We need to have an honest discussion on race

[astuffedshirt_perv]

We need to have an honest discussion on race.

Matt Damon: sure, I'll start.

Yeah, how'd that work out, bro?

Matt Damon apologizes over 'Project Greenlight'

How about we start conversing as soon as the social media culture goes away.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Those who call for "an honest discussion on race" are prone to suppress it as soon as whites begin to express opinions they dislike.

I want there to be an honest discussion on race. I want scientists to be able to explain what they have learned about racial differences and the genetic reasons for those differences. I want everyone to be able to explain how they really feel about people of different races, and why they really feel that way.

I think the races are intrinsically unequal in characteristics that enable them to make valuable contributions to modern civilization and an economy which is going to become increasingly computer driven and complex. Differences between the races overlap, but average differences are obvious and durable in ways that strongly indicate genetic origins.

 

[Kitty]

He's an idiot and aging horribly.
And the reason why there's lacking diversity in Hollywood is simple: those rich fat bastards don't care?

 

[Sean Renaud]

Those who call for "an honest discussion on race" are prone to suppress it as soon as whites begin to express opinions they dislike.

I want there to be an honest discussion on race. I want scientists to be able to explain what they have learned about racial differences and the genetic reasons for those differences. I want everyone to be able to explain how they really feel about people of different races, and why they really feel that way.

I think the races are intrinsically unequal in characteristics that enable them to make valuable contributions to modern civilization and an economy which is going to become increasingly computer driven and complex. Differences between the races overlap, but average differences are obvious and durable in ways that strongly indicate genetic origins.

You have no desire for an honest discussion. What you have is your various prejudices and the hope that scientists are being silence for some reason the world over and will magically confirm your belief if only the mean old government would stop telling them otherwise.

What did Damon do that is so offensive. Reading the article he seems to have really made the only call possible even if he didn't agree with it (and I think he did).

 

[IrezumiKiss]

You have no desire for an honest discussion. What you have is your various prejudices and the hope that scientists are being silence for some reason the world over and will magically confirm your belief if only the mean old government would stop telling them otherwise.

What did Damon do that is so offensive. Reading the article he seems to have really made the only call possible even if he didn't agree with it (and I think he did).

This is sort of old news right now, but Damon tried to whitesplain over a black woman's known experiences about race and casting as a female director of color in the industry to shut her up. And then gave a conciliatory non-apology to quell the inevitable backlash.

He's got a major movie coming out very soon, helmed by a known director who just laid a massive historical flop using the very same whitewashing privileges Damon was stanning for. So he had a priority to deal with. He knows he fucked up even if his contrition isn't quite so genuine. Now, I don't think he's Hitler, but his privileged douche came out and he's not walking that back.

 

[LIBBYLOON]

The money says it all. Good films fail but not often. Good directors who make profitable popular movies stick around to make more movies. Directors who lose money for investors get jobs at Harvard.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Oh shut up Libby. Good movies fail all the fucking time and trash makes it to the top repeatedly. That's the NORM not the exception and it boils down to basic math. Which still has me failing on understanding what precisely Damon did since it seems like some people wanted a woman and an Asian to direct a film about a black prostitute and Damon effectively replied he would pick who ever was most qualified regardless of sex or race.

Which even if you believe (largely correctly) that being a minority gives you special insight into these things if you're running a reality show you can't flat out state "well you can be the most talented on paper but I'm taking this person because of their race, gender so on and so forth. You simply can't.

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

What did Damon do that is so offensive

Precisely why we can't have an honest discussion in this social media culture. Conversations are not group chants, there are opposing views to be aired. In the social media culture, any opposing or slightly off message opinions must be castigated and relegated to public shaming with silly made-up words (mansplaing? really?)

 

[RjThoughts]

He's an idiot and aging horribly.
And the reason why there's lacking diversity in Hollywood is simple: those rich fat bastards don't care?

Not even the rich old fat bastards who don't care. Adam Sandler had Native American actors "bronzed," to look darker on his Netflix film. For fuck's sake, Hollywood's not even caring!

 

[sybarite_1]

One race

The human race.

Just accept it

 

[Sean Renaud]

Precisely why we can't have an honest discussion in this social media culture. Conversations are not group chants, there are opposing views to be aired. In the social media culture, any opposing or slightly off message opinions must be castigated and relegated to public shaming with silly made-up words (mansplaing? really?)

Except this social media culture is by far the best venue we've ever had for these conversations. No, opposing or slightly off messages are not publically shamed and yes mansplaining is a thing. (All words are made up)

I do not understand Matt's sin here at all. That's not a fault of the medium nor the media but a fault probably of mine in simply not seeing it but possibly in others not articulating it particularly well.

Not even the rich old fat bastards who don't care. Adam Sandler had Native American actors "bronzed," to look darker on his Netflix film. For fuck's sake, Hollywood's not even caring!

What color where they originally? I'm sorry without knowing what film he's making (and thus the importances of the native Americans in the film) it's hard for me to be pissy about this. Now we can debate as to how accurate the "stereotypical" Indian look is vs the realistic appearance if we want but RJ, if I make a movie about European Settlers meeting with the natives for the first time you're either not in the movie or your getting cast as a European. For the same reasons that Micheal Jackson's kids, African American or Half Black as they are should not get to play Frederick Douglass!

 

[Kitty]

Not even the rich old fat bastards who don't care. Adam Sandler had Native American actors "bronzed," to look darker on his Netflix film. For fuck's sake, Hollywood's not even caring!

I'm sorry? Are you saying Adam Sandler isn't a rich fat old bastard?

 

[The_Trouvere]

You have no desire for an honest discussion. What you have is your various prejudices and the hope that scientists are being silence for some reason the world over and will magically confirm your belief if only the mean old government would stop telling them otherwise.

I do indeed want an honest discussion. Fifty one years after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed and the War on Poverty declared we need to discuss why black crime and illegitimacy has gotten worse, while black academic performance has hardly increased at all.

Prejudice consists of continuing to believe that black problems are caused by white racism, when there is growing evidence that black problems are caused genetically.

In an honest discussion on race Charles Murray and James Watson will be allowed to participate. They have much of value to contribute.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The human race.

Just accept it

The human species is divided into different races. Some are better able by innate ability and behavior to contribute to modern civilization than others.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Hollywood already presents an unrealistically flattering portrayal of blacks. The only place I have ever seen a black physician is on a movie screen.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I do indeed want an honest discussion. Fifty one years after the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed and the War on Poverty declared we need to discuss why black crime and illegitimacy has gotten worse, while black academic performance has hardly increased at all.

Prejudice consists of continuing to believe that black problems are caused by white racism, when there is growing evidence that black problems are caused genetically.

In an honest discussion on race Charles Murray and James Watson will be allowed to participate. They have much of value to contribute.

It's a complicated issue but we can break down a lot of it. The war on drugs has torn black families and black communities apart. The adjustment to welfare hasn't been kind to them either. I'm not privy to the information on illigitimacy rates and I'm not finding remotely accurate (consistent across multiple sources) numbers right now but I'll get back to that. Given how short changed the schools are I wouldn't expect much increase in academic peformance (assuming that's not something else you made up.

A lot of black problems are caused by white racism and none of them are genetic.

The only honest discussion to have about Murray is that his methods are flawed, hell even his logic doesn't really hold together. Half the population is below average intelligence. That doesn't actually mean half the population is stupid or even uneducated merely below average. If I have a room with say Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Isaac Newton, Niel DeGrass Tyson and Carl Sagan guess what? Half the people in that room are below average intelligence.

His statements on minorities are mirrored in his statements on women. You can't expect people who aren't given the same resources to accomplish the same things.

The human species is divided into different races. Some are better able by innate ability and behavior to contribute to modern civilization than others.

Except they aren't. There has been no findings suggesting that the separate "races" have enough differences to account for much of anything and race is a social construct to begin with not a biological fact.

Hollywood already presents an unrealistically flattering portrayal of blacks. The only place I have ever seen a black physician is on a movie screen.

Well that's not really a fair statement at all. The only place I've ever seen a pope, a US President, the Statue of Liberty or Pluto is on a screen. Last I checked the Cosby Show never had a movie so that's one on the television screen for ya.

The fact that you've never seen Doctor Ben Carson, the first man to successfully separate twins conjoined at the skull with both surviving, on television doesn't make him a fictional character.

 

[PoppingTom]

The human species is divided into different races. Some are better able by innate ability and behavior to contribute to modern civilization than others.

Civilization means emancipation from nature. It has nothing to do with race, more with choice. Even animals are able to behave civilized.

If your dog isn't house-trained, don't blame the race!

 

[Halen]

He's an idiot and aging horribly.
And the reason why there's lacking diversity in Hollywood is simple: those rich fat bastards don't care?

a lack of diversity? I laugh every time I hear how "white" Hollywood is. Stein, Horvitz etc these are Israelis not Brit's


The real reason there is a diversity in Hollywood is because Hollywood died like 40 years ago, no one makes movies in Hollywood anymore. The film industry as a whole is lacking diversity for very simple reasons. Lack of skilled workers of color. Just because you spent 4 years at acting school, doesn't make you a worth while actor. Any School is willing to sell you the goods, schools are a business in it for the income. There is not a lot of talented trained cameramen of ethnicity. not enough Writers of any ethnicity apparently which is why we are reliving the 80s!.

I know you don't mean as in Actors, because you can not swing a stick with out hitting a Black, Asian, Middle eastern actor!. the real issue is people expect things to be handed to them. Make me a movie star, I got no talent, no background, no portfolio, but I want to make 30 million today in a staring role.. doesn't happen, in no profession should you walk off the street and not expect to be put in the bottom entry level job! but that's the thinking.

In the mid 80s I was on set with Bubba Smith Michael Winslow and Marion Ramsey that's Sgt High Tower Sgt Jones and Sgt Hooks of the Police academy series, all respectable talented black actors. they were still pretty racist at the time with the Asian guy who could speak perfect English but was asked to preform his lines as seen on video in a very broken Asian English accent.

 

[KUJACK]

Ok

We have a black president, Black culture is most popular, rap music and dance, sports stars 90% black, Oprah Winfrey most respected celebrity, Denzel Washington most respected actor, Ben Carson most respected surgeon.
Black crime mostly done by other blacks, but whites are blamed.
Are these facts not true?

 

[Sean Renaud]

a lack of diversity? I laugh every time I hear how "white" Hollywood is. Stein, Horvitz etc these are Israelis not Brit's


The real reason their is a diversity in Hollywood is because Hollywood died like 40 years ago, no one makes movies in Hollywood anymore. The film industry as a whole is lacking diversity for very simple reasons. Lack of skilled workers of color. Just because you spent 4 years at acting school, doesn't make you a worth while actor. Any School is willing to sell you the goods, schools are a business in it for the income. There is not a lot of talented trained cameramen of ethnicity. not enough Writers of any ethnicity apparently which is why we are reliving the 80s!.

There is not a talented trained cameraman of ethnicity? You're pulling that entirely out of your ass as you are a good chunk of your argument. It's not like being a talented actor is even the most important part of being a major actor. Having the right look and the good luck to be in the right place at the right time is far far more important than talent.

Besides when you're talking about the actor end many of the stories are built on existing franchises and/or are written by white people. It's not a complaint, it's a simple fact. People tend to write characters that come from similar backgrounds and ethnicities as themselves.

I know you don't mean as in Actors, because you can not swing a stick with out hitting a Black, Asian, Middle eastern actor!. the real issue is people expect things to be handed to them. Make me a movie star, I got no talent, no background, no portfolio, but I want to make 30 million today in a staring role.. doesn't happen, in no profession should you walk off the street and not expect to be put in the bottom entry level job! but that's the thinking.

Maybe not without hitting a black. I can swing sticks all day and have a hard time hitting a Middle Easterner. Actually in Hollywood you pretty much can do exactly that. Besides youre mostly whining to whine here.

In the mid 80s I was on set with Bubba Smith Michael Winslow and Marion Ramsey that's Sgt High Tower Sgt Jones and Sgt Hooks of the Police academy series, all respectable talented black actors. they were still pretty racist at the time with the Asian guy who could speak perfect English but was asked to preform his lines as seen on video in a very broken Asian English accent.

Okay. . .this has nothing to do with anything really. You really should get someone to read your shit before you post it.

 

[PoppingTom]

Black crime mostly done by other blacks, but whites are blamed.
Are these facts not true?

I think that whites are blamed for being privileged in crime.

 

[Sean Renaud]

We have a black president, Black culture is most popular, rap music and dance, sports stars 90% black, Oprah Winfrey most respected celebrity, Denzel Washington most respected actor, Ben Carson most respected surgeon.
Black crime mostly done by other blacks, but whites are blamed.
Are these facts not true?

Yes we have a black president.
Black culture is most popular would definitely need some qualifiers. I'm not even sure rap in any meaningful sense is most popular.
I doubt 90% of sport stars are actually black once you start factoring in things that aren't the NBA and NFL but I'll grant you that for whatever it's worth.
Oprah Winfrey is the most respected celebrity is entirely opinion based as is Denzel.
Ben Carson may be the most respected surgeon, I'm simply not a surgeon to have any way of gauging that and I assume you aren't either.
Black crime is mostly done by other blacks whites are not blamed. Not ever. That is not true in any way shape or form.

 

[RjThoughts]

Except this social media culture is by far the best venue we've ever had for these conversations. No, opposing or slightly off messages are not publically shamed and yes mansplaining is a thing. (All words are made up)

I do not understand Matt's sin here at all. That's not a fault of the medium nor the media but a fault probably of mine in simply not seeing it but possibly in others not articulating it particularly well.



What color where they originally? I'm sorry without knowing what film he's making (and thus the importances of the native Americans in the film) it's hard for me to be pissy about this. Now we can debate as to how accurate the "stereotypical" Indian look is vs the realistic appearance if we want but RJ, if I make a movie about European Settlers meeting with the natives for the first time you're either not in the movie or your getting cast as a European. For the same reasons that Micheal Jackson's kids, African American or Half Black as they are should not get to play Frederick Douglass!

What color were they originally? Let me see, since they are Native American actors, I'd say from my tan shade to darker. They weren't "dark enough" for him.

 

[Sean Renaud]

What color were they originally? Let me see, since they are Native American actors, I'd say from my tan shade to darker. They weren't "dark enough" for him.

You are a pretty damn good example. You are Native American if I recall properly. You however do not look the part and it's a movie. You do need to look the part and being "dark enough" is part of the deal. Now I've never looked at THESE actors to know how the look vs what he wanted but I'm hesitant to jump on board with him being wrong.

 

[RjThoughts]

You are a pretty damn good example. You are Native American if I recall properly. You however do not look the part and it's a movie. You do need to look the part and being "dark enough" is part of the deal. Now I've never looked at THESE actors to know how the look vs what he wanted but I'm hesitant to jump on board with him being wrong.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/04/23/native-actors-walk-set-adam-sandler-movie-after-insults-women-elders-160110