Question about "the closet"of sexually deviant behavior...

[jonnysimple]

People (not everyone of course) tend to attribute the phrase "in the closet" to being gay. However, I'm 100% straight, but for the first part of my life, was unable to comprehend my sexual needs, which revolved around plastic and PVC and asphyxiation. At that time, I was in my early teens, and wasn't aware of the word "fetish." At school, some girls wore shiny jackets, or plastic flat shoes, or shiny pants, and in some cases, PVC jackets. I was unable to focus on those days, as fantasies took over my mind. I was unable to discuss this with anyone since this meant actually speaking face to face. The anonymity of the Internet was years away. In the mid 70's my father received a "joke gift" from my brother; "the joy of sex." I was amazed to find a small section that spoke about something sexually deviant, where the women would wear a clear plastic rain coat. I was amazed that this was actually defined and known to be related to sexuality. Despite all this, I was still in the closet for many more years, since my fetish also included auto-asphyxiation. Oh yes, I was "sick" according to my own definition.

We now jump to the mid 1990's and the advent of consumer Internet. I got connected and began to explore the wonders of this new medium. The buzz in the early days was something called "Alta-Vista" which was a search engine. Then it occurred to me that I could search for anything, regardless of how deviant in nature. I typed "plastic asphyxiation" and was greeted with hundreds (early days don't forget) of results. There were people talking about this and there were photos and web sites, like InSex.com. This was also the moment that I learned the term "auto erotic asphyxiation." My world had been revised. I wasn't out of the closet publicly, but I was out of my own personal closet. I had a girlfriend who I mentioned this to at the time. She hadn't a clue of this, or anything related to it, so needless to say, we didn't last much longer. Nice.

I believe that being gay is something akin to my story, as I know how it feels to think you are abnormal, or "sick" because your sexuality isn't like others. My "normal" was to have sex with a girl/women who would be wearing plastic or PVC of some kind, and possibly use that to asphyxiate me. How is that so different than someone attracted to someone of the same sex, while everyone around them wanted the other sex?

My question to anyone who wants to share; When did you come out of the deviant sexual behavior closet, personally and/or your exterior life?

 

[Netzach]

A lot of people make the "just like being gay" statements. They're almost always not gay.

Talk to people who are BOTH kinky and gay. I'm not going to speak for all of them. However, in my own case, it is far far easier to simply fail to discuss WHAT I am doing in bed than it is to fail to discuss who I live with, who's going to show up if I'm in the hospital, etc. Those things will come up, and so they need to be safe for me to be open about.

I'm not in the closet in regard to my kink life, and this extends to having been professional and having myself "out there" as a kinky person. That means if someone asks me "are you this person?" I'm not going to deny it.

However I'm not going to introduce or announce myself as a prodomme to anyone who doesn't invite the question either. I'm not going to have the "what I'm into" conversation with anyone I'm not really deeply intimate with, as friends or as literally about to get sexy with.

I have a little checklist in my head prior to any sharing I do.

-Did they ask?
-Will it help ME if they know?
-Will it help THEM if they know?
-Is it relevant (are they part of my sex life and thus it's part of that question)

If it doesn't hit any of those markers, what's the point of having the discussion?

 

[SpunThings]

People (not everyone of course) tend to attribute the phrase "in the closet" to being gay. However, I'm 100% straight, but for the first part of my life, was unable to comprehend my sexual needs, which revolved around plastic and PVC and asphyxiation. At that time, I was in my early teens, and wasn't aware of the word "fetish." At school, some girls wore shiny jackets, or plastic flat shoes, or shiny pants, and in some cases, PVC jackets. I was unable to focus on those days, as fantasies took over my mind. I was unable to discuss this with anyone since this meant actually speaking face to face. The anonymity of the Internet was years away. In the mid 70's my father received a "joke gift" from my brother; "the joy of sex." I was amazed to find a small section that spoke about something sexually deviant, where the women would wear a clear plastic rain coat. I was amazed that this was actually defined and known to be related to sexuality. Despite all this, I was still in the closet for many more years, since my fetish also included auto-asphyxiation. Oh yes, I was "sick" according to my own definition.

We now jump to the mid 1990's and the advent of consumer Internet. I got connected and began to explore the wonders of this new medium. The buzz in the early days was something called "Alta-Vista" which was a search engine. Then it occurred to me that I could search for anything, regardless of how deviant in nature. I typed "plastic asphyxiation" and was greeted with hundreds (early days don't forget) of results. There were people talking about this and there were photos and web sites, like InSex.com. This was also the moment that I learned the term "auto erotic asphyxiation." My world had been revised. I wasn't out of the closet publicly, but I was out of my own personal closet. I had a girlfriend who I mentioned this to at the time. She hadn't a clue of this, or anything related to it, so needless to say, we didn't last much longer. Nice.

I believe that being gay is something akin to my story, as I know how it feels to think you are abnormal, or "sick" because your sexuality isn't like others. My "normal" was to have sex with a girl/women who would be wearing plastic or PVC of some kind, and possibly use that to asphyxiate me. How is that so different than someone attracted to someone of the same sex, while everyone around them wanted the other sex?

My question to anyone who wants to share; When did you come out of the deviant sexual behavior closet, personally and/or your exterior life?

It's different because you can be partnered with your opposite sex person, be kinky as fuck, and no one will know the difference unless you tell them. Someone who wants a relationship with someone of the same sex, to remain in the closet, has to pretend they don't have a relationship with that person. Basically you can date your kinky partner and go to the movies, and if a gay person wants to remain in the closet and go to the movies with their partner, they have to pretend to be friends and perhaps be afraid the whole time that everyone will figure it out.

I'm not trying to diminish how you feel, but I wanted to give some perspective.

I'm not "in the closet". I just choose not to tell most people what I'm into because it's not relevant. I've hinted to close friends, but that's because in that situation it's normal for us to have a bit of openness about sex. There's sexual banter, and they're open minded people who care a lot about me. However, I don't need to go to them and say, "I'm a sexual submissive masochist." because I really don't think they care THAT much.

As for personally, I never was "in the closet" in that way. I met my husband when I was very young, and we were both very open very early about our fantasies. We got SUPER lucky in that our sexual desires are very compatible.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Cumference]

.... I just choose not to tell most people what I'm into because it's not relevant......

The same here.

Basically, it is none of their business.
(Though I'm quite certain, a lot of people expect us to be some kinky bastards)

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[jonnysimple]

I should clear something up. My question was perhaps written in such a way that didn't fully convey what I was looking for. Coming out of "the closet" in this situation means that you have realized that you are not sick, but share something that many many others do. This relates to being gay, or kinky, or a fetishist, etc. At what point in your life did you have the realization that you were not as abnormal as you thought?

 

[Cumference]

I've never considered myself "abnormal".

My parents were pretty tolerant, and basically worked on the principle of "do no harm and stand by the choices you make".
That makes it a bit harder to feel like an outcast, than I guess it must be in a religiously pious shame based culture?



Finding an old book with the wonderful title "The sexual minorities" at a young age (that must be 18 since we're on Lit ) also opened my eyes for the diversity of human sexuality.
To be quite honest, I still think that book was meant to titillate, but it had the disguise of "medically informative".
Looking it up, I see now, that it was written by a Swedish psychiatrist called Lars Ullerstam.
Sorry for going off topic.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Cumference]

Hey, I never called myself "normal"!

I'm actually pretty happy not to be in the category of grey, mushy averagenes.

But I've never felt abnormal in the sense, that I was "wrong" or "outside society".

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Cumference]

I didn't say I considered you normal. But I did think that you were saying you thought you were. .

It is only the truly crazy, who keep insisting that they are sane!

 

[policywank]

I think that a lot of us in our youth confuse the notion of "normal". The implication is that "normal" means that which reflects the opinion and values of the majority. Even if that were true it doesn't obliged any of us to conform, but it isn't true anyway. Our notion of "normal" ebbs and flows with the zeitgeist but it is always rooted in the way somebody (usually a vocal minority) thinks things should be rather than any real understanding of how things really are.

For me, in a perverse way being raised in a strict religious environment is what led me to this realization. And it was aided by moving quite a bit during childhood. I was constantly going from one environment where people force fed me their version of "normal' to another environment where other people defined "normal" completely differently. Whether transitioning from church to public school or one culture to another I learned just how much of what we hold as truth or the only way is nothing more than habit.

There is no one definition of "normal" but even if there was most of us would not be deemed normal. And thank goodness for that. What a fucking bore the world would be if we were all normal.

 

[desertslave]

I'm not 'normal' or typical or average in many different ways. I've been aware of it since I was a kid, in some ways if not others. For a few years I tried desperately to be invisible, to be just like most others. Then (one year at summer camp...honest! LOL) I learned to embrace all the stuff, normal or not, that made me ME. To my infinite gratitude I've found occasional people or even small groups that have embraced my me-ness (artist groups, historic groups, kink groups, whatever) so I can be comfortable being myself. By the time I discovered my sexual kinks, I just rolled with is and learned everything I could. Master has also nurtured me in times of self-doubt (yes, I still have my moments) and given me confidence when my own has been uncertain.

 

[SpunThings]

I should clear something up. My question was perhaps written in such a way that didn't fully convey what I was looking for. Coming out of "the closet" in this situation means that you have realized that you are not sick, but share something that many many others do. This relates to being gay, or kinky, or a fetishist, etc. At what point in your life did you have the realization that you were not as abnormal as you thought?

I think I answered that part of your question. I've never considered myself normal. I've never considered myself an outcast, or abnormal though. I just never felt like I fit in, and never really had a drive to fit in. I like to think my choices are based on their merits, rather than because I think I'm supposed to do it. That has lead to avoiding some things just because they're trendy, and having a difficulty admitting I liked them until they were not trendy.

I never felt the need to tell my sexual desires to anyone but my husband (boyfriend at the time). Since I kept those thoughts and fantasies in my head, they were in a safe private place. I also came of age during the internet, so while you were exploring as an adult I was exploring as a teen. I didn't really seek out sexual stuff, but it was common cultural knowledge that there was some kinky stuff online.

My Mom once found a whip that we had when we were moving. Maybe that outed me? I don't know. She never mentioned it. So, either she figured it out and didn't want to know (thank goodness!) or had no clue what we had it for. I wasn't influenced by the same cultural stigmas that you were, so to me it's just never been a big deal.

Plus, I always preferred my not so normal friends. They were much more interesting to me, and were often less judgemental if I deviated from societal norms.

 

[Somnolence]

I can definitely understand the comparison, to be honest where I live sexuality isn't honestly something I've ever needed to hide, at least since secondary school but that was just sake of ease, not fear.

Coming to terms with who I am sexually had been far harder than coming to terms with my sexuality, for both me and my owner, I'm big bellied tall hairy bear of a man, depending on the state of my beard Most people say I either look like a Viking or henry VIII, I'm the guy everyone does that annoying"I'd never have guessed you were gay if you hadn't said" speech too, so one of the biggest things I've had to accept is that I'm allowed to be all that and still be my masters pup, I almost deluded myself to thinking that I had gender identity issues because how I felt sexually had only ever been depicted and shown with cutesy little girls, perky breasted anime caricatures or feminised sissies.

People are very happy to accept gays these days, provided you act like a callback for modern family.

 

[Somnolence]

Sorry to segment like this but wished to address"normality" seperately.

Normality is not something I care for, at its best it is simply a set of rules you didn't agree to being imposed on you and it is worst it constricts us, to live is to grow and change, defining one thing as normal and one thing as abnormal limits us as people, it's simply another form of imposed morality, as people we need to destroy the old and create anew, as a great man once said; god is dead, we are free.

Don't let yourself be limited by other peoples definitions of normality(or your own!)

What is normal to the spider is chaos to the fly.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Somnolence]

I don't understand the last sentence, but I think it means 'camp'? I have friends who are 'straight acting' and who people do not assume are gay. And ...that's also I guess a point of equality ...that our sexuality has no bearing on our status/ aptitude/ fitness.

Not so much camp as media friendly and non threatening, for so long homosexuality was viewed as a sexual perversion, horny men meeting up in toilets and spreading disease and thankfully that view changed, in no small thanks to the media but the issue for me has now become that as a community we are so desperate to fit in that we cling to this ideal of, and I do hate this word but... Heteronormality; don't worry about the gays, they're basically just a straight couple, see the one in the flowery shirt is the woman and oh how cute, they adopted, isn't that adorable!

And I by no means wish to put any limitations on the interactions of straight people, I guess what I mean its that there seems to be this emphasis on being and acting vanilla(mayba that's a better word) or you're somehow letting down the community, you're allowed to be gay you just have to be as boring in the sack as the rest of us.


As for the rest of your post, and I do hope I'm not misinterpreting, but am I right in saying, if I can, that you would argue sexuality is an inherent base aspect of yourself not effected by circumstance where as the lifestyle you live in respect to G is somehow unique to the specific situation, were you with someone else then your sexual side might be expressed differently and I agree wholeheartedly but I also think that certain aspects of sexuality transcend basic kink.

There are plenty of people who like a bit of rough play but there are also people who couldn't feel fulfilled in a relationship with out it, there are gay guys who live for years in straight relationships, even to the point of having kids, but they're still gay, there are people who are lying in bed with there partner but would mind, body and soul rather be in a one piece dog suit in a cage by the foot of the bed.

And for that person coming to terms with that and accepting yourself for it can be just as difficult as for the closeted gay guy deluded marriage.

Sexuality and shall we say sexual expression are entirely different but both the same in the sense that they are a part of ourselves and we need to accept, embrace and cherish that, rather than hiding because we're frightened someone might think we're weird.

And thanks for the welcome, I look forward to seeing you around likewise

 

[policywank]

I can definitely understand the comparison, to be honest where I live sexuality isn't honestly something I've ever needed to hide, at least since secondary school but that was just sake of ease, not fear.

Coming to terms with who I am sexually had been far harder than coming to terms with my sexuality, for both me and my owner, I'm big bellied tall hairy bear of a man, depending on the state of my beard Most people say I either look like a Viking or henry VIII, I'm the guy everyone does that annoying"I'd never have guessed you were gay if you hadn't said" speech too, so one of the biggest things I've had to accept is that I'm allowed to be all that and still be my masters pup, I almost deluded myself to thinking that I had gender identity issues because how I felt sexually had only ever been depicted and shown with cutesy little girls, perky breasted anime caricatures or feminised sissies.

People are very happy to accept gays these days, provided you act like a callback for modern family.

So many variations on attitude and sexual preference have been simplified by pop culture into trite stereotypes. On one hand it reflects a certain acceptance, but as you say that acceptance is contingent upon complying with the stereotype.

We have a different and broader definition of what is "acceptable" than we did 30 years ago but the images are still strictly controlled and deviations from acceptable are still trivialized or vilified.

The reference to gay people is pertinent. I know lots of people who are comparatively intolerant and judgmental but think they are enlightened because they can watch sanitized sitcoms where all the characters aren't traditionally heterosexual.

 

[Somnolence]

Exactly, possibly a better explanation of what I was trying to say!

 

[jonnysimple]

What's tragic is how the networks will take advantage of people's stereotypical attitudes to then focus their efforts to capitalize on them, hence, "three's company" and all sorts of others. Yup, I'm dating myself (no pun intended... oh hell, yes it was).

 

[Netzach]

I can definitely understand the comparison, to be honest where I live sexuality isn't honestly something I've ever needed to hide, at least since secondary school but that was just sake of ease, not fear.

Coming to terms with who I am sexually had been far harder than coming to terms with my sexuality, for both me and my owner, I'm big bellied tall hairy bear of a man, depending on the state of my beard Most people say I either look like a Viking or henry VIII, I'm the guy everyone does that annoying"I'd never have guessed you were gay if you hadn't said" speech too, so one of the biggest things I've had to accept is that I'm allowed to be all that and still be my masters pup, I almost deluded myself to thinking that I had gender identity issues because how I felt sexually had only ever been depicted and shown with cutesy little girls, perky breasted anime caricatures or feminised sissies.

People are very happy to accept gays these days, provided you act like a callback for modern family.

OMG, I love this. So true.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Basically, it is none of their business.

And yet, they try to make it so.

I've never considered myself "abnormal".

I have. I really have never 'fit in' to any of the common molds that society tries to shove people into. My ways are rarely accepted anywhere.