Incest fetish/category (Split from Contest Thread)

[lovecraft68]

It's obvious that you want to make it a normal thing--and it's obvious why. Don't waste your time trying to convince me. That dog don't bark.

The same reason you waste time pointing out your points to me when you know we disagree, to hear yourself bark.

I am not saying its one out of three people like...I am saying the fetish is huge, its a vast dirty secret and its pretty open in many places of the world not still pretending they have a moral code like the US does, which is laughable when you watch whats on regular TV these days.

 

[sr71plt]

Newsflash. My aversion to incest has nothing to do with writing (I can separate fact from fiction and write in this area, like so many others, without accepting it in reality)--it has to do with it being a sickness and selfish and destructive behavior within the family--dominated by pedophiles. And, once again, it's quite obvious why you try to make it normal--and widespread--behavior. You've done well with it, because it's an underserved niche market for a relatively small group of readers (dominated by pedophiles--don't even try to convince me that most incest readers are here for adult-only incest)--and because you identify so well with the genre.

 

[sr71plt]

P.S., of course the stories I write to Incest here don't rank high in the ratings (they do just fine, though). I don't even remotely write for the pedophile crowd and the Incest readership here is obviously dominated by pedophile wannabes. Like what I write to a broad range of other categories here, I write what I want to write in terms of adult incest, and I don't obsess with ratings anything like others do (and some, like LC, do with my writing). I don't write for Lit. readers because I see them as discerning readers who have something to teach me about writing. I write to turn them on--and I do that as a professional writer who still uses professional writing techniques. A writer like LC doesn't have a chance of trying to give me a complex about my writing ability--nor do I trumpet my perceived abilities a fourth as much as LC does his (I also write comfortably in a hell of a lot more categories than LC attempts ).

 

[AH_Mod]

Blanket derogatory remarks about another author's writing are out of bounds. There's a difference between critique and derision.

The contest thread isn't the place for a discussion that always has such strong viewpoints on both sides, and that's why the posts have been split into their own thread.

 

[HeyAll]

I think the whole incest thing (especially mother/son) is the most kept in the dark because it's an embarrassing fantasy.

You can have women openly talking about reading bdsm books or seeing the 50 Shades movie. But try publicly talking about reading a mother/son story...

 

[Zeb_Carter]

My best sellers are incest, mainly mother/son incest.

I don't read or write gay male but it is the second biggest seller out there.

In fact just thinking about gay male makes me sick to my stomach...thanks for that.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think the whole incest thing (especially mother/son) is the most kept in the dark because it's an embarrassing fantasy.

You can have women openly talking about reading bdsm books or seeing the 50 Shades movie. But try publicly talking about reading a mother/son story...

I think of this often while on here. A lot of things we casually talk about here, especially on the fetish boards, are not things we would bring up in real life, at least not to just anybody.

The anonymity of the net has done a lot for incest and other fetishes because people can watch the movies(with actors of course) read the stories and discuss in places like this or any erotic chatroom with no fear of being outed.

As for the popularity of incest one only needs to look at Kay Parker's Taboo movie and the incredible following it has and not just in 'incest circles' but in the actual porn industry, its up there in status with other legendary films and its incest. Yes, they are actors of course, not real, but in the movie they are so if you're watching it, its what is turning you on.

In the porn world now there are countless videos and many sites specializing in incest and step incest. Porn Star Jodie West recently won an AVN and she 90% of her videos are mom/step mom

In the world of kink family relations is huge and getting bigger. Right now step incest is still the hottest selling erotica on amazon and real incest was when they allowed it. But its limited. Yes, I can see that

People should stop talking without looking into things.

 

[lovecraft68]

And just a bump to state that I did not create this thread. It was moved from the contest thread...imagine discussing category popularity in a contest thread where categories and popularity are relevant factors.

Too bad they didn't pay attention this much attention to the poster turning this forum into a joke.

 

[sr71plt]

Blanket derogatory remarks about another author's writing are out of bounds. There's a difference between critique and derision.

The contest thread isn't the place for a discussion that always has such strong viewpoints on both sides, and that's why the posts have been split into their own thread.

Please just delete this thread. You excerpted out LC's attack on my writing--and my answer to that--from which the rest of this flows. For the second time in a week LC had attacked my writing, which I think is the sleaziest thing one Lit. author can do toward another Lit. author on the AH.

Your excerpting is dishonest. You edited the posts without even acknowledging where and what.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I think the whole incest thing (especially mother/son) is the most kept in the dark because it's an embarrassing fantasy.

You can have women openly talking about reading bdsm books or seeing the 50 Shades movie. But try publicly talking about reading a mother/son story...

Gee, I wonder why.

Oh, that's right - BDSM is a real-world, consenting practice between two adults. It's not for everyone but at least pain and frustrated flight-or-fight responses have understandable effects; so people can discuss it intelligently, and take it or leave it. Responsible practitioners have rules, and irresponsible practitioners can get outed.

As opposed to incest, which in the real world is predatory without exception in that a person in a position of authority is implicitly or explicitly misusing that authority, to the long lasting psychological harm of the victim. Let's add illegal in most places, biologically unsound for genetic reasons, and note that is just about never separate from other forms of abuse. I don't want to hear about your 18 year old brother/sister lovefest - show me an example of that in the real world. Every incest victim I've ever spoken to was harmed. It's not an "embarrassing fantasy". It's a sickening practice, and let's get some terms straight - the actual emotion is shame, not embarrassment. For good reason.

In every situation I've seen, there is a victim and a perpetrator, and they have this is common - they both come to hate the victim.

If you are writing about it, no matter what age you make your characters, you are in effect normalizing and encouraging pedophilia.

 

[lovecraft68]

Please just delete this thread. You excerpted out LC's attack on my writing--and my answer to that--from which the rest of this flows. For the second time in two days LC had attacked my writing, which I think is the sleaziest thing one Lit. author can do toward another Lit. author on the AH.

Your excerpting is dishonest. You edited the posts without even acknowledging where and what.

And your "LC is attacking my writing" is one of your classic 'they are picking on me' lines.

Saying you have had limited success in the incest category is not an attack, its fact, pull the numbers. Your votes/comments/favs are well below the norm there.

Saying 'limited success' is not saying shitty writer its saying you don't seem to be able to appeal in that category. Every author has categories they do well in and ones they fare not so well in.

You have dissed the incest readership and authors here for years, yet still push stories into a category you have obvious disdain for and get offended when you don't crush it there.

 

[sr71plt]

I see no reason to pursue your sickness further on this thread. Another couple of days, you'll attack my writing to be able to think of yourself as king of the mountain, and we can go around again. You just can't help yourself.

 

[lovecraft68]

Gee, I wonder why.

Oh, that's right - BDSM is a real-world, consenting practice between two adults. It's not for everyone but at least pain and frustrated flight-or-fight responses have understandable effects; so people can discuss it intelligently, and take it or leave it. Responsible practitioners have rules, and irresponsible practitioners can get outed.

As opposed to incest, which in the real world is predatory without exception in that a person in a position of authority is implicitly or explicitly misusing that authority, to the long lasting psychological harm of the victim. Let's add illegal in most places, biologically unsound for genetic reasons, and note that is just about never separate from other forms of abuse. I don't want to hear about your 18 year old brother/sister lovefest - show me an example of that in the real world. Every incest victim I've ever spoken to was harmed. It's not an "embarrassing fantasy". It's a sickening practice, and let's get some terms straight - the actual emotion is shame, not embarrassment. For good reason.

In every situation I've seen, there is a victim and a perpetrator, and they have this is common - they both come to hate the victim.

If you are writing about it, no matter what age you make your characters, you are in effect normalizing and encouraging pedophilia.

BDSM? Do you talk about it? All I have seen is you talk about non consent and anyone who knows anything about BDSM knows it all has to start with a yes and you are a fan of "no" so your example is bogus seeing you're not a fan of what BDSM really is, consensual.

And nothing is more predatory than rape and we all know how you are a proponent of that. At least the unrealistic incest stories-which btw just about every incest author and reader does acknowledge they are ludicrously unrealistic-involve consent and a form of fun, albeit to many people a sick sort of fun.

rape is a crime in real life and on sites like this there is no unrealistic view of rape, in fact its shown as more brutal here than real life.

Whether is justifying or not, people who like fantasy style incest are reading stories where people are enjoying themselves no one gets hurt.

In the stories you are a huge fan of and justify people-mostly women-are hurt and in pain and suffering. Do you realize that? That in any other kink the people enjoy it? Except for the one you love and defend so much, there the more the victim suffers the hotter it is....and you have the audacity to claim incest fans get off on hurting someone?

Incest readers get off on an absurd fantasy, you get off on pain, yet you constantly judge another kink.

Show any incest fan a case of real life abuse and they will be as offended as the next person, show a fan of non consent a story of real life rape and they think plot bunny.

And your constant comments about incest victims?

Know what they are a victim of? Rape. Rape. Rape. So next time you get on your soap box about incest victims you know you should think about the fact what they are victims of is something you think is hot, rape. The fact it was a family member that did it makes it more disturbing, but it is rape.

Those victims were taken without consent....but wait, you enjoy non consent, don't you?

So I think your sympathy for real life incest victims is insincere seeing the crime committed against them was a crime you get off too,

Wait, what? Oh, the rape stories you like here are fictional and fantasy, that you wouldn't condone that in real life? Is that the answer you are preparing to give?

I am sure it is, so keeping that in mind all the incest stories here and the movies etc...are equal works of fiction.

have I taken the teeth from your argument enough yet?

People who enjoy the kink of rape have no right to judge any other kink because rape is the one sex crime out there including what people who commit incest and bestiality(the other 'crime' kink) are guilty of....rape.

So seeing you have made it clear you enjoy non consent logic dictates you should not have an issue with any form of sexual suffering.

 

[lovecraft68]

I see no reason to pursue your sickness further on this thread. Another couple of days, you'll attack my writing to be able to think of yourself as king of the mountain, and we can go around again. You just can't help yourself.

Re-read your post while looking in the mirror because it all applies to you. I'll make sure I quote the next time you tell someone they 'are good enough for lit'

 

[lovecraft68]

Please just delete this thread. You excerpted out LC's attack on my writing--and my answer to that--from which the rest of this flows. For the second time in a week LC had attacked my writing, which I think is the sleaziest thing one Lit. author can do toward another Lit. author on the AH.

Your excerpting is dishonest. You edited the posts without even acknowledging where and what.

Speaking of attacks....just for anyone interested in some hypocrisy here is a thread broken off from the Winter thread where Pilot bullies another author out of the contest thread because they have not written enough here for his liking.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1241140

Hey pot....

 

[litfan10]

I was reading a great book by a very experienced Master who was a psychiatrist in the vanilla world. He brought up an example to try to put fetishes in their place in our society.

There are people who have a serious fetish for putting needles into people just as there are people who enjoy being injected with a needle. If you can get the two together and they are able to act out their fetishes in a consensual and safe manner then what is the problem. This comes with an understanding that running down a school hall randomly jabbing people with a needle is very much a criminal act.

What is one person's extreme fantasy is another person's criminal act when removed from the proper context.

I have many fetishes - some I've acted on and some remain a fantasy. I've helped my partner experience some of her fetishes as well. That's what consensual partners do.

Some of my fetishes would be complete turn-offs to some while some fetishes are complete turn-offs for me. (Frankly, I have no interest in needles whatsoever and after a lot of time in hospitals I'm honestly sick of them but I firmly believe to each his/her own)That is what makes each of us unique and human. As long as it is safe and consensual for both or all parties live and let live.

I love the taboo of the concept of incest. For me it is complete fantasy material - I've never practiced nor ever intend to, but the idea is a thrill. Do I feel I'm enabling others when I write incest fiction - no more than I feel I enable murderers when I write a mystery. In my incest work it is always consensual and safe (the ultimate key component to anything that goes beyond the vanilla world.) It is always adults, never underage and that is a must within my fetish preferences if you will. I write for pleasure with a measure of disregard for reality but still and always safe and consensual and no one gets hurt (so not true of my vanilla world murder mysteries.....but that is a whole other issue to my weirdly wired brain I guess)

Ultimately, to each his/her own as long as it is safe (no one gets hurt) and consensual (everyone derives pleasure.)

More than my two cents

Peace and love everyone.

 

[R. Richard]

As opposed to incest, which in the real world is predatory without exception in that a person in a position of authority is implicitly or explicitly misusing that authority, to the long lasting psychological harm of the victim. Let's add illegal in most places, biologically unsound for genetic reasons, and note that is just about never separate from other forms of abuse. I don't want to hear about your 18 year old brother/sister lovefest - show me an example of that in the real world. Every incest victim I've ever spoken to was harmed. It's not an "embarrassing fantasy". It's a sickening practice, and let's get some terms straight - the actual emotion is shame, not embarrassment. For good reason.

In every situation I've seen, there is a victim and a perpetrator, and they have this is common - they both come to hate the victim.

I wrote a story, 'Family Retreat' in which a mother, brother and sister take a job on a remote tropical isle, to get away from the mother's homicidal husband. Since there are no other people in the island, the three have sex with each other to satisfy their sexual urges and to allow them to operate efficiently.
I also wrote 'Friday Night,' in which people engage in incest, for very practical reasons. In 'Friday Night,' when the reasons for incest go away, so does the incest.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

You need to fast forward 10,000 years out of the Stone Age and read some Freud. Oh wait, try some Greek drama first.

Or will that get me censored on the AH, idk

Gee, I wonder why.

Oh, that's right - BDSM is a real-world, consenting practice between two adults. It's not for everyone but at least pain and frustrated flight-or-fight responses have understandable effects; so people can discuss it intelligently, and take it or leave it. Responsible practitioners have rules, and irresponsible practitioners can get outed.

As opposed to incest, which in the real world is predatory without exception in that a person in a position of authority is implicitly or explicitly misusing that authority, to the long lasting psychological harm of the victim. Let's add illegal in most places, biologically unsound for genetic reasons, and note that is just about never separate from other forms of abuse. I don't want to hear about your 18 year old brother/sister lovefest - show me an example of that in the real world. Every incest victim I've ever spoken to was harmed. It's not an "embarrassing fantasy". It's a sickening practice, and let's get some terms straight - the actual emotion is shame, not embarrassment. For good reason.

In every situation I've seen, there is a victim and a perpetrator, and they have this is common - they both come to hate the victim.

If you are writing about it, no matter what age you make your characters, you are in effect normalizing and encouraging pedophilia.

 

[litfan10]

You need to fast forward 10,000 years out of the Stone Age and read some Freud. Oh wait, try some Greek drama first.

Or will that get me censored on the AH, idk

If you do get censored know that I'll raise a toast to the memory of your words next banned book week.

 

[sr71plt]

Responders to this thread are (purposely?) sidestepping the issue I was posting on--that most writers/readers of incest here at Lit. are here for parent/child (ergo pedophile) stories, no matter what they do to keep the story barely within the Web site age restrictions, not adult-adult incest stories. So declarations that you personally only write/read adult-adult incest stories here are irrelevant to the issue I addressed. I looked at the "most recent" stories on the Incest category hub--twenty-five stories. Of these sixteen are playing the underage card in content even if (wink, wink) evoking the eighteen-year-old fig leaf (including a Christmas story by LC). And seven of the last twenty "looking for in all categories" posts are looking for what are clearly fig-leaf covered (if that) adult-child (ergo pedophile) stories.

Personal behavior posted disclaimers aside, I believe I am right that most coming here for incest stories want to find/write adult-child (ergo pedophile) stories no matter how thinly couched in "old enough" fig leafs. Dragging in any suggestion that those looking for clearly adult-adult incest stories is, in itself, a fig leaf approach, I posit.

 

[legerdemer]

Responders to this thread are (purposely?) sidestepping the issue I was posting on--that most writers/readers of incest here at Lit. are here for parent/child (ergo pedophile) stories, no matter what they do to keep the story barely within the Web site age restrictions, not adult-adult incest stories. So declarations that you personally only write/read adult-adult incest stories here are irrelevant to the issue I addressed. I looked at the "most recent" stories on the Incest category hub--twenty-five stories. Of these sixteen are playing the underage card in content even if (wink, wink) evoking the eighteen-year-old fig leaf (including a Christmas story by LC). And seven of the last twenty "looking for in all categories" posts are looking for what are clearly fig-leaf covered (if that) adult-child (ergo pedophile) stories.

Personal behavior posted disclaimers aside, I believe I am right that most coming here for incest stories want to find/write adult-child (ergo pedophile) stories no matter how thinly couched in "old enough" fig leafs. Dragging in any suggestion that those looking for clearly adult-adult incest stories is, in itself, a fig leaf approach, I posit.

Disclaimer: Personally, I have no way to judge on the motivation of people who read incest.

How would you know why they do? You've argued in the past that it's impossible to know the motivation of writers here for why they write etc., if they're really male/female, and so on. I guess I'm curious - what makes you more certain of being able to ascertain this particular motivation?

 

[sr71plt]

You're being irrelevant to anything I've said couldn't be seen before. The content and popularity of the stories speak for themselves. That they do no better than cover themselves with fig leafs on being adult-child (ergo pedophile-interest stories) is ipso facto evidence of what they attract/ are interested in. Let's get real and stop being mealymouthed about this. If they weren't interested in the adult-child aspect of incest they wouldn't be interested in stories written the way I have identified the bulk of recently posted and/or requested stories are delivered/requested here.

Be blind and mealymouthed if you like. I don't mind pointing to the elephant in the corner of the china shop. The bulk of the incest stories here and the bulk of the popularity in incest stories here is for the adult-child (ergo pedophile) interest. End of story.

I am not saying the category should be thrown out, and LC is lying about saying I've frequently posted about the incest category at all. I'm just stating the obvious of what's here and who comes shopping in the incest category--and who many of the writers are writing for. Those saying otherwise are just trying to fool folks--and maybe themselves.

I don't care if you or anyone else chooses to believe it--or wants to try to rationalize it away. It is quite obvious and understandable to me. The category attracts pedophile wannabees. It's no counterargument (as was given on this thread) that the gay stories here attract gay readers/writers but are repugnant to some other readers, because that's both true and "so what?"

 

[legerdemer]

Well, this tells me everything I needed to know. And since I care not about incest, nor have any data or reason to judge by, I'm off this thread.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

BDSM? Do you talk about it? All I have seen is you talk about non consent and anyone who knows anything about BDSM knows it all has to start with a yes and you are a fan of "no" so your example is bogus seeing you're not a fan of what BDSM really is, consensual.

And nothing is more predatory than rape and we all know how you are a proponent of that.

Wow. This is so off base I don't know where to start.

I've got one story (Toymaker) in which a sexual predator runs around using technology to make women want sex, and as the character devolves into hate, it becomes straight up non-consent and rape, but the character is painted as increasingly evil, and ultimately gets what's coming.

I've got one in which men kidnap women for relationships, which is non-consent but deliberately follows the pattern of romance novels in which a woman is captured by a pirate she ultimately come to love.

I've got one in which rape is intended and a lot of trickery happens but ultimately the heroine is rescued from the rapist (and gets significant revenge on her assailant.)

I have one in which the main character evolves from someone using his position of authority to get laid with whoever he decides is his next target - and finds out that an 18 year old's innocence and love are stronger than he is.

And the rest are consent stories; specifically, Angelwatch is as clearly ANTI-rape as anyone has ever written, to the extent that people find it preachy. Why I Hate My Roommate is a straight up pair of love stories with a BSDM flavor, but it's love, dominance and submission.

Hit a nerve, did I? Go read Angelwatch. Your apology can wait until you've finished it.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, the old chestnut that BDSM has rules. Bullshit. BDSM clubs have rules. The elements of BDSM--either acting them out or writing about them--don't require any rules. If you tie someone up, it's bondage--no rules on doing it required. And you can write about that being done with no rules at all in mind. You can subjugate someone, being dominant, without any rules on doing it required. And you can write about that being done with no rules at all in mind. You can be a sadist without following anyone's rules. You can be a masochist without following anyone's rules--and these can be written in a story without any sense of some little club's rules on what can/cannot be done for it to be termed bondage, domination, sadism, or masochism. There's no club that determines rules for everyone on the acting out or writing about any of these elements.