H
HandsInTheDark
Guest
If non-con horrifies you, please skip this post. Thanks.
The fact that these categories are combined here has never bothered me much, because I've written stuff that blurs the line, so the combination takes away a hard decision at posting time.
But some people who are perfectly fine with a character being aggressively pressured into sex ("aggressive males are hot") would be absolutely not ok with forced sex ("abusive males are not hot"). And since some people react very badly to fiction about non-consent, the whole category becomes a minefield.
Noncon itself is a weird category. On one end of the spectrum there's the classic rape fantasy - the man comes out of the shadows and forces sex, or at least the variation of violence that involves penetration. There are people who get off on this fiction, almost to the exclusion of other sexual interest. But in the real world, this kind of noncon is thankfully rare. Rape in the real world is more often a sexual encounter that starts off erotic but then escalates past the permission given by the female; it's a disagreement of intent or a loss of self-control or just a manipulative bastard intent on forcing his will. The emotional impact is different; in the real world it's just as damaging but in fiction the audience who likes it appears to be honoring a very different fetish.
Then there's the legitimately grey area of high pressure seduction, where a guy (reverse the genders if you want, but I never do) uses the most aggressive of sexual play and manipulation to get the girl ratcheted up to she'll point she'll whisper a shaking yes (darker: fail to articulate a clear no), even if she'll regret it the next day. It misses being rape only because the woman could extricate herself if she chose to; she doesn't because of some fear like disappointing the guy, or just wild arousal, or (on the darker side) a threat like blackmail or economic retaliation. Physical force isn't employed. I've seen a sharp divide in opinions on this, some people find it smoking hot reluctance and some consider it rape or close enough to be horrific.
Beyond that there's the usual repeated teasing of romance and erotic play that slowly and more comfortably brings the woman to Yes. The male can be aggressive in these, but he backs off and lets the girl simmer in between, and the story is about the repeated advance and retreat and a slow shift in what's permissible.
My issue is these all go in the same category - but if I read my fans right, there are three different fetishes with not much in common in this range.
1. The fetish of violence and abused innocence - the woman had no choice and the eroticism is in the fact that she was compelled, over her strident and then pleading Nos. (At a guess, a number of women who want this kind of writing have abuse in their backgrounds, but not all of them.) For some the appeal is just the rape itself, for others there's appeal in watching the female forced to learn to want more. There's no romance here in general; and the lovelessness is part of the point. You will be used, and to your horror you may come to crave that, but if so that's just worse for you.
2. The fetish of Aggressive Maleness, the male who wants you so hard he'll push limits and break rules. It's dark because it teeters on the edge of blatant rape, but the woman is worn down and made to welter in need and a desire to please (or placate), and the heat comes from seeing her yield. As this is fiction, it often end with her having massive orgasms because we all know she wanted it all along; but that aspect is there for male readers and I'm not sure it works for females quite as well. It can end in Romance, but only if the guy was an old hand at this kind of play but decides to settle down with this particular conquest. If not it's the Hot One Night Stand story, and the woman comes out wetter but perhaps wiser. (Or just wetter and sluttier.)
3. The more mainstream fetish of courtship. Highly sexualized wooing, repeatedly tempting the girl closer and closer to just opening her legs and giving herself, even if at the beginning she was initially uncertain about the guy. This is your smiling, too-knowing handsome male assertively luring the woman down a well-worn (but not by her, though perhaps by him) path. It ends in romance, much more often than not.
These three fetishes don't seem to overlap in any one person, though I'm on thinner ice claiming that. But all three groups have to go to the same category to have their itch scratched, and for some the other two fetishes are dull or horrifying. (I don't think you can claim that last group belongs in Romance, because Reluctance involves pushing a limit and some people find any pushing of limits horrific.)
Have people who've written in this area found effective ways to cope with not setting off the different kinds of readers in this category? I get plenty of nice feedback, but I'm noticed that the writing I do for group (3) hates very high and the writing I do that covers (2) and touches (1) rates a tenth or two lower, and from the comments I think it's because expectations get challenged. One person's reluctance, etc.
The obvious answer - tell them up front how far it's going to go - is a non-starter. I'll take a two tenths ratings hit before I'll give away plot like that. And foreshadowing doesn't seem to work.
So how do people who write in this category deal?
Also - while asking for this is pointless.. should the categories be split?
The fact that these categories are combined here has never bothered me much, because I've written stuff that blurs the line, so the combination takes away a hard decision at posting time.
But some people who are perfectly fine with a character being aggressively pressured into sex ("aggressive males are hot") would be absolutely not ok with forced sex ("abusive males are not hot"). And since some people react very badly to fiction about non-consent, the whole category becomes a minefield.
Noncon itself is a weird category. On one end of the spectrum there's the classic rape fantasy - the man comes out of the shadows and forces sex, or at least the variation of violence that involves penetration. There are people who get off on this fiction, almost to the exclusion of other sexual interest. But in the real world, this kind of noncon is thankfully rare. Rape in the real world is more often a sexual encounter that starts off erotic but then escalates past the permission given by the female; it's a disagreement of intent or a loss of self-control or just a manipulative bastard intent on forcing his will. The emotional impact is different; in the real world it's just as damaging but in fiction the audience who likes it appears to be honoring a very different fetish.
Then there's the legitimately grey area of high pressure seduction, where a guy (reverse the genders if you want, but I never do) uses the most aggressive of sexual play and manipulation to get the girl ratcheted up to she'll point she'll whisper a shaking yes (darker: fail to articulate a clear no), even if she'll regret it the next day. It misses being rape only because the woman could extricate herself if she chose to; she doesn't because of some fear like disappointing the guy, or just wild arousal, or (on the darker side) a threat like blackmail or economic retaliation. Physical force isn't employed. I've seen a sharp divide in opinions on this, some people find it smoking hot reluctance and some consider it rape or close enough to be horrific.
Beyond that there's the usual repeated teasing of romance and erotic play that slowly and more comfortably brings the woman to Yes. The male can be aggressive in these, but he backs off and lets the girl simmer in between, and the story is about the repeated advance and retreat and a slow shift in what's permissible.
My issue is these all go in the same category - but if I read my fans right, there are three different fetishes with not much in common in this range.
1. The fetish of violence and abused innocence - the woman had no choice and the eroticism is in the fact that she was compelled, over her strident and then pleading Nos. (At a guess, a number of women who want this kind of writing have abuse in their backgrounds, but not all of them.) For some the appeal is just the rape itself, for others there's appeal in watching the female forced to learn to want more. There's no romance here in general; and the lovelessness is part of the point. You will be used, and to your horror you may come to crave that, but if so that's just worse for you.
2. The fetish of Aggressive Maleness, the male who wants you so hard he'll push limits and break rules. It's dark because it teeters on the edge of blatant rape, but the woman is worn down and made to welter in need and a desire to please (or placate), and the heat comes from seeing her yield. As this is fiction, it often end with her having massive orgasms because we all know she wanted it all along; but that aspect is there for male readers and I'm not sure it works for females quite as well. It can end in Romance, but only if the guy was an old hand at this kind of play but decides to settle down with this particular conquest. If not it's the Hot One Night Stand story, and the woman comes out wetter but perhaps wiser. (Or just wetter and sluttier.)
3. The more mainstream fetish of courtship. Highly sexualized wooing, repeatedly tempting the girl closer and closer to just opening her legs and giving herself, even if at the beginning she was initially uncertain about the guy. This is your smiling, too-knowing handsome male assertively luring the woman down a well-worn (but not by her, though perhaps by him) path. It ends in romance, much more often than not.
These three fetishes don't seem to overlap in any one person, though I'm on thinner ice claiming that. But all three groups have to go to the same category to have their itch scratched, and for some the other two fetishes are dull or horrifying. (I don't think you can claim that last group belongs in Romance, because Reluctance involves pushing a limit and some people find any pushing of limits horrific.)
Have people who've written in this area found effective ways to cope with not setting off the different kinds of readers in this category? I get plenty of nice feedback, but I'm noticed that the writing I do for group (3) hates very high and the writing I do that covers (2) and touches (1) rates a tenth or two lower, and from the comments I think it's because expectations get challenged. One person's reluctance, etc.
The obvious answer - tell them up front how far it's going to go - is a non-starter. I'll take a two tenths ratings hit before I'll give away plot like that. And foreshadowing doesn't seem to work.
So how do people who write in this category deal?
Also - while asking for this is pointless.. should the categories be split?
