question about voting blocks.. real? imagined? I'm just asking..

[jsmiam]

I'm curious about one thing, on voting blocks. Are they groups of fellow authors (or suspected to be)? Is there proof of their existence? Are there former participants willing to 'fess up? I'm newish here, but it sounds unlikely, if it's groups of authors. How would they not turn on one another?

What I see as likely, in rough order of probability (just my opinion)

- bitter angry readers, not authors, who one bomb whatever ignites their bitterness (like for example, the stereotypical LW reader reading a story about a wife cheating)
- moderately tech savvy author, willing to cheat, but not quite sophisticated enough, so sweeps catch them
- highly tech savvy author, willing to take the time through advanced methods to do all the same things as less advanced cheaters, but to get away with it successfully
- voting blocks of fans of an author, including spouses, their mom (or moms computer at least), the authors alter ego on their work computer (some crossover to lower tech cheating included)
- and (to me, least likely) Authors working together as a voting block

I'm asking because (myself included now and then), I don't see anyone here getting along well enough with other authors where they would help a potential competitor? Also, remembering my experience just as a reader before I dabbled in writing, I didn't pay attention to author names at all. if a title hit my buttons, I read, and that was that.

Anyway, I'm really asking from a standpoint of curiosity, since to me, voting blocks sound unlikely within the context of multiple authors being involved (obviously, I do believe in them, but in cases where it's all actually one person, not multiple people)

Edited: "willing", not "rolling". Damn phone!

 

[sr71plt]

The one currently being mooted here self-proclaimed along with being evident by mutual favoriting and story commenting, putting out an e-book anthology together, showing up en masse to gang bang forum posters not in the group--and yes, they turn on each other. That's what happened in this voting block. There was a falling out and that spilled over onto the forum, with various reveals for the rest of us. The dust up on most of this is already past us, so you wouldn't see it now if you tuned in late.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm curious about one thing, on voting blocks. Are they groups of fellow authors (or suspected to be)? Is there proof of their existence? Are there former participants rolling to 'fess up? I'm newish here, but it sounds unlikely, if it's groups of authors. How would they not turn on one another?

What I see as likely, in rough order of probability (just my opinion)

- bitter angry readers, not authors, who one bomb whatever ignites their bitterness (like for example, the stereotypical LW reader reading a story about a wife cheating)
- moderately tech savvy author, willing to cheat, but not quite sophisticated enough, so sweeps catch them
- highly tech savvy author, willing to take the time through advanced methods to do all the same things as less advanced cheaters, but to get away with it successfully
- voting blocks of fans of an author, including spouses, their mom (or moms computer at least), the authors alter ego on their work computer (some crossover to lower tech cheating included)
- and (to me, least likely) Authors working together as a voting block

I'm asking because (myself included now and then), I don't see anyone here getting along well enough with other authors where they would help a potential competitor? Also, remembering my experience just as a reader before I dabbled in writing, I didn't pay attention to author names at all. if a title hit my buttons, I read, and that was that.

Anyway, I'm really asking from a standpoint of curiosity, since to me, voting blocks sound unlikely within the context of multiple authors being involved (obviously, I do believe in them, but in cases where it's all actually one person, not multiple people)

They divide the categories. One does Romance, one does Gay, one does Mature.

 

[Laurel]

I'm curious about one thing, on voting blocks. Are they groups of fellow authors (or suspected to be)? Is there proof of their existence? Are there former participants willing to 'fess up? I'm newish here, but it sounds unlikely, if it's groups of authors. How would they not turn on one another?

What I see as likely, in rough order of probability (just my opinion)

- bitter angry readers, not authors, who one bomb whatever ignites their bitterness (like for example, the stereotypical LW reader reading a story about a wife cheating)
- moderately tech savvy author, willing to cheat, but not quite sophisticated enough, so sweeps catch them
- highly tech savvy author, willing to take the time through advanced methods to do all the same things as less advanced cheaters, but to get away with it successfully
- voting blocks of fans of an author, including spouses, their mom (or moms computer at least), the authors alter ego on their work computer (some crossover to lower tech cheating included)
- and (to me, least likely) Authors working together as a voting block

I'm asking because (myself included now and then), I don't see anyone here getting along well enough with other authors where they would help a potential competitor? Also, remembering my experience just as a reader before I dabbled in writing, I didn't pay attention to author names at all. if a title hit my buttons, I read, and that was that.

Anyway, I'm really asking from a standpoint of curiosity, since to me, voting blocks sound unlikely within the context of multiple authors being involved (obviously, I do believe in them, but in cases where it's all actually one person, not multiple people)

Edited: "willing", not "rolling". Damn phone!

I personally performed all the vote sweeps for this contest, just like I do for all themed and monthly contests. I have personally looked at the voting history of every story in the contest and I have to say - I see no evidence of any sort of "block".

Were there questionable votes? Yes, same as every contest since the site began. Did I see a group of users going around and systematically 1-voting certain work and 5-voting other work? No, I did not.

Even if a few authors here were all voting together, it would be a drop in the bucket, greatly outweighed by the general readership. If every active author on the AH banded together and voted as a block (each voting one time), they still couldn't dramatically affect the vote or the read count. And if they tried to vote more than once or 1-bomb as a group, that would be easily found and swept in the sweeps.

You all don't have to like each other. Personality conflicts are inevitable in any group of people. Heated arguments of an authorly/readerly nature are fantastic. But I do believe that these bitter flame wars and accusations are counter-productive and very much go against the purpose of the AH.

Let's get back to what the AH was created for: supporting our fellow authors.

 

[sr71plt]

That doesn't cover the waterfront on what goes on and how story voting is influenced (nor does it take into account admissions made on the forum on the existence of such groups and what they are trying to achieve), but then I don't expect the site to be able to control this. Some of the suggestions made would help, but, in the end, manipulation will happen--especially if there's money to be gained. I guess one personal response to it can be to stick one's head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I personally performed all the vote sweeps for this contest, just like I do for all themed and monthly contests. I have personally looked at the voting history of every story in the contest and I have to say - I see no evidence of any sort of "block".

Were there questionable votes? Yes, same as every contest since the site began. Did I see a group of users going around and systematically 1-voting certain work and 5-voting other work? No, I did not.

Even if a few authors here were all voting together, it would be a drop in the bucket, greatly outweighed by the general readership. If every active author on the AH banded together and voted as a block (each voting one time), they still couldn't dramatically affect the vote or the read count. And if they tried to vote more than once or 1-bomb as a group, that would be easily found and swept in the sweeps.

You all don't have to like each other. Personality conflicts are inevitable in any group of people. Heated arguments of an authorly/readerly nature are fantastic. But I do believe that these bitter flame wars and accusations are counter-productive and very much go against the purpose of the AH.

Let's get back to what the AH was created for: supporting our fellow authors.

Its just a coincidence how so many one bombs come at one time. The other numbers fall randomly but not the ONES.

 

[Laurel]

Some of the suggestions made would help, but, in the end, manipulation will happen--especially if there's money to be gained.

More than once we've had to bulk delete hundreds of nonsense-gibberish comments on made by a user trying to get their name on the Top Commenters list. There's no money prize there.

Across the web, much energy is spent trying to fraud one's way to the top of any number of popularity lists, just to have one's name there.

And a surprising number of winning authors never claim their prize, even though they are notified of their win.

I think wherever there are accolades, there will be people seeking them.

Its just a coincidence how so many one bombs come at one time. The other numbers fall randomly but not the ONES.

I'm not seeing that to be the case. I can see the time and date of all the votes, and I'm not seeing that pattern.

It's possible that because the voting totals update at intervals rather than in real time, it appears that they happen all at once.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

People are cowards and hate to make independent assessments of merit. If you load low scores or high scores at the front end of a competition the mean score tends to the low or high end. No one ever introduces new products or books with bad reviews. What you start with guides the results. Its bizness as usual at LIT. Sweeps cleanse the bogus scores but not before the harm is done, and the dirty dogs know it.

 

[Laurel]

People are cowards and hate to make independent assessments of merit. If you load low scores or high scores at the front end of a competition the mean score tends to the low or high end. No one ever introduces new products or books with bad reviews. What you start with guides the results. Its bizness as usual at all over the Internet, and anywhere that allows voting. Sweeps cleanse the bogus scores but not before the harm is done, and the dirty dogs know it.

FYP...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

More than once we've had to bulk delete hundreds of nonsense-gibberish comments on made by a user trying to get their name on the Top Commenters list. There's no money prize there.

Across the web, much energy is spent trying to fraud one's way to the top of any number of popularity lists, just to have one's name there.

And a surprising number of winning authors never claim their prize, even though they are notified of their win.

I think wherever there are accolades, there will be people seeking them.



I'm not seeing that to be the case. I can see the time and date of all the votes, and I'm not seeing that pattern.

It's possible that because the voting totals update at intervals rather than in real time, it appears that they happen all at once.

Okay. Makes sense, and you know how the machine works. If it aint happening I got it all wrong.

 

[Laurel]

Okay. Makes sense, and you know how the machine works. If it aint happening I got it all wrong.

People get really excited about the contests, which is great. But I think in the rush it's easy to forget that the goal is fun. The prize money isn't life-changing. The purpose is the challenge of writing to a theme. Special contests entries are by and large of extremely high quality - all of them, not just the winners.

I understand that not everyone gets along with everyone else, and that's fine. You don't have to like each other personally. But flaming the person you don't like is not going to change them into someone you do like. All it does is make everyone else unhappy and uncomfortable.

I think in this last contest, there were some personal squabbles going on between the various writers prior to the contest, and these snowballed until they blew up into a conspiracy.

For those who wondered, TTT didn't contact us about the posts made. However, several AHers (including a few above-the-fray longtime members) PMed to express their discomfort with accusations of this nature being made. That's how I was made aware of the situation.

The negativity and flaming has been increasing over the past few years. We've taken a largely hands-off approach to the AH thinking it was a phase, and that time and the use of Ignore would change things. But too many people are increasingly uncomfortable here.

The General Board is a freer-form space with fewer restrictions. More rough-and-tumble conversations are welcome there.

The Author's Hangout was meant to be just that - a hangout for authors. A place where writers could find support and likeminded conversation. It shouldn't be just for the thick-skinned - it should be for all writers.

 

[TxRad]

It is not block voting or trolling that is the problem. The sweeps pretty much control that. Too well in this case.

Want to try and experiment?

Pick a low vote category. Write a 3+ page story. About a third of the way in puts something icky like a rape or M/M, have a HEA ending.

Now watch the score. Make sure and catch the end of the month or contest sweep and see how high the score jumps.

You now have the formula for a contest winning story but you have to post it late, just before the contest closes. You too can be an award winning author.

 

[Laurel]

It is not block voting or trolling that is the problem. The sweeps pretty much control that. Too well in this case.

Want to try and experiment?

Pick a low vote category. Write a 3+ page story. About a third of the way in puts something icky like a rape or M/M, have a HEA ending.

Now watch the score. Make sure and catch the end of the month or contest sweep and see how high the score jumps.

You now have the formula for a contest winning story but you have to post it late, just before the contest closes. You too can be an award winning author.

That's pretty interesting! Has anyone every gone over all the monthly and special contest winners to see how many of them follow that pattern?

If it's true, then I guess in that way the Lit mainstream audience is no different from the mainstream music audience, or the average movie viewer. There's a definite formula to writing a pop hit or a summer blockbuster. Maybe the same applies here.

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

I'm new here as well, but I'm far from new on chat boards... And unfortunately, almost every board I've ever seen has had trolls, sociopaths, and flame wars... Sad, but true.

I came here knowing that I wanted to share my writing, but just as aware of the fact that there would be an entrenched social order that wouldn't want to share.

My decision was to come in with 2 personalities... One that writes and doesn't chat, and one that chats but doesn't write.

Sort of like one of our romance heroines who is afraid to open herself up to being loved again... heh!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It is not block voting or trolling that is the problem. The sweeps pretty much control that. Too well in this case.

Want to try and experiment?

Pick a low vote category. Write a 3+ page story. About a third of the way in puts something icky like a rape or M/M, have a HEA ending.

Now watch the score. Make sure and catch the end of the month or contest sweep and see how high the score jumps.

You now have the formula for a contest winning story but you have to post it late, just before the contest closes. You too can be an award winning author.

I have ONE red H. I wrote the story purposely to test a hypothesis about LIT readers. They dislike controversy and want something plausible and naughty. But I don't want to write stories about the time Mike and Carol went on vacation with Alice and Sam to Gary, Indiana.

 

[TxRad]

That's pretty interesting! Has anyone every gone over all the monthly and special contest winners to see how many of them follow that pattern?

If it's true, then I guess in that way the Lit mainstream audience is no different from the mainstream music audience, or the average movie viewer. There's a definite formula to writing a pop hit or a summer blockbuster. Maybe the same applies here.

As a matter of fact, yes they have but your mileage may vary.

 

[TxRad]

I have ONE red H. I wrote the story purposely to test a hypothesis about LIT readers. They dislike controversy and want something plausible and naughty. But I don't want to write stories about the time Mike and Carol went on vacation with Alice and Sam to Gary, Indiana.

As they say, write what you want to write but you also have to accept the consequences of what the reader wants and expects.

 

[sr71plt]

For those who wondered, TTT didn't contact us about the posts made. However, several AHers (including a few above-the-fray longtime members) PMed to express their discomfort with accusations of this nature being made. That's how I was made aware of the situation.

Since it was hinted in a thread, I'll establish that I wasn't one who complained. You could have slipped this new wording in the rules over two years ago, targeting the same poster, I surmise, and, if you enforced it, it would have saved me a lot of personal attacks and probably kept the AH from sinking to where it did. But I wasn't one of the ones who complained (that said--and relevant to this thread--I'd sure like to see that list of "longtime members" you think are "above-the-fray" who complained to you. )

The Author's Hangout was meant to be just that - a hangout for authors. A place where writers could find support and likeminded conversation. It shouldn't be just for the thick-skinned - it should be for all writers.

This is a great statement for who the AH was meant for. I'm going to tuck it away somewhere and am sure I'll find several occasions to roll it back out.

 

[sr71plt]

And a surprising number of winning authors never claim their prize, even though they are notified of their win.

Contest winners are notified of their win? Other than posting it to the forum? There have been posts claiming this wasn't done and the general thought here is that it isn't done. You PM or e-mail contest winners/placers of their win?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

People get really excited about the contests, which is great. But I think in the rush it's easy to forget that the goal is fun. The prize money isn't life-changing. The purpose is the challenge of writing to a theme. Special contests entries are by and large of extremely high quality - all of them, not just the winners.

I understand that not everyone gets along with everyone else, and that's fine. You don't have to like each other personally. But flaming the person you don't like is not going to change them into someone you do like. All it does is make everyone else unhappy and uncomfortable.

I think in this last contest, there were some personal squabbles going on between the various writers prior to the contest, and these snowballed until they blew up into a conspiracy.

For those who wondered, TTT didn't contact us about the posts made. However, several AHers (including a few above-the-fray longtime members) PMed to express their discomfort with accusations of this nature being made. That's how I was made aware of the situation.

The negativity and flaming has been increasing over the past few years. We've taken a largely hands-off approach to the AH thinking it was a phase, and that time and the use of Ignore would change things. But too many people are increasingly uncomfortable here.

The General Board is a freer-form space with fewer restrictions. More rough-and-tumble conversations are welcome there.

The Author's Hangout was meant to be just that - a hangout for authors. A place where writers could find support and likeminded conversation. It shouldn't be just for the thick-skinned - it should be for all writers.

My mom tried to murder me and my sister when I was 3. But I was born to brawl and she was my first victory in the arena. I'm flawed and alive. I appreciate your endeavors to operate a happy place. I try to color inside the lines NOT on the walls. But I'm half Scottish and half Irish.

 

[TxRad]

Contest winners are notified of their win? Other than posting it to the forum? There have been posts claiming this wasn't done and the general thought here is that it isn't done. You PM or e-mail contest winners/placers of their win?

It seems so ever since the flap over the monthlys being so far behind and then getting caught up.

 

[sr71plt]

It seems so ever since the flap over the monthlys being so far behind and then getting caught up.

Great that it's happening now, then.

 

[Laurel]

My mom tried to murder me and my sister when I was 3. But I was born to brawl and she was my first victory in the arena. I'm flawed and alive. I appreciate your endeavors to operate a happy place. I try to color inside the lines NOT on the walls. But I'm half Scottish and half Irish.

A strong mix! My childhood neighbor was half-Irish/half-Scottish as well. At 98 years old she was still out every morning tending the massive rose bushes lining her yard. I think she lived to be 103. Amazing lady.

 

[Rozalin_0123]

Contest winners are notified of their win? Other than posting it to the forum? There have been posts claiming this wasn't done and the general thought here is that it isn't done. You PM or e-mail contest winners/placers of their win?

For what it's worth, I was contacted by Laurel and chargergirl the day winners were announced for last year's Halloween contest. So winners have been notified at least that far back.

 

[lovecraft68]

Contest winners are notified of their win? Other than posting it to the forum? There have been posts claiming this wasn't done and the general thought here is that it isn't done. You PM or e-mail contest winners/placers of their win?

Yes I received both a PM and an e-mail saying I won first in the July monthly.

Thought that was a bit of karma seeing that story was bombed out of placing in Nude Day.