World War 2 realities.

[NOIRTRASH]

Read a startling account of German might at the ass end of World War 2.

Albert Speer was producing more planes, tanks, more everything than Hitler had back in 1939. Plus he added missles, jet aircraft, etc. Eisenhower and Monty had about the same toys as France and Britain when Hitler kicked ass. So what was different?

Logistics. Hitler's people never got the beans and bullets to the troops when needed. Never, and he never learned from his supply failures.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Too late, sorry

 

[jaF0]

There were more than a few stories of Panzer crews getting out of their Tigers and walking home because they had no fuel.

 

[Que]

The concept was that with blitzkrieg you didn't need the same level of logistical supply because you were going to overwhelm the enemy and take their supplies. Not a very enduring strategy for a long drawn out war.

His death knell was Stalingrad. It held no strategic value whatsoever yet he demanded it taken simply because it had Stalin's name on it. Because he paused at Stalingrad he didn't get to the oil fields at Caucasus. Because he demanded the take Stalingrad at any cost he lost his best troops in the war.

All he had to do was bomb the Red October plant and move on.

 

[PayDay]

The stupidity of this post is epic.

There were no German pilots at the end of the war, or after 1943 for that matter. They were all dead. The Luft had a ton of planes, but all of the pilots were dead.
There were no German soldiers after 1943. They, also, were all dead. Germany was so desperate for troops they forcefully drafted kids and invalid old men with no knowledge of how to shoot or function as troops. Read about the Ardens and the Battle of the Bulge.

You need better books, like the kind of books with facts that treat the Nazis like the scum villains they were.

 

[parodyluvr75]

http://ideasandpixels.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/hugging-cute-cat-meme.jpg

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Read a startling account of German might at the ass end of World War 2.

Albert Speer was producing more planes, tanks, more everything than Hitler had back in 1939. Plus he added missles, jet aircraft, etc. Eisenhower and Monty had about the same toys as France and Britain when Hitler kicked ass. So what was different?

Logistics. Hitler's people never got the beans and bullets to the troops when needed. Never, and he never learned from his supply failures.

Monty [Montgomery] was British, you know?

 

[jaF0]

^^ Yeah .... so?

I think that was the reference .... the two countries.

 

[mark_j]

Read a startling account of German might at the ass end of World War 2.

Albert Speer was producing more planes, tanks, more everything than Hitler had back in 1939. Plus he added missles, jet aircraft, etc. Eisenhower and Monty had about the same toys as France and Britain when Hitler kicked ass. So what was different?

Fuel... The aerial campaign against Romanian oil fields of late '43 and early '44 did more to hamstring the German's industrial might than just about any other aspect of strategic bombing..

Logistics. Hitler's people never got the beans and bullets to the troops when needed. Never, and he never learned from his supply failures.

Other than Stalingrad, logistics weren't that much of a problem until early '44 when the Luftwaffe lost local air superiority. The issue was that Germany didn't really plan to fight a two front war. They figured that most of Europe would come to a truce and then the only problem would be the Russians.

 

[Que]

Fuel... The aerial campaign against Romanian oil fields of late '43 and early '44 did more to hamstring the German's industrial might than just about any other aspect of strategic bombing..



Other than Stalingrad, logistics weren't that much of a problem until early '44 when the Luftwaffe lost local air superiority. The issue was that Germany didn't really plan to fight a two front war. They figured that most of Europe would come to a truce and then the only problem would be the Russians.

I didn't know about that part. I knew that fuel was an ever-increasing problem and blunted the strength of their highly mechanized army.

 

[jaF0]

I believe one of their biggest problems was opening the Eastern Front.

Had they tried to keep Russia out of it and used them for supplies as an ally, they may have been able to take and hold the UK.

They tried to do too much too fast.

They would have lost in the end, but it may have been many more years.

 

[mark_j]

The stupidity of this post is epic.

There were no German pilots at the end of the war, or after 1943 for that matter. They were all dead. The Luft had a ton of planes, but all of the pilots were dead.
There were no German soldiers after 1943. They, also, were all dead. Germany was so desperate for troops they forcefully drafted kids and invalid old men with no knowledge of how to shoot or function as troops. Read about the Ardens and the Battle of the Bulge.

You need better books, like the kind of books with facts that treat the Nazis like the scum villains they were.

The 5th and 6th Panzer and the 7th Army were at full strength when the battle for the Ardennes started. There were only three divisions of conscripts in the battle. The 27th, the 12th and the 18th Volks Grenadier divisions supported by the 1st and 12th SS Panzer.

 

[Mr Noone]

I so much prefer arguments (or conversations, if you wish) over sixty year old wars than this week's wars.

 

[cheesehead2]

The stupidity of this post is epic.

There were no German pilots at the end of the war, or after 1943 for that matter. They were all dead. The Luft had a ton of planes, but all of the pilots were dead.
There were no German soldiers after 1943. They, also, were all dead. Germany was so desperate for troops they forcefully drafted kids and invalid old men with no knowledge of how to shoot or function as troops. Read about the Ardens and the Battle of the Bulge.

You need better books, like the kind of books with facts that treat the Nazis like the scum villains they were.

Right on. Read the right books and watch the right films. Might even help a little bit to talk with someone that was privy to what was really taking place.

 

[someoneyouknow]

I believe one of their biggest problems was opening the Eastern Front.

Had they tried to keep Russia out of it and used them for supplies as an ally, they may have been able to take and hold the UK.

They tried to do too much too fast.

They would have lost in the end, but it may have been many more years.

Not really. If you read the book, Hitler's Panzers East, the author shows how the German army, right up to the Stalingrad fiasco, met every time schedule they had set and in some cases were ahead of schedule.

Aside from Stalingrad, when Hitler ordered the six week halt outside of Moscow there was essentially no effective Russian military opposition. Radio intercepts of the Russian high command showed they had no idea what was going on, in some cases telling units to retreat to certain locations which the Germans had already captured.

Contrary to what people have been told, Operation Barbarossa was a complete success but, as with Dunkirk, Hitler interfered and victory slipped from the Wehrmacht's grasp.

P.S. When the Germans initially attacked, they found some Russian armies arranged in formations which suggested they were planning their own attack towards the West.

 

[Jessie_Pinkman]

Fuel... The aerial campaign against Romanian oil fields of late '43 and early '44 did more to hamstring the German's industrial might than just about any other aspect of strategic bombing..

Those Romanian bombing campaigns were considered a failure overall.

Too high a price, too little results.

 

[Que]

I so much prefer arguments (or conversations, if you wish) over sixty year old wars than this week's wars.

Time does have a way of making at least the facts a little more apparent. But only a little.

 

[mark_j]

Those Romanian bombing campaigns were considered a failure overall.

Too high a price, too little results.

Tidal Wave was just one part of the overall strategy.. Yes, in and of itself the Ploiesti raids of August '43 were too costly for the end result. But then in '43 the Allies still didn't have fighters that could escort the bombers all the way to the target as yet and a great majority of the missions in fall and early winter of '43 were too costly (see Bremen, Regensburg and Schweinfurt) and in fact a majority of air operations within bomber command were suspended until Feb '44 to not only rebuild from the losses of '43 but to address the fighter escort issue.

It wasn't until early '44 with the advent of the drop tank and the Mustang that the Allies had an effective fighter force to combat the Luftwaffe on bombing missions.

As for the oil campaigns, there is some dissent as to the actual effectiveness.

Opinions on outcome: (from Wiki)

"Despite its successes, by the spring of 1944 the Combined Bomber Offensive had failed to severely damage the German economy or significantly interrupt production of a vital item. The Oil Campaign was the first to accomplish these goals. The US strategic bombing survey identified "catastrophic" damage. Of itself, German industry was not significantly affected by attacks on oil targets as coal was its primary source of energy. And in its analysis of strategic bombing as a whole the USSBS identified the consequences of the breakdown of transportation resulting from attacks against transportation targets as "probably greater than any other single factor" in the final collapse of the German economy.

Several prominent Germans, however, described the Oil Campaign as critical to the Third Reich's defeat. Adolf Galland, General der Jagdflieger of the Luftwaffe until relieved of command in January 1945, wrote in his book "the most important of the combined factors which brought about the collapse of Germany," and the Luftwaffe's wartime leader, Hermann Göring, described it as "the utmost in deadliness." Albert Speer, writing in his memoir, said that "It meant the end of German armaments production." It has been stated to have been "effective immediately, and decisive within less than a year." Luftwaffe Field Marshal Erhard Milch, referring to the consequences of the Oil Campaign, claimed that "The British left us with deep and bleeding wounds, but the Americans stabbed us in the heart.""

What the strategy DID was to force the Luftwaffe into the air in defense of these and other targets allowing the the fighters (when there were sufficient numbers flying escort) to actually do battle. In essence, the bombers in '44 were "bait".

 

[ishtat]

THe Russians won the war. Everything else was a sideshow.

 

[Aphro]

James, why did you change your name?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I believe one of their biggest problems was opening the Eastern Front.

Had they tried to keep Russia out of it and used them for supplies as an ally, they may have been able to take and hold the UK.

They tried to do too much too fast.

They would have lost in the end, but it may have been many more years.

The facts expose Stalin and Churchill as conspirators in the business of allowing Stalin to dominate Europe in trade for a 2nd front against Hitler. A book titled STALIN'S FOLLY reveals how Hitler caught Stalin moving troops and bases to the border separating German and Russian Poland. That is, defensive military bases aren't located on borders, the wise commander builds bases away from borders. Hitler caught greedy Stalin with pants down. Churchill was desperate for help with Hitler. Hitler was, in 1941, starving Britain with U-boats. Churchill was evil.

 

[Laurel]

My brain is weirder than I thought.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

James, why did you change your name?

Two reasons: Using a real name is risky business, and using one account to post opinions and stories invited what I got. My alt story accounts score significantly higher than JAMESBJOHNSON. But I need to change this account name to something like LEROYOFLUV.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The stupidity of this post is epic.

There were no German pilots at the end of the war, or after 1943 for that matter. They were all dead. The Luft had a ton of planes, but all of the pilots were dead.
There were no German soldiers after 1943. They, also, were all dead. Germany was so desperate for troops they forcefully drafted kids and invalid old men with no knowledge of how to shoot or function as troops. Read about the Ardens and the Battle of the Bulge.

You need better books, like the kind of books with facts that treat the Nazis like the scum villains they were.

The ME262 flew itself?

Jumpin' Geronimo!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

There were more than a few stories of Panzer crews getting out of their Tigers and walking home because they had no fuel.

Fuel was plentiful, roads weren't.