Rand Paul's Patriot Act Filibuster

[Paendragon]

What say you?

I know it was useless, but it made me smile to see him at least taking a stand.

 

[Aglaopheme]

This is one issue one which Rand Paul and I can agree.

 

[patient1]

I'm glad he took a stand against it.

Federal politicians take an oath of office to The Constitution. He's the only presidential hopeful, so far, who takes that seriously.

I wonder if Obama has the balls to veto it. That would secure the president's place in history.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I wonder if Obama has the balls to veto it. That would secure the president's place in history.

He's bought n' paid for.....not happening.

 

[Paendragon]

I'm glad he took a stand against it.

Federal politicians take an oath of office to The Constitution. He's the only presidential hopeful, so far, who takes that seriously.

I wonder if Obama has the balls to veto it. That would secure the president's place in history.

Good luck with that . . .

 

[about_average]

So a republican follows in the steps of Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) and it's news? Yeah, I suppose it is.

 

[Aglaopheme]

So a republican follows in the steps of Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) and it's news? Yeah, I suppose it is.

Speaking of Feingold.......glad he's running to take his seat back from Johnson.

 

[patient1]

He's bought n' paid for.....not happening.

Good luck with that . . .

Presidents and their hangers on tend to get pre-occupied with "their place in history" midway through their second term. Some presidents, like Clinton, are people pleasers and want everybody to like them. I've always thought that Obama was a narcissist at heart, in love with the sound of his own voice.

I'm counting on his narcissism here, because it's one of the few things he could do on his own, and it would mollify his legacy as the drone executioner, and the Guantanamo flip-flopper.

 

[Sean Renaud]

He's bought n' paid for.....not happening.

Also there is a well founded fear for him. If he does veto the Patriot act and anything at all happens over the next six years the Democrats will cease to be a party entirely and we'll have decades of majority Republicans and everybody knows it. To quote Men in Black. "A person is smart, people are dumb panicky animals." Politics being the art of the possible and also a predictionary art I'm not sure if I was in his position I do anything as bold as a veto on this either.

Presidents and their hangers on tend to get pre-occupied with "their place in history" midway through their second term. Some presidents, like Clinton, are people pleasers and want everybody to like them. I've always thought that Obama was a narcissist at heart, in love with the sound of his own voice.

I'm counting on his narcissism here, because it's one of the few things he could do on his own, and it would mollify his legacy as the drone executioner, and the Guantanamo flip-flopper.

How is he a G-Bay flip-flopper. I think his stance has remained exactly the same the entire time. It's a travesty and aught be closed. The fact that he didn't waste energy fighting on something that was never going to get through Congress and on the incredible chance that it did state governments or their home countries had to accept the remaining prisoners doesn't make him a flip-flopper. At worst it makes him a quitter but in reality it's probably just good business.

He is a narcissist (though I think everybody to ever run for office much less president is how much he stands out from a crowd that includes "I'm in movies and thus fit to run the country Reagan", "Slick Willy style", "I'm inevitable Hillary" and "it's my fuck mothering birth right Bush Jr" is highly debatable but sure) As for his legacy as the Drone Executioner for starters his legacy will always be tied more to Obamacare than to that and once he's out of office the Democrats will quietly forget (the few of us that constantly called him out) because it will be pointless to continue bitching and the Republicans will never bring it up because they honestly agree with the action he took just not the color of his skin. So. . .meh.

 

[boomer177]

On The Media (Podcast), "The Bill That Nobody Read," May 29, 2015,
>>http://www.onthemedia.org/story/on-the-media-2015-05-29/.

Congress is locked in a battle over the future of the Patriot Act.
This special hour of ON THE MEDIA reveals the origins of the act
in a post-9/11 climate of fear... and considers whether it really is
at the heart of the nation's struggle between security and privacy.


Absent congressional action, Patriot Act, Section 215, the purported basis for NSA's bulk data collection, will expire tomorrow (Sunday) night at Midnight ET (US).

The Senate is scheduled to reconvene Sunday at 4:00 pm.

 

[Paendragon]

Presidents and their hangers on tend to get pre-occupied with "their place in history" midway through their second term. Some presidents, like Clinton, are people pleasers and want everybody to like them. I've always thought that Obama was a narcissist at heart, in love with the sound of his own voice.

I'm counting on his narcissism here, because it's one of the few things he could do on his own, and it would mollify his legacy as the drone executioner, and the Guantanamo flip-flopper.

I'd like to believe you, but nothing Obama has done so far shows he would give up a tool he uses so often. He could have shut down the domestic spying program any time.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'd like to believe you, but nothing Obama has done so far shows he would give up a tool he uses so often. He could have shut down the domestic spying program any time.

Maybe in theory he could have, in practice fuck no he couldn't. I think people often forget how stupid the majority of Americans actually are. Can you imagine the fall out if he'd shut it down prior to say the Boston Bombing?

 

[Paendragon]

Maybe in theory he could have, in practice fuck no he couldn't. I think people often forget how stupid the majority of Americans actually are. Can you imagine the fall out if he'd shut it down prior to say the Boston Bombing?

Yeah, he'd be crucified, especially on Fox (but let's be honest, the only way Fox doesn't crucify someone for ending the Patriot Act is if it's a Republican . . . then he's a hero of freedom). But he could have still done so. Remember, he campaigned on the message of ending the Bush Administrations abuses, and nothing is more abusive than the government spying on it's own citizens.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah, he'd be crucified, especially on Fox (but let's be honest, the only way Fox doesn't crucify someone for ending the Patriot Act is if it's a Republican . . . then he's a hero of freedom). But he could have still done so. Remember, he campaigned on the message of ending the Bush Administrations abuses, and nothing is more abusive than the government spying on it's own citizens.

He would have been crucified on MSNBC though. We're talking step down from office and save everybody the trouble of the formality style stuff. As for the abuses while you and I are in agreement that it's abusive (I'm not sure if nothing is more abusive than that to be perfectly honest.) there were definite mixed feelings in the public at large until things started coming to light. Things that any thinking person knew had been going on for a while but apparently until Snowden showed us the data a lot of people thought "hey signed the Patriot Act so we can spy on you" meant "we're gonna spy on dirty Muzzies the rest of you can relax we won't bother you." Naive? In the extreme but clearly that's what lots of people thought.

I just think you're not accurately portraying how the politics of this works out and at the end of the day politicians have to both get elected, help their party and do whatever they can to help their country while remembering that I listed these in order of importance.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Also there is a well founded fear for him. If he does veto the Patriot act and anything at all happens over the next six years the Democrats will cease to be a party entirely and we'll have decades of majority Republicans and everybody knows it. To quote Men in Black. "A person is smart, people are dumb panicky animals." Politics being the art of the possible and also a predictionary art I'm not sure if I was in his position I do anything as bold as a veto on this either.

Fair enough.....

Personally I think if he went and pushed too hard against the stuff he said he would (real HC reform, actually end the wars, end PATRIOT act etc) they would have assassinated his ass.

He would have been crucified on MSNBC though.

CNN maybe...but not MSN, especially not at any time in his 1st term.....he was practically GOD on that station for his first 4 years. Could have sacrificed the family pet and fucked the kids on the WH lawn and they would have spun it into some necessary evil for the betterment of all the starving children of the world.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Fair enough.....

Personally I think if he went and pushed too hard against the stuff he said he would (real HC reform, actually end the wars, end PATRIOT act etc) they would have assassinated his ass.



CNN maybe...but not MSN, especially not at any time in his 1st term.....he was practically GOD on that station for his first 4 years. Could have sacrificed the family pet and fucked the kids on the WH lawn and they would have spun it into some necessary evil for the betterment of all the starving children of the world.

Oh he most definitely would have gotten taken care of if he'd actually pushed of UHC, ended the wars, ended the patriot act and really pushed to close Gitmo instead of "hey guys, we should close Gitmo." No. "Welp I tried."

I'm not big on conspiracy theories, don't own any tinfoil hats. However it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that there is an elite band of red neck anti-government types that are making damn sure nothing happens to Obama. If he died the government would have at least two years of complete carte blanche from the majority of the population to go door to door collecting guns and melting them down into playground equipment. And we both know no matter what people say about their 'cold dead fingers' most of them are talking shit and wouldn't fight for a second.

I don't think anybody would have spared Obama had that series of events taken place. Or even could if they desperately wanted to.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Oh he most definitely would have gotten taken care of if he'd actually pushed of UHC, ended the wars, ended the patriot act and really pushed to close Gitmo instead of "hey guys, we should close Gitmo." No. "Welp I tried."

LOL yea...at least he got a lot of it toned the fuck down to a dull roar.

I'm not big on conspiracy theories, don't own any tinfoil hats. However it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that there is an elite band of red neck anti-government types that are making damn sure nothing happens to Obama. If he died the government would have at least two years of complete carte blanche from the majority of the population to go door to door collecting guns and melting them down into playground equipment. And we both know no matter what people say about their 'cold dead fingers' most of them are talking shit and wouldn't fight for a second.

I don't think anybody would have spared Obama had that series of events taken place. Or even could if they desperately wanted to.

I think they are interesting from the perspective of "I know I'm crazy...but what do the other craziez think??"

Helps me to keep from thinking' I'm really all that bat shit crazy....maybe salty/cynical/jaded with an imagination....

But not full on
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/drunken-peasants-podcast/images/8/80/Aattp-alex-jones.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150518213123
either.


I might be....idk it's confusing sometimes, esp now that I get to spend most my time not in an uber metro area with lack of human interaction.....hello crazy...is this me???

 

[Sean Renaud]

Yeah, I think they know they are crazy or are flat out bluffing. I think the thing that I find truly frightening is the more and more I listen to different Republicans I'm not sure they don't believe the hype. I won't pretend the left doesn't have it's crazies but it seems to be a difference of magnitude. Like Rachel Maddow is partisan as fuck and crazy. But one a scale of one to ten she's maybe a seven. She's crazy like the Penguin or Catwoman. They have an obsession. Then the right has guys like O'Rielly and he's full on Joker crazy.

 

[patient1]

The Senate is supposed to take it up tomorrow afternoon. There is still time to e-mail your senator.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Does anybody honestly believe that care about or even read letters from the general public?

 

[patient1]

Does anybody honestly believe that care about or even read letters from the general public?

Actually, I got an answer from Ron Johnson before. Generally, I figure a staffer reads them and tallies them as a sort of public opinion poll. I don't expect a response, much less a personal one.

But I don't bother them that often. I've been voting since 1978, and wrote them on only 3 separate occasions. Once I sent a brief hand-printed letter to my Congressman about a railroad consolidation, because he was on the transportation committee. I was in favor of what I thought would make the railroad stronger and best able to survive in the long run.

He wrote back, explaining how he wanted to structure to produce competition and fair markets for customers. I could respect that. It took a few years, but his railroad re-organization went bankrupt, and the one I advocated is in place today.

The next time I contacted a legislator was to complain about proposed internet regulation. Whatever the proposal was at the time, it got squashed in a nasty citizen backlash.

The last time it was in support of Rand Paul's drone filibuster. As it turned out, he participated, asking some wordy softball questions of Paul, to give his mouth a rest. Not because I e-mailed, but because we were like minded. I think that was the time he wrote me a personal reply.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I guess a 33% reply rate isn't bad at all. I'd be wary of assuming that the second one had much to do with public tides. Sometimes shit just goes your way because it goes your way and it's not any more complicated than that.

 

[patient1]

It was two replies out of three. I'm guessing that I write better than average, and we can't generalize about my anecdotal evidence.

True, there's no telling what goes on behind the scenes in a legislature.

 

[Sean Renaud]

My apology, I was in a bit of a rush when I read it. Still writing better than average doesn't help if they don't read it. So in fairness your anecdotal evidence gives me a faith in my government that I didn't have previously.

 

[Aglaopheme]

They do read them. They do keep track of where people stand on the issues be it from letters, phone calls or wherever. Public pressure changes things. The day it doesn't......well. Please don't think that one person can't make a difference. It's just not true.