Why we need to nationalize the production of life-saving drugs.

[LJ_Reloaded]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/2...-a-drugs-price-raises-protests.html?referrer=

Specialists in infectious disease are protesting a gigantic overnight increase in the price of a 62-year-old drug that is the standard of care for treating a life-threatening parasitic infection.

The drug, called Daraprim, was acquired in August by Turing Pharmaceuticals, a start-up run by a former hedge fund manager. Turing immediately raised the price to $750 a tablet from $13.50, bringing the annual cost of treatment for some patients to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Had we kept the Capitalists out of this

this life-saving drug would still cost only $13.50

 

[BotanyBoy]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/2...-a-drugs-price-raises-protests.html?referrer=


Had we kept the Capitalists out of this

this life-saving drug would still cost only $13.50

1) more people need to die...the Earth is over populated.


2) don't need to nationalize pharmaceuticals to prevent shit like this from happening. Just make sure the insurance companies nor government are obligated to pay that price and he will come up off it soon enough.

 

[Aella_]

Yes, and from what I understood (from the net), some third-world countries are much more "first-world", when it comes to this.
India, for example, has less stringent patent laws and they were able to provide a cheaper alternative to a cancer drug, which enraged a certain drug company.
And they also claim that the much disputed Transpacific Agreement that they're working on, carries the same danger: of enforcing patent laws everywhere.

 

[Yardley]

Brilliant. Once you nationalize all the important life saving drugs no pharmaceutical company will ever sink one dime into developing any new ones. We have cures for everything already, right?

You realize that the cost of developing a new drug includes all the drugs they tried to develop and failed at?

Thomas Edison discovered 999 ways that won't work for making a lightbulb before he found one that did work.

 

[Aella_]

Economics aren't my strongest suit nevertheless I liked the topic, so I posted.
And you are right too.
I wonder, however, whether a compromise would be the best solution (ie private and national / or capitalism and socialism). Seems like the whole world has gone too extremely capitalistic, just like those communist countries went yo the other extreme, once.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Brilliant. Once you nationalize all the important life saving drugs no pharmaceutical company will ever sink one dime into developing any new ones. We have cures for everything already, right?

You realize that the cost of developing a new drug includes all the drugs they tried to develop and failed at?

Thomas Edison discovered 999 ways that won't work for making a lightbulb before he found one that did work.

The research for those drugs happen in universities.
And I don't mind nationalizing pharmaceutical companies.

I know, it hurts your feels. But fuck your feels.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You realize that the cost of developing a new drug includes all the drugs they tried to develop and failed at?

Thomas Edison discovered 999 ways that won't work for making a lightbulb before he found one that did work.

That doesn't justify this guy's actions...he's just being a twat because he can and likely because he already knows some insurance company or gov rule will let him charge as much.

The research for those drugs happen in universities.

Some, not all......your' totally fucking delusional again. Why don't you just move to China where things are more your flavor?

You obviously loathe the USA and everything it stands for.

 

[Yardley]

The research for those drugs happen in universities.
And I don't mind nationalizing pharmaceutical companies.

I know, it hurts your feels. But fuck your feels.

Cite on drugs primarily coming out of universities, without the aid and support of Big Pharma research?

Socialism is based entirely on feelings about what is fair not what produces the greatest output for a given society. Output equals wealth. You can certainly whine about how that wealth is concentrated but there is no objective basis to suggest that central planning results in higher production yields much less innovation. There is no innovation without incentive.

As far as my "feels" that you so presciently divine. Wrong. I have no investment in big pharma, and no family history of any diseases that I want to see cured.

If I feel anything it is people who support such ideas as yours deserve the consequences such a society would have on them personally. I would be fine no matter what the rules of the game are. It's called adapting and exploiting opportunities. Not waiting for someone to make life fair for me.

Under socialism I would most likely engage in black market profiteering. As would anyone with drive and ambition. You would hope that because of your enlightened promotion of such ideas that your socialist masters would make you one of the oligarchs that are always necessary to run such an apparatus. I can predict with confidence they would simply laugh at what a useful idiot you were and give you your pitiful allotment of ration coupons.

 

[Sean]

Brilliant. Once you nationalize all the important life saving drugs no pharmaceutical company will ever sink one dime into developing any new ones. We have cures for everything already, right?

You realize that the cost of developing a new drug includes all the drugs they tried to develop and failed at?

Thomas Edison discovered 999 ways that won't work for making a lightbulb before he found one that did work.

Edison never found a way of making the lightbulb work, he stole it from a British guy called Joseph Swan. Capitalism at its finest.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Under socialism I would most likely engage in black market profiteering. As would anyone with drive and ambition.

You're not already?

 

[Colonel Hogan]

The answer:

Oh-ho. It's government regulation. Manufacturers of generics need to compare their own prototype pills to Daraprim, before they can get government permission to market and sell a generic. Prescription laws make it hard to obtain Daraprim without a prescription and Turing's control over its own supply chain ensures that nothing leaks out. In essence, government restrictions on trade are giving Turing a monopoly on a patent free drug. Turing's price hike would be impossible without this government protection.

The New York Times article frames this as an issue of greed. But greed is a universal constant. It's always with us. Greed is never an explanation for unpleasant behavior. The real question is why nothing is acting as a check on greed. In this case, the government is blocking that market based check. I can see two solutions.

1. Stop restricting access to pharmaceuticals. If the FDA didn't tightly control drug distribution, generic manufacturers could easily obtain their own supply of Daraprim and start cranking out much cheaper copies. Turing would be forced to lower their prices to match and greed would be kept in check.
   
2. If you are going to restrict access to pharmaceuticals, there should be an exception in the law that allows generic manufacturers to easily obtain access to the main drug, for the purposes of cloning it. I see no good reason to give Turing Pharmaceuticals a government enforced monopoly on the drug's distribution and supply once the patent protections have expired.

http://minorthoughts.com/politics/why-daraprim-went-from-1350-to-750

 

[Yardley]

You're not already?

Well, I might have my hand in a few things. You know, just for practice.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The answer:

Well....MOAR government regulation is obviously the answer!

LOL

Well, I might have my hand in a few things. You know, just for practice.

It's the only way to get out of the slave shackles.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Well....MOAR government regulation is obviously the answer!

LOL

I believe you missed the whole point of my post. It was for the FDA to LESSEN its control over distribution of patent-free drugs and to LESSEN the RESTRICTIONS on potential competing producers of generic equivalents. LESS regulation is not MOAR.

 

[mdbigdee]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphan_Drug_Act_of_1983

 

[Raziel83]

1) more people need to die...the Earth is over populated.


2) don't need to nationalize pharmaceuticals to prevent shit like this from happening. Just make sure the insurance companies nor government are obligated to pay that price and he will come up off it soon enough.

Why would he reduce the costs just because the government or insurance companies have to pay it? The company would still make a fortune and the insurance companies would increase the cost of insurance or the government would increase taxes to pay for the drugs. In the end tax payers would be paying for the drugs and the company would be making a fortune on people who need the drug to stay alive.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/2...-a-drugs-price-raises-protests.html?referrer=


Had we kept the Capitalists out of this

this life-saving drug would still cost only $13.50

This is brilliant.

Make sure every researcher, developer and investor knows, for a fact, that there will be no profitability in the creation of new drugs. It sure makes me want to be the ultimate altruist and sacrifice everything, including my future, for the good of humanity.



BTW, whatever happened to all of the feel-good stories about a cure for AIDS being just about a year away? It's been a couple-three (-four) of years since we've seen any of those...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

These guys are not discovering the active ingredient in willow bark.

These are very, very advanced remedies for niche illnesses (that require advanced, specialized education, advanced specialized tools and procedures and vast amounts of investment capital from people willing to take a risk expecting a reasonable ROI) that do not lead to the economies of scale. Forcing them out of the business, however, would bring down the cost of medicine greatly, for eventually, all patents will have expired and no new ones issued. But we can cheaply provide end-of-life counseling for those conditions which are not "cost-effective" to treat.

This is the blame business first high school level of economic sophistry that I have come to expect from LT and the Liberals...

 

[BotanyBoy]

I believe you missed the whole point of my post. It was for the FDA to LESSEN its control over distribution of patent-free drugs and to LESSEN the RESTRICTIONS on potential competing producers of generic equivalents. LESS regulation is not MOAR.

Sarcasm.....If you notice I stated before you even that the only reason he's charging as much is that there was either insurance mandates or some law that get's him paid like that.

I agree totally there should be less bullshit restrictions.....

Why would he reduce the costs just because the government or insurance companies have to pay it?

You got it backwards.....companies/gov paying would be the only reason to charge that much.

The company would still make a fortune and the insurance companies would increase the cost of insurance or the government would increase taxes to pay for the drugs. In the end tax payers would be paying for the drugs and the company would be making a fortune on people who need the drug to stay alive.

Like I said, he only get's to charge that price because government/insurance fuck fuck rules that cover that cost.

If the government didn't have their dick all up in this business there would be no way for him to charge 700 bucks a pill, no one can afford that.

 

[Mad_Jack_Rabbit]

The drug is out of patent.

There is nothing to stop another drug company making it and selling it for $1 and fucking this git over.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

The drug is out of patent.

There is nothing to stop another drug company making it and selling it for $1 and fucking this git over.

Read the link I posted previously. There are plenty of obstacles which would discourage production of a generic equivalent and substantially slow it to market. The FDA needs to proactively remove those obstacles.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

That doesn't justify this guy's actions...he's just being a twat because he can and likely because he already knows some insurance company or gov rule will let him charge as much.



Some, not all......your' totally fucking delusional again. Why don't you just move to China where things are more your flavor?

You obviously loathe the USA and everything it stands for.

Nah, I'd rather ruin this country under your feet and watch you cry about it while it happens.

And it's going to happen.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Cite on drugs primarily coming out of universities, without the aid and support of Big Pharma research?

Why not just nationalize the pharmaceutical companies?

Socialism is based entirely on feelings about what is fair not what produces the greatest output for a given society. Output equals wealth. You can certainly whine about how that wealth is concentrated but there is no objective basis to suggest that central planning results in higher production yields much less innovation. There is no innovation without incentive.

Survival is incentive. People wanting to remedy illnesses will drive innovation. Has always driven innovation.

As far as my "feels" that you so presciently divine. Wrong. I have no investment in big pharma, and no family history of any diseases that I want to see cured.

Your feels are hurt because you wouldn't get to see other people die who were unfortunate enough to get sick while being poor. Your feels are hurt because this is an attack on your religious beliefs. Those religious beliefs being Capitalism.

Under socialism I would most likely engage in black market profiteering.

Good luck with that when the life saving medications are lower priced than you can hope to make a profit off of.

Maybe one day when you get sick and you have to pay $5000 for a pill you'll just go kill yourself and make the world a better place.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Nah, I'd rather ruin this country

I know, that's pretty obvious.

under your feet and watch you cry about it while it happens.

And it's going to happen.

Make me cry LOL that's cute....I'm already well on my way to being an ex pat fat cat bro. M'uricuh can burn I'll just GTFO and come back if and when the gravy train returns.

I just figured it would be easier to be happy if you left the place you obviously hate for one that better suits you.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Read the link I posted previously. There are plenty of obstacles which would discourage production of a generic equivalent and substantially slow it to market. The FDA needs to proactively remove those obstacles.

This is not the nature of government.

This is not the nature of a "Democracy" of laws.

Once the mob has decided to make itself "safer" and granted government the power to do just that, government does not rescind its power, rather its proclivity is to expand its power until law no longer matters. Government cares not for the laws of economics for it does not pay a price in any regulation or tax, it extracts it from the people.

Now you can go back to calling me stupid.

~Frisco~