The Evolution of Bitchiness

[Hypoxia]

The Evolution of Bitchiness

The clinical term for the womens’ bitchiness is “indirect aggression"— essentially, aggression we don’t want to get caught for.
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Psychologists Roy Baumeister and Jean Twenge have also theorized that women, not men, are largely the ones who suppress each others’ sexualities, in part through this sort of indirect aggression.

“The evidence favors the view that women have worked to stifle each other’s sexuality because sex is a limited resource that women use to negotiate with men, and scarcity gives women an advantage,” they wrote.

Consequences of supply and demand, hey? If what you are offering is of decreased value because of over-abundant supply, it's in your interest to reduce that supply by any means possible -- in this case, denigration.

 

[Learin]

The Evolution of Bitchiness


Consequences of supply and demand, hey? If what you are offering is of decreased value because of over-abundant supply, it's in your interest to reduce that supply by any means possible -- in this case, denigration.

Sex is a limited resource?

Damn...I guess I'll just have to gear up my undies and jump the bones of the first man to cross my path.

 

[Hypoxia]

Sex is a limited resource?

Damn...I guess I'll just have to gear up my undies and jump the bones of the first man to cross my path.

No, no. In capitalist theory, it's in women's interest to MAKE sex a limited resource by reducing supply, thus increasing the value vs demand. Freely available sex is like a discount wholesaler. The 'slut' is WalMart driving all the local shops out of business. The 'bitch' is the local shop denouncing WalMart's soullessness.

But yes, go jump many bones. You'll help the sexual economy grow.

 

[NotWise]

Interesting concept, but it seems to only apply to women's bitchiness toward other women, not to their behavior toward others -- men, in-laws, children, animals and so on. Do we need a theory that only explains "indirect aggression" (which is far from unique to women) in a single context?

 

[SamScribble]

My brain is starting to ache

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Psychologists are the dummest mother fuckers out on the fruited plains.

I say marriage came along to discourage illicit pregnancy. In the good old days bastards had no entitlements nor did their mothers. Heirs were entitled to 2/3rds of an estate, and mothers got 1/3rd.

 

[NaokoSmith]

You reminded me of a nice passage in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

"Elizabeth Bennet," said Miss Bingley, when the door was closed on her, "is one of those young ladies who seek to recommend themselves to the other sex by undervaluing their own; and with many men, I dare say, it succeeds. But, in my opinion, it is a paltry device, a very mean art."

"Undoubtedly," replied Darcy, to whom this remark was chiefly addressed, "there is a meanness in all the arts which ladies sometimes condescend to employ for captivation."

 

[Handley_Page]

Sex is a limited resource?

Damn...I guess I'll just have to gear up my undies and jump the bones of the first man to cross my path.

Young lady, if your AV really is you, you'll have men volunteering to be jumped.

You reminded me of a nice passage in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

"Elizabeth Bennet," said Miss Bingley, when the door was closed on her, "is one of those young ladies who seek to recommend themselves to the other sex by undervaluing their own; and with many men, I dare say, it succeeds. But, in my opinion, it is a paltry device, a very mean art."

"Undoubtedly," replied Darcy, to whom this remark was chiefly addressed, "there is a meanness in all the arts which ladies sometimes condescend to employ for captivation."

Duchess,
you have reminded me why I've not read any of the 'classic' novels of that era.
My brain 'urts just thinking about it.

 

[NotWise]

You reminded me of a nice passage in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice."

I wonder if Baumeister and Twenge cited Austen as a source.

 

[49greg]

Interesting concept about reducing supply to raise value.

I grew up in East Asia, and was familiar with the stories that in the "old days" in China extra female babies were drowned. Even in the 60s it was reputed to happen in rural areas.

Talk about reducing the supply of females.

Some time ago I also read a semi sci fi speculation about a future when/if choosing a child's sex before birth would result in far more male babies that female. Now that would be a heck of a society.

Women wouldn't have to be bitchy, they would already be in short supply.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Some time ago I also read a semi sci fi speculation about a future when/if choosing a child's sex before birth would result in far more male babies that female. Now that would be a heck of a society.

I can't cite studies, but I believe populations of men tend to get more violent when women are in short supply. A society with *far* more men than women would be, I think, a bloodbath. And the women would, I think, end up enslaved, in part to enhance male status ("I have five, you only have two, pussy boy.") and in part to protect them from even worse outcomes, except that would still be for status really. It might be an interesting, if black, plot bunny to write about, but it's not a world I want to see. Earth's population is slightly in favor of females and even then people find reason to slaughter each other. We don't need more reasons.

Drowning girl babies was from economic pressures, not to make females more powerful or precious. It's an interesting side effect but any society where people are ok with putting babies in sacks and tossing them in rivers is a society where human life doesn't have a lot of value, and I don't that's a winning place to be for anyone, especially females.

There's nothing as bitchy as a jealous woman in my experience. I'm heard trash talk no male I ever knew could come up with. So I'm certainly inclined to believe that denigration happens where there's competition. But I doubt males are free of it... we just call it cockblocking, not bitchiness.

 

[legerdemer]

I can't cite studies, but I believe populations of men tend to get more violent when women are in short supply. A society with *far* more men than women would be, I think, a bloodbath. And the women would, I think, end up enslaved, in part to enhance male status ("I have five, you only have two, pussy boy.") and in part to protect them from even worse outcomes, except that would still be for status really. It might be an interesting, if black, plot bunny to write about, but it's not a world I want to see. Earth's population is slightly in favor of females and even then people find reason to slaughter each other. We don't need more reasons.

Drowning girl babies was from economic pressures, not to make females more powerful or precious. It's an interesting side effect but any society where people are ok with putting babies in sacks and tossing them in rivers is a society where human life doesn't have a lot of value, and I don't that's a winning place to be for anyone, especially females.

There's nothing as bitchy as a jealous woman in my experience. I'm heard trash talk no male I ever knew could come up with. So I'm certainly inclined to believe that denigration happens where there's competition. But I doubt males are free of it... we just call it cockblocking, not bitchiness.

Just keep watch on China - they are exactly in that "sci fi" scenario now, of a large excess of males.

 

[Hypoxia]

Just keep watch on China - they are exactly in that "sci fi" scenario now, of a large excess of males.

Quite. I've seen suggestions Beijing *wants* (or wanted) a huge male over-supply to export as colonists in African and South American development projects. I doubt they could export enough. The couple hundred million men who will *never* have a Chinese wife are getting restive. We could predict a civil war over this -- and maybe that's what the new two-child policy is supposed to prevent. I've read the gender imbalance has women choosing high-income mates, leaving working guys in the cold. But do other outlets exist? What's the prostitution situation in China? Is there an upsurge in shared wives? Do shared wives get bitchy?

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Quite. I've seen suggestions Beijing *wants* (or wanted) a huge male over-supply to export as colonists in African and South American development projects. I doubt they could export enough. The couple hundred million men who will *never* have a Chinese wife are getting restive. We could predict a civil war over this -- and maybe that's what the new two-child policy is supposed to prevent. I've read the gender imbalance has women choosing high-income mates, leaving working guys in the cold. But do other outlets exist? What's the prostitution situation in China? Is there an upsurge in shared wives? Do shared wives get bitchy?

The last figures I saw claimed 100:120 female to male. In any other country I'd expect widespread violence. China has a very strong culture of sacrificing individual goals to national ones, so I think as long as they sell the excess male concept as a cultural norm and source of Chinese military strength, people will mostly put up with it, but honestly I think they chose to address it at the last possible moment. I also note that China has become increasingly militant recently. I have no idea if it's related but I wouldn't be shocked if there's an indirect connection.

And yet this is the country that pioneered the concept of "leftover women", women who haven't married by age 27. They get passed over by males as too old and unsuitable. You'd think the combination of concepts would give 24 year old women great social power, but... China is rather amazingly in the dark about women's rights and the only countries I can think of where being a woman would be more difficult is Afghanistan or Iran.

I doubt Chinese wife sharing is a Thing. Views on family in that culture are intense. Ambiguity in relationships is probably intolerable.

 

[lovecraft68]

Just another form of Hell hath no fury.

 

[legerdemer]

... Views on family in that culture are intense. Ambiguity in relationships is probably intolerable.

So you don't think there will all of a sudden be greater tolerance of male homosexuality in Chinese culture, eh?

 

[Handley_Page]

So you don't think there will all of a sudden be greater tolerance of male homosexuality in Chinese culture, eh?

Wouldn't that be going back a long way pre-Mao ?

 

[legerdemer]

Wouldn't that be going back a long way pre-Mao ?

Good point; relearning lessons, who needs that? LOL

I'd love to read an article on the return of hedonism and decadence in China. Oh wait, that's what the Chinese multigazillionaires are all about...

 

[HandsInTheDark]

So you don't think there will all of a sudden be greater tolerance of male homosexuality in Chinese culture, eh?

No idea. I know that family is a powerful concept in Chinese culture and that they don't think of gay people as part of that concept. That doesn't mean they won't develop other ways of accepting homosexuality. I imagine it will be what it is in the rest of the non-Western world - practiced, secretive, frowned on, but tolerated for those who are discreet.

I'm much more interested in the long term effects on women's roles. They just changed their policy of family size, but it's going to be at least 14-25 years before the newly arriving females show up in the reproductive pool. Will the leftover women phenomena finally collapse? Will they find ways to import women? Or dump their excess male population into warfare?

Roughly 1 person in 5 on this planet are Chinese. If you think about it, that's a huge population to be doing unfettered social experiments on (which is what the one baby policy amounts to). It's a little horrifying how much power a very small group of rulers have over such a large fraction of the world, and when they institute policies that basically amount to "drown your baby girls" you're clearly dealing with a dangerously low value of human life. If they turn openly militant...

 

[Gorza]

Evolution of Bitchiness? I came to this thread hoping to find a naive cartoon about the adventures of Bitchasaurus the indirectly agressive dinosaur... She is crowned Bitchasaurus Regina for she has a terrifying vagina. As that song from the Lion King goes, "Vagina Dentata, what a wonderful thing!"

The Evolution of Bitchiness

Consequences of supply and demand, hey? If what you are offering is of decreased value because of over-abundant supply, it's in your interest to reduce that supply by any means possible -- in this case, denigration.

*Reads the thing* So a bitchiness drought would lead to seismic sexiness? Are we back to 'boob-quake'? Could a feminist syndicate covertly corner the sex supply and hold patriarchy to ransom?

No, no. In capitalist theory, it's in women's interest to MAKE sex a limited resource by reducing supply, thus increasing the value vs demand. Freely available sex is like a discount wholesaler. The 'slut' is WalMart driving all the local shops out of business. The 'bitch' is the local shop denouncing WalMart's soullessness.

But yes, go jump many bones. You'll help the sexual economy grow.

The Secretary of Sex was called in to sexplain the recent slump in sexflation, and the need to pump stimulus into the sexconomy. The Prime Minister commented on her minister's figure and gave him a slice of her pie chart (invented by Flo Nightingale).

You reminded me of a nice passage in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

"Elizabeth Bennet," said Miss Bingley, when the door was closed on her, "is one of those young ladies who seek to recommend themselves to the other sex by undervaluing their own; and with many men, I dare say, it succeeds. But, in my opinion, it is a paltry device, a very mean art."

"Undoubtedly," replied Darcy, to whom this remark was chiefly addressed, "there is a meanness in all the arts which ladies sometimes condescend to employ for captivation."

What about some of us menfolk's mean arts? Like quoting a spot of P&P down the boozer: makes all the ladies go a-quiver for some Darcy breeches.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Roughly 1 person in 5 on this planet are Chinese. If you think about it, that's a huge population to be doing unfettered social experiments on (which is what the one baby policy amounts to).

Don't underestimate the role of outside agencies such as the U.N. Fund for Population Activities or the Club of Rome in promoting the One Child policy. The Malthusian dogma has always been directed in practice toward preventing the emergence of new economic powers in the world, by holding population density below the threshold required for industrialization. In the case of China, they clearly failed, and China's repudiation of the One Child policy represents a further step in their asserting their independence and their intention to develop. The idea of an overcrowded China, swarming with people, is a myth. Their situation is similar to the US in the 19th century -- a large land mass with a densely populated east coast and an empty, arid interior. The Chinese are now in full gear to open up their West.

 

[legerdemer]

Don't underestimate the role of outside agencies such as the U.N. Fund for Population Activities or the Club of Rome in promoting the One Child policy. The Malthusian dogma has always been directed in practice toward preventing the emergence of new economic powers in the world, by holding population density below the threshold required for industrialization. In the case of China, they clearly failed, and China's repudiation of the One Child policy represents a further step in their asserting their independence and their intention to develop. The idea of an overcrowded China, swarming with people, is a myth. Their situation is similar to the US in the 19th century -- a large land mass with a densely populated east coast and an empty, arid interior. The Chinese are now in full gear to open up their West.

But the One Child policy by itself did not skew the male:female ratios. The Chinese did that to themselves, by acting on cultural ideas that far overvalue male over female children.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

But the One Child policy by itself did not skew the male:female ratios. The Chinese did that to themselves, by acting on cultural ideas that far overvalue male over female children.

Very true. They were a backward nation. Now, as they surge ahead scientifically and culturally, I strongly suspect that their attitudes on gender will change correspondingly. They seem to have no shortage of female astronauts.

 

[legerdemer]

Very true. They were a backward nation. Now, as they surge ahead scientifically and culturally, I strongly suspect that their attitudes on gender will change correspondingly. They seem to have no shortage of female astronauts.

Or female scientists, or bright students of both sexes that they happily export to us (more so in the past than now). Goodie for us.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The function of culture is this: Evolution is a slow process. We are, for all intents and purposes, the same humans as lived 10,000 years ago. Life comes is many combinations and permutations (possibilities). Culture culls the harvest because every candidate isn't near and dear to God's heart. Societies struggle over what gets anointed and appointed to the throne. We fought a horrific civil war to preserve our nation and abolish slavery, yet the forces of disunion and feudalism persevere here.