Is Porn Really Bad?

[JackLuis]

How Stoya took on James Deen and broke the porn industry's silence

When a porn star says that she has been raped, she faces the idea that her job means she had it coming. Stoya – in her first interview since accusing James Deen – and a chorus of adult performers argue that the problem in porn isn’t the sex: it’s the culture

This is a fascinating study of sociological and culture clash.

It poses the question, how do you rape a porn-star? Of course the answer is just like anyone else.

What was/will be the result?

 

[SusanJillParker]

How Stoya took on James Deen and broke the porn industry's silence



This is a fascinating study of sociological and culture clash.

It poses the question, how do you rape a porn-star? Of course the answer is just like anyone else.

What was/will be the result?

There's always been that double standard when it comes to woman, which is why so few woman report that they were raped.

Now, it comes to light that there's a huge backlog of processing rape evidence. If the shoe was on the other foot and the man was raped instead of the woman, they'd process their rape kit within the hour.

Just as it holds true for a porn star, the same question could be posed by a prostitute, call girl, or paid escort. How do you rape one of them. They deserve to be raped, right? They were just asking for it. Look how they're dressed.

Unfortunately, as the code word in the swinging lifestyle that "No," means no, too many men won't take no for an answer. Too many men want what they want when they want it and will suffer the repercussions of their bad decision later.

Women, even the strongest of women, will always be at men's mercy.

 

[Boxerwing]

There's always been that double standard when it comes to woman, which is why so few woman report that they were raped.

Now, it comes to light that there's a huge backlog of processing rape evidence. If the shoe was on the other foot and the man was raped instead of the woman, they'd process their rape kit within the hour.

Just as it holds true for a porn star, the same question could be posed by a prostitute, call girl, or paid escort. How do you rape one of them. They deserve to be raped, right? They were just asking for it. Look how they're dressed.

Unfortunately, as the code word in the swinging lifestyle that "No," means no, too many men won't take no for an answer. Too many men want what they want when they want it and will suffer the repercussions of their bad decision later.

Women, even the strongest of women, will always be at men's mercy.

I agree with you, mostly.

While I firmly believe that the grand majority of rape is man on woman, men can still get raped. And the problem I have with your reply (bolded) is that there is also stigma attached to men getting raped. I mean, who is going to believe a man saying they were raped? He's a man! He can take care of himself! Right? So how many men are actually going to report it or get examined? I mean, look at Woody Fox. One of his last tweets after he retired from the business was "Director @Laws_M (and team) pressured me take drugs and do acts I never wanted to do. making me feel raped. So long & fxxx you ". I'm firmly on the side that if you "feel raped" you have been. If this tweet had been made by a woman, there would have been more notice paid to it. I wonder how many other male porn stars feel the same?

 

[SusanJillParker]

I agree with you, mostly.

While I firmly believe that the grand majority of rape is man on woman, men can still get raped. And the problem I have with your reply (bolded) is that there is also stigma attached to men getting raped. I mean, who is going to believe a man saying they were raped? He's a man! He can take care of himself! Right? So how many men are actually going to report it or get examined? I mean, look at Woody Fox. One of his last tweets after he retired from the business was "Director @Laws_M (and team) pressured me take drugs and do acts I never wanted to do. making me feel raped. So long & fxxx you ". I'm firmly on the side that if you "feel raped" you have been. If this tweet had been made by a woman, there would have been more notice paid to it. I wonder how many other male porn stars feel the same?

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Men being raped, especially underage boys, was always swept under the rug until someone took on the Catholic church. Now everyone has a story to tell. They's still a stigma to it. Yet, few people talk to a professional about it. They'd rather drink, take drugs, commit suicide, or even become sexual predators themselves.

I think anyone who sexually abuses a child should be boiled in oil alive, just long enough to remove his skin.

I knew people who preferred using the meat machine to get the information they needed and/or to seek the revenge they wanted. Imagine your fingers coming out the other side of the machine looking like hamburger.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

My first internship patient was a male rape victim.

The guy went to a redneck bar, picked up two gals, who slipped him a mickey, and delivered him to their gay friends who sodomized him and threw his naked ass outta the van onto the courthouse lawn.

He didn't wanna talk to anyone.

 

[SusanJillParker]

My first internship patient was a male rape victim.

The guy went to a redneck bar, picked up two gals, who slipped him a mickey, and delivered him to their gay friends who sodomized him and threw his naked ass outta the van onto the courthouse lawn.

He didn't wanna talk to anyone.

Suddenly, I'm hearing banjo music from the movie Deliverance. Suddenly, scenes from Pulp Fiction with Bruce Willis holding a shotgun comes clearly to mind.

If only life was that vengefully simple. If only we had Charles Bronson from Death Wish or Robert McCall from the Equalizer, life would be so much better.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Suddenly, I'm hearing banjo music from the movie Deliverance. Suddenly, scenes from Pulp Fiction with Bruce Willis holding a shotgun comes clearly to mind.

If only life was that vengefully simple. If only we had Charles Bronson from Dead Wish or Robert McCall from the Equalizer, life would be so much better.

30 years ago Brooksville was Deliverance. My mothers people lived across the Green Swamp from BVille, and they were strange humans. Played banjos and buck danced to gospel music at their Primitive Baptist Church. I'm like a blend of Patty and Kathy.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What was/will be the result?

Several companies have dumped him already. Somebody (Mistress Matisse?) pointed out that the porn industry has been much more prompt in responding to this than Hollywood was to the Bill Cosby allegations. (Though I have to say, some of the other allegations against JD don't speak well of the directors and crew who allegedly let assaults happen during shoots.)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-rapist-james-deen-and-stands-with-stoya.html

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I haven't spent a penny on porn since I found out (many years ago) how performers were treated.

 

[sr71plt]

If the shoe was on the other foot and the man was raped instead of the woman, they'd process their rape kit within the hour.

Please provide some form of evidence (other than your imagination) for this statement. I think, rather, that it's more difficult for a claimed male victim to even have a rape kit taken than for a claimed female victim. I suspect you are clueless on any man being in this position at all.

 

[GforGraham]

You can talk all day long, but she said he said cases only two people know the truth, assuming one does not live in a fantasy world.
The only things wrong with porn are the terrible acting, second rate writing, over enhanced body parts, and aweful photography. Even the nude/sex scenes lack anything of interest.

 

[Bramblethorn]

You can talk all day long, but she said he said cases only two people know the truth, assuming one does not live in a fantasy world.

This isn't so much he-said/she-said as he-said/she-said/other-she-said/other-she-said/other-she-said.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think Deen is actually getting hit for this-at least professionally as nothing legal yet-is who she is. Stoya is one of the biggest names in porn. Lose her or lose a male porn star that although popular has nowhere near the draw she does.

I think for the industry to be this reactive they must feel this is a valid claim and are reacting quickly to show that its taken seriously-at least in this case.

As for legal action?

Its a fucking joke. Most women never even report they are raped in this alleged 'fair' system because they know what will happen. The man becomes of the victim and she is a lying whore who really wanted it.

That's why most women don't come forward, its easier to just deal with the humiliation of knowing you were raped than standing there in a courtroom being portrayed as a lut who 'really wanted it'

My wife has seen this countless times when she's been pulled into court to testify rape/domestic abuse cases. Some times the guy does get convicted, but even in those cases the women has to endure the inevitable bullshit of the defense saying she's lying etc...

The only thing that is as close to being as disgusting as a rapist is the lawyers who defend them.

Nothing would be any different here especially because of her profession. But at least his career seems to be ruined.

A sad thought here is it speaks volumes that the adult film industry is more reactive to a rape allegation against one of its stars then the NFL is. The rapists and abusers still get to play every Sunday there.

 

[Saxon_Hart]

A sad thought here is it speaks volumes that the adult film industry is more reactive to a rape allegation against one of its stars then the NFL is. The rapists and abusers still get to play every Sunday there.

NFL is learning that if they try to actually enforce decency in their players, the fdederal courts step in and null the punishments. ie; Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, that asshole Ndamukong Suh, Greg HArdy, Jonathon Vilma............

 

[SusanJillParker]

NFL is learning that if they try to actually enforce decency in their players, the fdederal courts step in and null the punishments. ie; Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, that asshole Ndamukong Suh, Greg HArdy, Jonathon Vilma............

Brady was found innocent of deflating footballs.

After a closer investigation it was found that perhaps Gisele's long fingernails may have deflated one or two footballs, after she was posing for photographers while holding footballs and wearing shoulder pads, Victoria Secret wings and little else.

"That's their story and they're sticking with it."

Rumor has it with their team so injured, Robert Kraft, his son, Bll Bellichick, and Gisele may be used as pass receivers.

"Go long! Run Gisele run! Flap those wings!"

 

[Handley_Page]

This is a fascinating study of sociological and culture clash.
It poses the question, how do you rape a porn-star? Of course the answer is just like anyone else.
What was/will be the result?

SJP: "Just as it holds true for a porn star, the same question could be posed by a prostitute, call girl, or paid escort. How do you rape one of them. They deserve to be raped, right? They were just asking for it. Look how they're dressed."

There seems to be a slight wind of change round this sort of legal problem:
The Porn star is fucked every time the film is played, right ?
And she loves it, right ?
Well, NO, not necessarily

I wonder sometimes about a porn star and her husband/ boyfriend /SO in normal domestic bliss, but then you might get:
"Not tonight, darling, please. I'm literally shagged out."


The problem with the case of the Prostitute is much more complicated and could lead to all manner of bad justice.
She wears clothes to titillate the prospective client, yes?
She leads him on, yes ?
And of course, there are those ladies who can handle a bit of rough, yes ?
[at which point does that become an assault, I wonder?]

I suspect that we'll never see the end of this problem; not while we have a legal system like we have; opportunistic. . ..

 

[SusanJillParker]

SJP: "Just as it holds true for a porn star, the same question could be posed by a prostitute, call girl, or paid escort. How do you rape one of them. They deserve to be raped, right? They were just asking for it. Look how they're dressed."

There seems to be a slight wind of change round this sort of legal problem:
The Porn star is fucked every time the film is played, right ?
And she loves it, right ?
Well, NO, not necessarily

I wonder sometimes about a porn star and her husband/ boyfriend /SO in normal domestic bliss, but then you might get:
"Not tonight, darling, please. I'm literally shagged out."


The problem with the case of the Prostitute is much more complicated and could lead to all manner of bad justice.
She wears clothes to titillate the prospective client, yes?
She leads him on, yes ?
And of course, there are those ladies who can handle a bit of rough, yes ?
[at which point does that become an assault, I wonder?]

I suspect that we'll never see the end of this problem; not while we have a legal system like we have; opportunistic. . ..

No matter if the woman is a porn star, a prostitute, or a swinger, "No," means no. Her body belongs to her and no one else. It is her decision if she wants to give her body to someone.

Just because women have sex for money and just because a woman shares her body with other men, doesn't make her a whore or a slut. If that was the case, if all women who had sex with men who weren't their husbands, boyfriends, and/or lovers then most all men would be accused of being whores and sluts.

Yet, once again, what's good for the gander is not acceptable, sexual behavior for the goose. Once again, the double standard rears it's head. A throwback to how men sexually perceived women in the 50's and 60's, that same antiquated perception is still alive and well today.

Just because a woman willing and freely gives her body to someone, even for money, doesn't mean that she will willingly and freely give her body to you...per se.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I'm a bit surprised at you guys, but then, most of you are writers not producers.

Rape is about violence.

Money is often about violence. The porn industry is filled with money violence.

And Hollywood is full of liars.

The END.

 

[SusanJillParker]

I'm a bit surprised at you guys, but then, most of you are writers not producers.

Rape is about violence.

Money is often about violence. The porn industry is filled with money violence.

And Hollywood is full of liars.

The END.

Thank you.

As matter of fact, I can't think of a single thing in this world that isn't about money. Can you? Anyone? Think about it.

Even with all the fuss they make about terrorism and terrorist, they won't eradicate them because those who make guns, bullets, police overtime, and everything else is about money.

If they wanted to cure cancer and diabetes, they would have but they make too much frigging money selling everyone pills.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

One of his last tweets after he retired from the business was "Director @Laws_M (and team) pressured me take drugs and do acts I never wanted to do. making me feel raped. So long & fxxx you ". I'm firmly on the side that if you "feel raped" you have been.

HandsInTheDark, resident What-Is-Wrong-With-You-People-And-Your-Use-Of-Words-Meister speaking.

Gosh, I feel raped by my employer routinely. He asks long hours, doesn't always want to pay for them, and he just increased my commute. Wow, I'm really taking it up the ass here. And they pay me for it so I must be a whore, too.

Sorry, that kind of thinking just doesn't fly. Let's save the word rape for when someone is physically coerced into providing a sexual function. By providing a tight, narrow definition for the word, it retains strong meaning and can be used in court to put molesters away. The sloppier the term becomes, the more likely it is that the rapists get away with it and the wrong people do time.

As it is now... I've had both these conversations (paraphrased) with actual people:

"So my coworker... he kept looking at me, and I told him to stop, and he didn't. I mean every day with the eyes. And the company put up a privacy wall but they wouldn't do anything more so I finally tried to press rape charges."
"Because he looked at you? Was he your boss?"
"I was very uncomfortable. And no. But the police sent me packing. I mean men can do whatever the fuck they want it seems, and the police back them up."

vs.

"So a few dates into the relationship I show up with lingerie under my coat, and he grabs my wrist as soon as the coat is off. Next thing I know I'm held down to the couch, and it turns out he's got leather bondage gear in his end table... so I'm bound and saying stop, it was all just so fast, but me fingers me and I'm trying not to come and slaps me whenever I try to say no. I came, and then I get loose but then he shoves me to the floor and takes me again and I mean fuck I've never come that way before. When he's done he makes me lick it clean and I'm shaking so bad..."
"Did you press charges?"
"Fuck no! I crawled to his feet, wrapped my arms around them and asked him if he was free again next Saturday. He was the best fucking year of my sexual life."
"But you were raped."
"Whatever. I just wish he hadn't found the girl he eventually married."

Rape will always be a mess in the courts. Some people are candy and flowers sorts and for them sex will always be straightforward, and what rape is seems clear. But some are all about some kind of hate agenda against the opposite sex and try to make everything into a discussion about power, abuse and rape. And some again are so turned on by reluctance and non-consent that what other people would call rape is to them the only way to fly.

Sex is a strange mixture of social custom, affection and love, sexual predation and dominance, conflicting emotions and babymaking. Sometimes there's alcohol involved, either to make the female pliable, or self-administered to quell fears. A person can change their mind before, during and after sex is attempted. Some men are assholes and some women are emotional trainwrecks.

And we leave it to the courts to sort this out. Courts can barely get anything right when situations are cut and dried, and we ask them to establish justice for this. There are guys in jail who don't deserve to be, and they are there because a woman would rather let someone suffer jail time than admit she said yes to someone other than her husband. And their are rapists who got away it, hitting bars and looking for the next target.

I wish any porn star or prostitute luck getting justice. Prostitutes in particular, according to society, deserve whatever they get, except maybe in Nevada.

 

[Boxerwing]

HandsInTheDark, resident What-Is-Wrong-With-You-People-And-Your-Use-Of-Words-Meister speaking.

Gosh, I feel raped by my employer routinely. He asks long hours, doesn't always want to pay for them, and he just increased my commute. Wow, I'm really taking it up the ass here. And they pay me for it so I must be a whore, too.

Sorry, that kind of thinking just doesn't fly. Let's save the word rape for when someone is physically coerced into providing a sexual function. By providing a tight, narrow definition for the word, it retains strong meaning and can be used in court to put molesters away. The sloppier the term becomes, the more likely it is that the rapists get away with it and the wrong people do time.

As it is now... I've had both these conversations (paraphrased) with actual people:

"So my coworker... he kept looking at me, and I told him to stop, and he didn't. I mean every day with the eyes. And the company put up a privacy wall but they wouldn't do anything more so I finally tried to press rape charges."
"Because he looked at you? Was he your boss?"
"I was very uncomfortable. And no. But the police sent me packing. I mean men can do whatever the fuck they want it seems, and the police back them up."

vs.

"So a few dates into the relationship I show up with lingerie under my coat, and he grabs my wrist as soon as the coat is off. Next thing I know I'm held down to the couch, and it turns out he's got leather bondage gear in his end table... so I'm bound and saying stop, it was all just so fast, but me fingers me and I'm trying not to come and slaps me whenever I try to say no. I came, and then I get loose but then he shoves me to the floor and takes me again and I mean fuck I've never come that way before. When he's done he makes me lick it clean and I'm shaking so bad..."
"Did you press charges?"
"Fuck no! I crawled to his feet, wrapped my arms around them and asked him if he was free again next Saturday. He was the best fucking year of my sexual life."
"But you were raped."
"Whatever. I just wish he hadn't found the girl he eventually married."

Rape will always be a mess in the courts. Some people are candy and flowers sorts and for them sex will always be straightforward, and what rape is seems clear. But some are all about some kind of hate agenda against the opposite sex and try to make everything into a discussion about power, abuse and rape. And some again are so turned on by reluctance and non-consent that what other people would call rape is to them the only way to fly.

Sex is a strange mixture of social custom, affection and love, sexual predation and dominance, conflicting emotions and babymaking. Sometimes there's alcohol involved, either to make the female pliable, or self-administered to quell fears. A person can change their mind before, during and after sex is attempted. Some men are assholes and some women are emotional trainwrecks.

And we leave it to the courts to sort this out. Courts can barely get anything right when situations are cut and dried, and we ask them to establish justice for this. There are guys in jail who don't deserve to be, and they are there because a woman would rather let someone suffer jail time than admit she said yes to someone other than her husband. And their are rapists who got away it, hitting bars and looking for the next target.

I wish any porn star or prostitute luck getting justice. Prostitutes in particular, according to society, deserve whatever they get, except maybe in Nevada.

Okay, then. I'm pretty sure I just heard something whizz over your head, like maybe the point.

This is not about figurative rape here. This is about actual, by-the-book, literal rape. Pressuring them to do drugs then getting them to do sex acts they have previously said they are unwilling to do? Whether or not that is their job, it is rape. If you picked up that tweet, and set the situation up like a young woman or man at a party, damn skippy that is rape.

Both of your examples talk nothing about "real" rape. The first, the word rape was absolutely used incorrectly, and of course, the police are going to brush that off. The second situation is obviously a BDSM scene, and we're missing whether there were safewords, whether this was a planned scene, whatever. And not only that, the sub themselves said it was not rape, nor did they feel raped.

So perhaps I should I should have said "I'm firmly on the side that if you 'feel raped' you have been, when there has been intimate contact between the victim and the perpetrator." Better? Sheesh.

 

[PervOtaku]

This is a fascinating study of sociological and culture clash.

It poses the question, how do you rape a porn-star? Of course the answer is just like anyone else.

What was/will be the result?

We all know the old joke, if you rape a hooker, isn't it just non-payment for services? Of course the real issue is consent. A woman feels violated if she's not on board for what's happening.

In the particular case given in the article, the very fact that Stoya had a safe word makes it clear she's an enormous slut, porn star or not. The fact that she used it and he ignored it goes against everything that responsible kinksters stand for. It makes the situation even more clear, in fact. The whole "no means yes" cliche is well known, but a safe word is unequivocally a "no".