"We're All Perverts":

[JackLuis]

"We're All Perverts": The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality with Author Christopher Ryan ​

Christopher Ryan sits down with Reason contributor Thaddeus Russell to discuss his book, Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality. Together with Cacilda Jethá, Ryan has written about the history of human sexuality and why we should fight against "socially imposed restrictions." By looking at archaeology, primate biology, human physiology, and anthropological studies of pre-agricultural tribes from around the world, Ryan says we aren't meant to be in life-long monogamous unions.

 

[TxRad]

What was your first clue.

Talk about preaching to the... Oh wait, we're perverts they don't allow us in.... Well, actually they do but we have to be covert about it.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Um... every society I know of, ancient and modern, has has some conception of marriage. In a few places it's supported one man and several women, and in a couple (ancient greece, 1700's france) it's been extended to allow for an extra partner on the side, but the concept of a closed unit family with tightly drawn sexual limits is universal. So is infidelity, but everyone in every culture hates a cheater, so who is he kidding.

"Pre-agricultural tribes"? If the best he's got is that monkeys and cavemen cheat, he's ignoring the thousands of years of human social development that rejected "See girl, mount girl, grunt grunt grunt, move on" as a poor genetic strategy.

I smell trash intended to appeal to everyone who's ever wanted to cheat on a spouse (or has and it looking for justification). That's a large audience and the book should do well, for much the same reason that cheap vodka sells well with alcoholics.

 

[Handley_Page]

Ye gods, this is heavy stuff, and somewhat controversial.

Still, it might provide a backdrop for something in LW.

 

[Hypoxia]

A few things come to mind about 'perversions' and fidelity:

A biographer of Gore Vidal, who used to pick up rough trade (boy-toys) around Naples, said Italian boys are raised as perpetual babies by their mamas and have fluid sexuality, available to fuck anything; and that all Italian wives cheat on their husbands.

In 1900 an estimated 25% of the adult women in New York City were prostitutes -- they had no other work available. Much of their trade was with married men. Prostitution has been rampant since forever -- the oldest profession, right? Marriage fidelity? Ha.

I know that in European history the aristos, warriors, merchant sailors, and commercial travelers were, shall we say, not always constrained by vows of matrimony. And certain festival days traditionally featured mass drunken fuckfests. Fun fun fun.

What we think of as the 'normal' nuclear family is an artifact of industrialization, with the workforce broken down into the smallest possible family units as interchangeable cogs. Pre-industrial families tend to extend across generations, with grandparents and their siblings, many of their children, and *their* children, all living in close proximity -- and little privacy. Families often kept servants who were often sexual toys of their masters.

What was there to do with one's spare time before the birth of mass entertainments? The usual amusements were fucking, religious gatherings, fucking, trade fairs, fucking, public executions, fucking, sporting events, fucking, rioting, and fucking. Face it: people have fucking around in many categories for a long, long time.

 

[JackLuis]

I thought the points he made were pretty reasonable, monogamy is common, but should not be viewed as the only/right way to live.

Cheating and 'a bit of strange' are two different issues.

Ask Hillary.

 

[JackLuis]

How Drunkards, Whores & 'The Immoral' Shaped the Nation (w/ Thaddeus Russell)

Thaddeus Russell is the author of A Renegade History of the United States. He takes a brash, maybe even borderline blasphemous look at the American bourgeoisie and puritans of the past. How did weekends come to be, and how did the mafia, brothel madams, minorities, homosexuals, and others considered "deviant" by the ruling puritanical culture help shape the nation? And is it possible to criticize the suffrage movement and even Martin Luther King Jr.?! Cenk Uygur hashes it all out in this probing interview with Thaddeus Russell.

Interesting viewpoint.

 

[TxRad]

How Drunkards, Whores & 'The Immoral' Shaped the Nation (w/ Thaddeus Russell)



Interesting viewpoint.

Very interesting.

 

[Hypoxia]

I thought the points he made were pretty reasonable, monogamy is common, but should not be viewed as the only/right way to live.

Cheating and 'a bit of strange' are two different issues.

Ask Hillary.

Hillary, right.

Anyway, I object to linking cheating with perversion. Infidelity is normal. Perversion is merely any socially non-standard sex act. Who said the worst perversion is chastity?

 

[loquere]

I've been told that there's a section of Lit dedicated to non-erotic works of art.

 

[Hypoxia]

I've been told that there's a section of Lit dedicated to non-erotic works of art.

That's pretty pervy here.

 

[TxRad]

That's pretty pervy here.

A lot of the perverts around here graduated to proverts a while ago.

 

[LucidLucifer]

Well there's perverts and there's jaded degenerates.

 

[Handley_Page]

A lot of the perverts around here graduated to proverts a while ago.

Reminds me of that graphito joke, written [scribed] on a wall:


Original: I like grils

Someone with a sense of spelling crossed out grils and inserted 'girls'.

A third line read: "What's wrong with us grils, then?"

 

[Hypoxia]

Reminds me of that graphito joke, written [scribed] on a wall:

My favorites are two I observed long ago in the same stall in a restaurant at Hollywood & Vine. One read:

Here I sit
On the pooper
Giving birth to
A state trooper​

The other was a two-parter. In one hand was written:

My mother made me a homosexual​

Just underneath, in another hand, was:

If I give her the yarn
Will she make me one too?​

Each a classic in its genre, IMHO.