No one is forced to work at a wage they do not think is as valuable as ...

[BoyNextDoor]

"No one is forced to work at a wage they do not think is as valuable as their contribution." was the assertion made in another thread. I am calling bullshit.

To make it fit the characters allowed in the text box for the pole:

Is anyone forced to work at a wage they do not think is as valuable as their labor?

 

[Sunshine]

False

 

[BoyNextDoor]

I would argue that 99% of the global population is forced to work at a wage they do not think is as valuable as their labor.

Do you think you should earn more money given your contribution to the enterprise? How did the company you work for do last year? did it turn a profit?

 

[BabblingBrooke]

Are you asking if the reader thinks he or she is paid less than their worth? Or if the reader thinks ANYONE is paid thusly?

I think I am well-compensated for a fun job I love. I do know people who have struggled to find employment and have certainly settled for far less than their value, but the word "forced" is likely not accurate.

 

[Sunshine]

Yes they are forced.

 

[BabblingBrooke]

Globally? Yeah, that's another whole can of worms.

 

[eyer]

Shut the fuck up and keep sucking.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Are you asking if the reader thinks he or she is paid less than their worth? Or if the reader thinks ANYONE is paid thusly?

I think I am well-compensated for a fun job I love. I do know people who have struggled to find employment and have certainly settled for far less than their value, but the word "forced" is likely not accurate.

I am asking what you think.

I will tell you that I believe that of necessity you are paid less than what you are worth because if you were paid equal or more then the capitalist fundamental class process could not exist. It is only by paying you less than what you are worth that capitalism can work.

That should make you angry.

 

[hashtag45]

Shut the fuck up and keep sucking.

lol…
more likely as a job on Lit

 

[BabblingBrooke]

I am asking what you think.

I will tell you that I believe that of necessity you are paid less than what you are worth because if you were paid equal or more then the capitalist fundamental class process could not exist. It is only by paying you less than what you are worth that capitalism can work.

That should make you angry.

Perhaps it should make me angry.

I understand capitalism and agree that corporations must make a profit and therefore, out of necessity, do pay people less than they could. I do think our society's norms for high CEO salaries and comparatively ridiculously low wages for hourly employees is disgusting. When schools employ extra admin with funds that could put more teachers in the classroom, that is equally disturbing. I see a great deal of injustice in our system. I don't know how to fix it, though; I think every system has flaws.

For me personally, I earn plenty and I'm happy and I love working every day. I'm quite fortunate.

 

[hashtag45]

said it twice…
we got it… (s)he's paid well

 

[BoyNextDoor]

said it twice…
we got it… (s)he's paid well

Beware of jealousy, my lord! It's a green-eyed monster that makes fun of the victims it devours.
- Shakespere

 

[hashtag45]

Beware of jealousy, my lord! It's a green-eyed monster that makes fun of the victims it devours.
- Shakespere

so I get you're on minimal wage

 

[Sunshine]

so I get you're on minimal wage

WAAAAAAAAAAAY off. way.

 

[bronzeage]

What actually happens is a person reduces their output until they think the work they do is worth the pay.

No one can be forced to work harder than they want to.

 

[Aglaopheme]

People need to make a living wage. The pay ratio between workers and CEOs has drastically changed since the heyday of the American middle class.

Academic research shows that the worker-to-C.E.O. gulf has been widening. According to a 2014 study by Alyssa Davis and Lawrence Mishel at the Economic Policy Institute, a left-leaning advocacy group in Washington with a reputation for rigorous studies, chief executive pay as a multiple of the typical worker’s pay rocketed from an average of 20 times in 1965 to 295.9 in 2013.

Granted, it is a left-leaning source, but I don't know that anyone is disputing the growth in the gap.

I do take objection to the use of the word forced though. Need to or have to, yep.

 

[Libsam]

Remember the CEO/owner of a financing firm in Seattle who got national attention for raising his minimum salary earners from 40k to 70k?

Yeah... things ain't looking so good for his business atm.

He lost some of his best talent who didn't think it was fair for new hires to get a raise when they had earned theirs with loyalty & performance.

He lost some long standing accounts holders who anticipated fee hikes.

He is being sued by the co-founder who didn't agree with this budgeting decision.

 

[hashtag45]

Karl Marx (and Not Stalin, Lenin aka those who applied his theory - their way) was misunderstood, both philosophically and from a social systems perspective.

Americans are starting to wake up :

www.truthdig.com/report/item/karl_marx_was_right_20150531

 

[jezzilee]

Is the key word forced? I mean, you work for a living at a job you do not think pays you what you are worth... but are you forced or do you have free will to find a job that pays more, or obtain more education so you are worth more...?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Remember the CEO/owner of a financing firm in Seattle who got national attention for raising his minimum salary earners from 40k to 70k?

Yeah... things ain't looking so good for his business atm.

He lost some of his best talent who didn't think it was fair for new hires to get a raise when they had earned theirs with loyalty & performance.

He lost some long standing accounts holders who anticipated fee hikes.

He is being sued by the co-founder who didn't agree with this budgeting decision.

No. Smells like BULLSHIT

 

[hashtag45]

Is the key word forced? I mean, you work for a living at a job you do not think pays you what you are worth... but are you forced or do you have free will to find a job that pays more, or obtain more education so you are worth more...?

forced is the word.
See all the people who can't find jobs or can't use their degrees.
Or : all those people who would have loved to go into more abstract or humanistic disciplines, but had to go for the more practical paying ones instead

 

[jezzilee]

forced is the word.
See all the people who can't find jobs or can't use their degrees.
Or : all those people who would have loved to go into more abstract or humanistic disciplines, but had to go for the more practical paying ones instead

You are still not forced to. No one is holding a gun to your head.

 

[Que Va]

What makes the worth of what you do in a first world country somehow worth intrinsically more than having the exact same function performed in a third world country? What value do you add to the labor process that a third-worlder does not if the output and quality is exactly the same?

Of what value is your labor if it can be done by a machine that can be constructed, operated and maintained for less than the cost of your labor?

Before you start talking about a "living wage" for a first world person what are you doing to level the wages up of the third world? Declining wages in real terms is a function of the devaluation of currency through inflation coupled with the value of labor worldwide seeking balance.

Just because your father's generation and made 100 times what a third worlder made does not mean you can expect that inequity to accrue to you.

 

[hashtag45]

You are still not forced to. No one is holding a gun to your head.

yeah… In my case, I guess it was because of family (albeit well intended) expectations. But others have large families or sick family members & bills to pay

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Is the key word forced? I mean, you work for a living at a job you do not think pays you what you are worth... but are you forced or do you have free will to find a job that pays more, or obtain more education so you are worth more...?

You have the free will to go and sell your labor for the same shitty deal: of necessity sell your labor to have it create more wealth for someone else then they will pay you for it.

So the difference between "forced" and "given no options" is pretty negligible.
Finding a job that pays more just means that you are creating more wealth for someone else for which you will receive an increasingly disproportionate share. Isn't that a brutal thought? The more you make the more you are exploited. Of necessity..

It is the reflection of what Bronze was talking about when he said "What actually happens is a person reduces their output until they think the work they do is worth the pay".