Story rejected after being up for 5 days

[Vanadorn]

I'm a bit bummed out. I had submitted a flash story, Flash of Muzzle, (Loving Wives) last week and it was rejected as being a bit violent graphic. Ok, I can see that. So I cleaned it up, toned it down, and resubmitted it with a thank you to Laurel and Manu for their efforts.

It was approved on the 30th of May and went live. Ok - no issue, no problem.

So it's up for 5 days and I have submitted 2 more since then and when I logged on tonight for a few minutes, I noticed that my submission count is down 1 and that the tale is now marked for "rejection". I don't know why. It was approved, up for 5 days, read almost 40k times, had over 1k votes and 60 something comments. Why take it down now?

I wrote to Laurel privately from the main site and again here - just looking for an answer before I try to send it in again to get posted once more.

Just venting here I guess. Took some time off writing smut to take care of other projects and was just getting back into it. This sort of took a bit of the wind out of my sails I suppose.

-V

 

[Weird Harold]

...marked for "rejection". I don't know why. It was approved, up for 5 days, read almost 40k times, had over 1k votes and 60 something comments. Why take it down now?

Follow the link under the world "rejected" for the reason it was rejected -- usually in the form of a question.

Delayed "rejection" is usually the result of someone reporting your story for a rules violation. The "rejection" is to give you a chance for a rebuttal.

 

[lovecraft68]

When you say flash story, I am assuming you mean every short?

If that's the case then its strange it was approved then when it was reported Laurel chose to 'uphold' the complaint and reject it again. Reason its strange is if its flash fiction one would think she would read the entire thing closely

I find it odd to see anything reported in LW that category is a friggin cesspool or rape, torture, humiliation, murder, cocks and tits being lopped off....it really is a mini asstr.org right here on lit.

 

[DeYaKen]

I'm a bit bummed out. I had submitted a flash story, Flash of Muzzle, (Loving Wives) last week and it was rejected as being a bit violent graphic. Ok, I can see that. So I cleaned it up, toned it down, and resubmitted it with a thank you to Laurel and Manu for their efforts.

It was approved on the 30th of May and went live. Ok - no issue, no problem.

So it's up for 5 days and I have submitted 2 more since then and when I logged on tonight for a few minutes, I noticed that my submission count is down 1 and that the tale is now marked for "rejection". I don't know why. It was approved, up for 5 days, read almost 40k times, had over 1k votes and 60 something comments. Why take it down now?

I wrote to Laurel privately from the main site and again here - just looking for an answer before I try to send it in again to get posted once more.

Just venting here I guess. Took some time off writing smut to take care of other projects and was just getting back into it. This sort of took a bit of the wind out of my sails I suppose.

-V

Well I read your story. It wasn't to my taste so I didn't comment. It did seem to be gratuitously violent, my guess is that someone has reported it as a snuff story. From what I remember of it there could be an argument for that. Although I would normally classify a snuff story as one in which the reader or a character gets sexual gratification from killing, there was the hint in your story that someone did indeed get some gratification albeit not sexual. However, you did say at the end that you were dramatising a real life event, and I gave you credit for that.
My guess again is that following a complaint Laurel has reread the story and seen it from a different viewpoint. Only she can tell you that so as other people have said, you have to follow through on the reasons for rejection.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

If it was more than 750 words, it meets Lit's criteria but less is not allowed.

 

[Vanadorn]

Laurel took the time out to personally reply and after a night to mull it over I am much happier. I tweaked the story and smoothed out some of the potential issues - eventually resubmitted it. In doing so I also fleshed out a bit of the husband's thoughts so that no one can say "Ohh - snuff porn - oooh!" - Because - wow, totally not the case.

Now, I have to work for a bit - lol

-V

 

[lovecraft68]

Well I read your story. It wasn't to my taste so I didn't comment. It did seem to be gratuitously violent, my guess is that someone has reported it as a snuff story. From what I remember of it there could be an argument for that. Although I would normally classify a snuff story as one in which the reader or a character gets sexual gratification from killing, there was the hint in your story that someone did indeed get some gratification albeit not sexual. However, you did say at the end that you were dramatising a real life event, and I gave you credit for that.
My guess again is that following a complaint Laurel has reread the story and seen it from a different viewpoint. Only she can tell you that so as other people have said, you have to follow through on the reasons for rejection.

Wait...so it was close to snuff-we'll leave it at that-and the author posted it was a real life event?

Then it should be rejected, just as any story of rape that was claimed to be real should or any under age story... or any incest story that seems as if its really under age....

"Hey look, I'm insinuating I killed someone".....wow.

 

[Vanadorn]

Nope, no snuff. Wasn't even implied.

The end of the flash stories have a news clip that sort of give the short short version that one would hear on the new station. That's what Deyaken is referring to.

Nothing real - no one got hurt or killed in the making of the story.

-V

 

[Laurel]

Laurel took the time out to personally reply and after a night to mull it over I am much happier. I tweaked the story and smoothed out some of the potential issues - eventually resubmitted it. In doing so I also fleshed out a bit of the husband's thoughts so that no one can say "Ohh - snuff porn - oooh!" - Because - wow, totally not the case.

Now, I have to work for a bit - lol

-V

 

[Katiecat]

Okay, I read it...and remembered exactly why I do not read stories in the LW category. I don't understand what this kind of story has to do with "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more." It seems like maybe there should just be a totally separate category for BTB, so people looking for this kind of story will know exactly where to go. There seems to be a strong fan base, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with erotica. I don't see any comments about the story being sexy or hot. I read, "FUCKING YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS KILL DA FUCKING SLUT FIVE STARS HOMBRE".

I dunno. Maybe that was indicative of sexual arousal. I certainly hope not.

The husband caught the wife giving a blow job to one of their friends, so he kills the guy, then kills the wife. The news story at the end confirms that it was a double murder.

By definition, fiction can't really be "snuff" because it's not real so someone didn't actually die. At least that's the definition of a snuff film -- is there a different definition for "snuff" regarding fiction stories? It just seems like a violent story about a double homicide.

I'm confused. Can someone clarify the rules?

 

[Laurel]

By definition, fiction can't really be "snuff" because it's not real so someone didn't actually die. At least that's the definition of a snuff film -- is there a different definition for "snuff" regarding fiction stories?

For the purposes of the site, "snuff" is defined as death depicted for the purposes of sexual arousal.

We allow depictions of violence on the site, such as those in action, adventure, crime dramas/mysteries, thrillers, horror, and many other genres.

We don't allow death or extreme mutilation/torture described with the intent of sexual arousal/titillation.

It just seems like a violent story about a double homicide.

I agree.

 

[Vanadorn]

Katiecat, one of the wonderful things about Lit is that there is a humongous melting pot of interests and talents for everyone across the board. The best types of communities are the ones where there are guidepost and gentle rules established – but everyone is still entitled to their voice, opinion, and interests.

There are people who like to read lesbian sex (just using it as an example – that’s all!) for a number of reasons but the same stories would be a complete turn off for others. Also, not every story has to have sex in it – some stories do, some don’t – and that’s ok.

For every story that has a sex scene, there are many that don’t – and the reciprocal is true as well.

As for the morass that is Loving Wives – like any community, things change, morph, alter, and expand. Whatever it might have been thought of in ’99 isn’t what it is in ’15. And that’s ok. Like other communities, it’s a melting pot and things come and go. In 5 more years it will look different and so on.

As for some of the comments – that’s everywhere. It’s the internet, and people love to fling poo behind their anonymous shields at the other monkeys in the monkey house. There will be narrow minded people on all sides of the alley – to avoid them, just stay away from the fringes and ignore them.

Like anything else, any story, new report, tale – can be reduced to a line or two – often cold and missing most of the nuances and points. Hamlet is about an indecisive young king who is bent for revenge. Casablanca is about a resistance husband and wife looking to leave nazi occupied territory. The Wizard of Oz is about a farm girl’s hallucinations after being caught in a Kansas tornado.

None of those describe the story itself – the part that some people will find interesting, and others will not.

And like any free society or community, if there is something you don’t like, don’t participate in it. In High School or College you did not have participate in the Muslim Brotherhood Meetings on Tuesdays @ 6, or gather for a Doors and Who party at Branford hall on Friday night, or participate in Professor Guilchrist’s nature walk this upcoming Saturday morning. Most people just went and go – because they did – and pick and choose the things they like – ignoring everything around it. I can go to SUNY Stoney Brook and see hundreds of things that I might not be directly interested in, taking all business classes and participating in Lacrosse but does that mean my experience there matters more than the people who go there for nursing degree and play in one of the acoustic bands? No.

And Lit is the same. Respect the others here and their efforts and talents, enjoy what you like and understand that your colored thread in the tapestry isn’t the same as someone else’s – but it’s no less important.

-V

 

[rjordan]

I read the story when it was first posted. I probably read more LW than any other category. The tension between two married people and an interfering third can be very dramatic, and often produces a good story.

I don't enjoy willing cuckold, dalliances of open marriage or swinging couples or meticulously planned revenge stories. They are easy to ignore.

But I had no problem with Vanadorn's story. It wasn't about the revenge. It was about a man being pushed over the edge. It was no different than a lot of television drama during prime time. The level of violence was far below what is shown on the news where we watch dispassionate pilots chatting over a flir video of pickup trucks and people being blown to smithereens (haven't used that word in decades.

Sometimes that is the outcome of cheating as the news blurb at the end attests. It happens far more than the highly crafted revenge outcomes that are a favorite on LW.

There are no hard and fast rules for LW or any other category. Many stories don't fit any category well. Most stories fit multiple categories. The answer isn't to add more categories. The answer is to set broad and loose guidelines for categories and that's what we have.

We also have fairly clear rules for what cannot be depicted in any story with reasonable enforcement and ways to appeal and negotiate as Vanadorn and Laurel demonstrated with this story.

And we each have our own filters to ignore any story that doesn't appeal to us.

rj

 

[sr71plt]

And we each have our own filters to ignore any story that doesn't appeal to us.

It seems there are a lot of folks around not willing to take this responsibility for themselves.

 

[Katiecat]

You are not getting what I'm saying.

It's a story about murder. Putting a blow job in the story doesn't make it erotica -- unless you are trying to sexually titillate your readers with a depiction of murder. If you are, then per Laurel's post above, that is a violation of Lit's site rules:

For the purposes of the site, "snuff" is defined as death depicted for the purposes of sexual arousal.

We allow depictions of violence on the site, such as those in action, adventure, crime dramas/mysteries, thrillers, horror, and many other genres.

We don't allow death or extreme mutilation/torture described with the intent of sexual arousal/titillation.

As for the morass that is Loving Wives – like any community, things change, morph, alter, and expand. Whatever it might have been thought of in ’99 isn’t what it is in ’15. And that’s ok. Like other communities, it’s a melting pot and things come and go. In 5 more years it will look different and so on.

If a new reader comes to Lit and sees the description of the LW category: "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more", that is what they will expect in that category. They will not be expecting a story like yours. If there were complaints after your story was posted, I imagine they were from readers who were expecting stories about "married extra-marital fun".

If the category has morphed that much, then the description of the category should be rewritten. Or BTB stories like yours, should have their own category. There are plenty of authors who write that genre, and plenty of readers like "KILL DA FUCKING SLUT" I quoted from the first comment I read on your story. But if you are writing depictions of murder and trying to make them sexually arousing, then it's a violation of Lit rules.

And like any free society or community, if there is something you don’t like, don’t participate in it.

That is why I wrote that I "remembered exactly why I do not read stories in the LW category." The only reason I read it was because of this post, and your questions about why it was rejected after 5 days. I did not vote, I did not comment, and if I wasn't trying to answer your question, I never would have even read it.

Either you were writing murder as erotica - in which case, the story should have been rejected -- or you weren't writing erotica at all, and the description of the category is flawed.

 

[Vanadorn]

This is just one of those things that we'll have to accept that we don't see eye to eye on - and that's ok. Really it is.

Further division of categories aren't going to help - remember, broad strokes and guides work best - not rigid fences and unyielding walls. No one wants to be a part of that. When you get into a homogenized pool of people the one thing that stands out is, "damn, isn't anyone in here different?"

As Married extra-marital fun - where does it say that both parties have to enjoy that? That's what the cheating stories look at - the reality of a relationship where one person looks outside the boundaries of marriage for something extra and the other person isn't a part of that.

Again, thank you for your thoughts and opinions because it's things like this that show how great the community is here at Lit and how many viewpoints there are of those who make up it's members.

Not everyone is "Kill da fucking slut" and not everyone is "string up that snuff porn writing scumbag by his testicles" - most everyone is all over between those two poles.

-V

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

I find it odd to see anything reported in LW that category is a friggin cesspool or rape, torture, humiliation, murder, cocks and tits being lopped off....it really is a mini asstr.org right here on lit.

Oh what a vile site. I stumbled across that filth years ago. It nearly put me off erotica. Then I found here. Much happier. I think asstr.org is just for people who get off on underage erotica and nasty snuff... or both combined.

Very unimaginative, sick and I'm sure illegal. I'm just shocked as to how it's stayed online.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Oh what a vile site. I stumbled across that filth years ago. It nearly put me off erotica. Then I found here. Much happier. I think asstr.org is just for people who get off on underage erotica and nasty snuff... or both combined.

Very unimaginative, sick and I'm sure illegal. I'm just shocked as to how it's stayed online.

My understanding is that ASSTR is hosted in the USA, and that it's not illegal in the USA to write about underage sex or snuff - the First Amendment severely limits government's ability to legislate about such things. Take "American Psycho" and Piers Anthony's "Firefly" (no relation to Whedon's) as examples of what can be published commercially.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

My understanding is that ASSTR is hosted in the USA, and that it's not illegal in the USA to write about underage sex or snuff - the First Amendment severely limits government's ability to legislate about such things. Take "American Psycho" and Piers Anthony's "Firefly" (no relation to Whedon's) as examples of what can be published commercially.

Ah thanks for clarifying. I wasn't thinking about the constitutional implications but you're right, they have the right.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

My understanding is that ASSTR is hosted in the USA, and that it's not illegal in the USA to write about underage sex or snuff - the First Amendment severely limits government's ability to legislate about such things. Take "American Psycho" and Piers Anthony's "Firefly" (no relation to Whedon's) as examples of what can be published commercially.

Might as well add 'Flowers in the attic' or the new video game 'Hatred'.

 

[rjordan]

I find it odd to see anything reported in LW that category is a friggin cesspool or rape, torture, humiliation, murder, cocks and tits being lopped off....it really is a mini asstr.org right here on lit.

I find it odd that someone who writes mostly incest/taboo stories can be so self-righteous about others reading preferences.

Though laws vary considerably from one jurisdiction to another within the U.S., incest is a crime in many of them. In some jurisdictions even sex between step-relations is criminal. So broadly, it puts incest on a list of felonies with rape, torture, humiliation, murder and lopping off human appendages.

What you have described as a cesspool is standard fare on cable television, though incest is not often depicted on television.

rj

 

[sr71plt]

I find it odd that someone who writes mostly incest/taboo stories can be so self-righteous about others reading preferences.

That's our Hatecraft.

 

[lovecraft68]

I find it odd that someone who writes mostly incest/taboo stories can be so self-righteous about others reading preferences.

Though laws vary considerably from one jurisdiction to another within the U.S., incest is a crime in many of them. In some jurisdictions even sex between step-relations is criminal. So broadly, it puts incest on a list of felonies with rape, torture, humiliation, murder and lopping off human appendages.

What you have described as a cesspool is standard fare on cable television, though incest is not often depicted on television.

rj

My point before you felt like jumping me is very simple and if you had read it without a preconceived desire to attack me you would get what I was saying.

LW is a pit of torture and violence and every type of degradation and humiliation you can think of women and men. Its more degrading and humiliating than BDSM and more sexually violent than Non consent.

Meaning....my point is very simple it surprises me anything is rejected there. IT seems as if no rules apply in that category.

Fact is anyone can point anywhere, its their right, just some have more to back it up than others. I'll refrain from my list of how the one true sex crime is rape yet the rape scum spend all day pointing at incest or beastie to take the attention away from them, but I won't.

I'll stick to the point There are countless stories in LW that break torture and rape rules and snuff so yeah excuse me if I think its a joke seeing an LW story banned for anything.

Oh, and BTW your last comment about incest not being depicted on TV....Game of Thrones? Nip Tuck? I think Dexter had a story line that involved incest(Then it turned out to be step or half) Flowers in the Attic was recently turned into a movie (or redone, I forget which)

So you can add it to the other list of portrayals of all things nasty on TV and let's not forget porn, it is everywhere in porn

Kay Parker's Taboo set it all in motion years ago.

 

[rjordan]

My point before you felt like jumping me is very simple and if you had read it without a preconceived desire to attack me you would get what I was saying.

[snip]

Oh, and BTW your last comment about incest not being depicted on TV....Game of Thrones? Nip Tuck? I think Dexter had a story line that involved incest(Then it turned out to be step or half) Flowers in the Attic was recently turned into a movie (or redone, I forget which)

So you can add it to the other list of portrayals of all things nasty on TV and let's not forget porn, it is everywhere in porn

I don't have any preconceived desire to attack you. I don't even know you, nor have I read your stories.

I also made a point to say incest is not OFTEN depicted on television. I'll go further to guess that when it is a story element, it is not considered in a positive light. As you say, it belongs in a list of "all things nasty" for most people.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

I don't have any preconceived desire to attack you. I don't even know you, nor have I read your stories.

I also made a point to say incest is not OFTEN depicted on television. I'll go further to guess that when it is a story element, it is not considered in a positive light. As you say, it belongs in a list of "all things nasty" for most people.

I'd never stopped to think of GoT - although I've never seen a full episode I'm familiar with the books. You're right about it being everywhere. Not getting in on the moral arguments of incest but in a television/film/book portrayal I can never see it being portrayed as anything other than an 'aberration/deviant/rape sort of a portrayal. Simply because broadcasters will have a fit... distributors won't touch it and advertisers would boycott the TV show/station.

I find it ironic that when I was a young girl I heard of a mainstream film (Jeepers Creepers) I think, being made by a convicted child abuser and they pretty much dropped the directors name and promoted the producer Francis Ford Copolla. That always felt a bit disturbing. I've not seen the film but my brother has and says when you know about the director it does color certain shots and themes in the film and the way the director composed them.