make things more affordable-example Obamacare Tax just made 90% of all helathcare plans unaffordable.
Remove BS lawsuits from medicine and watch the prices go down, profit is not a bad thing its people without morals choosing profit over peoples lives that are.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Should we organize National ObamaCare like the Veterans Administration system?

Yea....it's considerably better than "fuck you die in the streets" or the crony capitalist ObamaCare.

The presupposition to all these unicorn miracles is THE GOVERNMENT WILL DO A GOOD JOB running healthcare and making pills.

It will do a better job than the insurance companies have been and are doing now. Especially if the veteran hating RW would stop trying to destroy it every chance they get.

Remove Government TAXES from our lives will make things more affordable-example Obamacare Tax just made 90% of all helathcare plans unaffordable.

Well no shit, that's what we get for being good capitalist and giving insurance companies a seat at the law writing table.......had we gone full socialist we would be paying FAR LESS, or back to "Fuck you die in the street for being poor" (pure capitalist) and pay NOTHING. HC would not be that big of an issue.

But (R) wants "Fuck poor people let them die in the street" and (D) wants UHC (in theory) but neither will commit to making one or the other happen, because half assed chicken shits.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

By all means lets nationalize it.

But you better make sure you are happy with the drugs we have today. Because research for new drugs will all but die.

57% of all new drugs come from the USA...actually this number is much higher as many pharmaceutical companies are/have been buying foreign companies, just to change their situs and lower their taxes (see Allergan/Pfizer). So while a company like U.S.-based Auxilium Pharmaceuticals may be US based, it is now considered a Canadian company simply for tax purposes.

I would guess the real % of drugs developed by US companies is closer to 85%.

So sure....Let's nationalize it. No on wants a cure for cancer anyway.

http://www.xconomy.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/2014/09/Table.png

 

[BotanyBoy]

By all means lets nationalize it.

But you better make sure you are happy with the drugs we have today. Because research for new drugs will all but die.

No it won't...universities do the majority of the research which is totally separate funding the GOP wants to eliminate. And as long as the GOP isn't allowed to do that they could pick up the slack after these companies didn't have the US gov buying their 700 dollar pills anymore.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

No it won't...universities do the majority of the research which is totally separate funding the GOP wants to eliminate. And as long as the GOP isn't allowed to do that they could pick up the slack after these companies didn't have the US gov buying their 700 dollar pills anymore.

bullshit...

According to the study, pharmaceutical companies discovered 58% of new drugs, while biotechnology companies came up with 18%. Universities that transferred their discoveries first to biotech*nology companies got credit for 16% of the drugs, and universities that transferred their discoveries first to pharmaceutical companies were responsible for 8% of the drugs.

http://www.nature.com/nrd/journal/v9/n11/full/nrd3251.html