Could you see past the flaws?

[TheNiteSiren]

This subject came up because my best friend Maggie (not her real name) joined up here about two years ago. She met this guy that seemingly charmed her heart from her. Maggie is a cancer patient survivor who is also in under huge financial strain from bills and losing her job. During that time, she started to have her teeth crack and become infected. Doctor said that it had something to do with her immune system being so low. Her remission is very recent and she still has issues with her health.

Maggie told this guy that she had some flaws and even sent a pic of herself. He agreed to meet her in person, but when she showed up to the agreed upon spot he turned tail and left. This was a guy that romanced the hell out of her. One little flaw and he ran. She is a wonderful and strong woman too.

I telling you this story because I want to know if there is anyone out there that can actually see past the flaws. Someone that can go a little deeper to see the person within. It has me questioning the male species as a whole. I know I am not perfect and wonder if the same won't happen to me. I think this is a valid question and would like feedback from the men and women here.

 

[Werewolf90210]

In short. Yes, there are plenty of men out there who will see past the flaws. Nothing get angers me more when a select few behave pathetically and then all men get labelled as jerks. I'm truly sorry for your friend's experience but most of us men aren't jerks and can be really lovely both online and in person.

 

[Magicola]

This subject came up because my best friend Maggie (not her real name) joined up here about two years ago. She met this guy that seemingly charmed her heart from her. Maggie is a cancer patient survivor who is also in under huge financial strain from bills and losing her job. During that time, she started to have her teeth crack and become infected. Doctor said that it had something to do with her immune system being so low. Her remission is very recent and she still has issues with her health.

Maggie told this guy that she had some flaws and even sent a pic of herself. He agreed to meet her in person, but when she showed up to the agreed upon spot he turned tail and left. This was a guy that romanced the hell out of her. One little flaw and he ran. She is a wonderful and strong woman too.

I telling you this story because I want to know if there is anyone out there that can actually see past the flaws. Someone that can go a little deeper to see the person within. It has me questioning the male species as a whole. I know I am not perfect and wonder if the same won't happen to me. I think this is a valid question and would like feedback from the men and women here.

i can see both sides. On one hand,definitely a cowardly thing to 'run'. However, on the other hand this is indicative of issues with getting to know an internet persona intensively before in person-though a picture should have helped him along. I think it's a little less hassle to meet through conventional means than through the barrier of the web

Sad story. Most importantly is, i hope she is well.

 

[ElectricBlues]

Some people are all talk and bluster. It's possible that flaws or not he would have bolted.


Either way its an incredibly cowardly thing to do. If he agreed to meet he should have. That kind of behaviour can irrevocably damage a persons confidence and it's really unfair. A simple meeting and an explanation that he was no longer interested would have been a lot better than turning tail and running.

I'm sorry your friend had to go through that.

 

[MindfullyYours]

.....

 

[RedStarFic]

Some guys are, basically, arseholes (excuse my language) and some aren't. With a whole spectrum in-between.

I'd say that women can be the same - wouldn't like to speculate which is the worst, but I think guys are less in tune with feelings etc so probably cause injury easier. (Massive generalisation I know - sorry fellow geezers) However, arranging to meet anyone off a site like this is a risky business. For many people it's fantasy-land far removed from reality. Delusion and illusion.

So they bottled it. They might have bottled it if your friend was the embodiment of the Venus de Milo. Real life is scarier than semi-fantasy internetland.

That might not be helpful, but it's my thoughts. I hope your friend realises this guy's deficiencies are not her fault.

 

[NjoyIt]

There are idiots is both genders. There are exceptional people in each as well. Unfortunately, she found a shallow and small minded idiot. I am so sorry.

--NjoyIt

 

[moocha01]

Sorry to hear

My friend has had both her breasts removed and married a wonderful man last year, please tell your friend they are not all arseholes xx

 

[OwlBear]

This subject came up because my best friend Maggie (not her real name) joined up here about two years ago. She met this guy that seemingly charmed her heart from her. Maggie is a cancer patient survivor who is also in under huge financial strain from bills and losing her job. During that time, she started to have her teeth crack and become infected. Doctor said that it had something to do with her immune system being so low. Her remission is very recent and she still has issues with her health.

Maggie told this guy that she had some flaws and even sent a pic of herself. He agreed to meet her in person, but when she showed up to the agreed upon spot he turned tail and left. This was a guy that romanced the hell out of her. One little flaw and he ran. She is a wonderful and strong woman too.

I telling you this story because I want to know if there is anyone out there that can actually see past the flaws. Someone that can go a little deeper to see the person within. It has me questioning the male species as a whole. I know I am not perfect and wonder if the same won't happen to me. I think this is a valid question and would like feedback from the men and women here.

Men are pigs. Realize that first...we are. I can't make excuses for it, it is part of our DNA. But that being said, yes Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus....and decent men DO exist. We're still gonna oink from time to time but we will see beyond the flaws...nay....we will find those "flaws" (real or imaginary) to be the things that most endear you to us. I know a lot of "good guys" who get pissed on by women over and over again...it happens in both directions. But tell Maggie (and yourself) that a guy who runs wasn't worth wasting any more time on. Consider it enjoyable banter that helped you practice and prepare for that guy who will adore your "flaws" and worship you. We do exist. Honest! If you curl up and hide in the shadows, always afraid of being hurt, he could pass you by and not see you...put yourself out there, cautiously but out there, and he shall show up. And experiences like the one you described will only make the real deal that much sweeter when he smiles at you the first time...when he asks what's up because he really wants to know,...when he takes you in his arms and makes you forgot the rest of the world and all the assholes that seemingly populate the universe. Don't give up...he is out there wondering if all women are twats just like you (and Maggie) wonder if all men are ignorant dicks. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt...but we do exist...promise! So....rambling as it was, there's my viewpoint. Hope it helps!

 

[DarkrSide]

Anyone here that says he or she doesn't have a flaw is full of shit. We all have them. Some more glaring than others.

I have flaws that have driven people away.

 

[ashesatwork]

ugh..romantic. he's full of shit. he fell in love with her and ran for some broken teeth. good lord. fuck that dude. I wish he was outed and blackballed. he doesn't deserve a true love cause he's done missed it.

good luck to your friend on her continued remission. fuck that and don't let this get her down. she's a damn strong woman and that wasn't a man.

 

[EctoJohn]

To be perfectly honest, I can see past some flaws, but there is a limit.
For instance, I like to kiss, and not that my teeth are the most perfect things
on the planet, but cracked, infested teeth sounds unpleasant to kiss.
Nothing against your friend Maggie, well not intentionally, but that would turn me off.

Now, would I take 1 look, turn tail, and run?
No, I'm not that inconsiderate.
I would give it the old college try, and who knows, maybe we'd hit it off irl even better than expected.
However, I would, in the most likelyhood, go home already thinking of looking for the next woman.

That's not to say I don't have my own flaws, I have a stadium's worth of my own, and surely there's plenty of women out there who'd skip town on me as well,
not even give me the old college try, but we all have our limits on what we're willing to accept in a mate.

There's probably a lot of people who'll show up here claiming to be not so shallow that they wouldn't turn down someone they met online because of flaws like
you mentioned, but how many of them actually have stood tall in practice?
A lot of us would simply not bother if a person didn't meet our expectations, whether you do it nicely, or be like that guy, and be an ass about it.

It's not the male species that has this trait; the entire human species is hard wired to try and find a suitable mate, an exceptional example of the human animal.
It's a trait of a species trying to thrive, and while we're no longer hairy proto-humans simply surviving in the wild like the other animals, that instinct is still there,
lingering in the background, influencing our decisions of choosing our mate.

While you can choose to be more tactful in your rejection of someone, you can't be entirely faulted for turning down someone based upon their physical appearance,
health concerns, or financial standing.
You are, after all, still that primal beast looking for the best option.

I would say for Maggie that, even though he quickly decided she wasn't his best option, she can conversely look at it that he wasn't her best option either.
I'd like to believe there is somebody for everyone, it's just not always easy to find them.

 

[JackVettriano]

we are all perfectly flawed, that's what makes us unique

Are we making an assumption that this guy took off because of this ladies looks? Maybe he's married and had second thoughts, he may have saw a friend or relative and didn't want to be have to explain himself.

I have been on Lit a long time now and have met lots of people for lots of reasons. Mostly just for a coffee and to say Hi, but it's a fact that people will.often change their minds at the last second. I guess they don't have the courage of their conviction. I would say that I chat to people for about six months before meeting up. I guess this was no different and to.run a way like that because of looks seems crazy, you can still be friends. I just think it must be in part down to something else.

 

[policywank]

The manner in which this guy responded to the situation sounds appalling. But I don't know what her appearance was and how it compared to the expectation she had established.

Two aspects of what you stated don't ring true for me. One little flaw.....in whose eyes? That sounds like the response of a compassionate friend more so than an objective view. And while her medical history is relevant to what he should have expected I don't see it as relevant to his attraction. We aren't talking about a man abandoning a loved one but a stranger (more or less) declining to enter into a possible relationship. I try to be compassionate but I would never accept a man's poor health as some kind of reason I should try harder to date him.

We all know people who are unreasonably fickle and critical of other people's appearance. And we can all talk about character and beauty being on the inside. But I have yet to meet anyone for whom their romantic or sexual partner's appearance is entirely irrelevant. I know lots of men and women who can see past significant flaws and some who can't. Neither gender is over represented in either category. The all men are pigs and all women are gracious nonsense has no place in adult conversation. It isn't true.

I'm sorry ladies, but in the department of in your face rejection guys endure more than we do. Maybe this guy is a jerk. But all that he owed this lady was a tactful exit.

From a female point of view I know this sounds harsh, but think about it this way. I would never accept a woman being called a bitch for refusing to date a guy - our right to choose our partners for whatever reason we deem suitable is fundamental and absolute. That position is not defensible if it isn't reciprocal.

If we apply a different standard to ourselves we aren't equal.

 

[ArthurW]

I have a question for you is the person inside the same or gone? The out side is window dressing its the inside that counts. If you a real person you will see the real lady inside.

 

[NiceNastyMann]

'Scuze me. Gotta pull this big ass chunka wood outta my eye. Damn that hurt.

Wazat you askin?

You want some sawdust wiped outta yours?

 

[policywank]

I have a question for you is the person inside the same or gone? The out side is window dressing its the inside that counts. If you a real person you will see the real lady inside.

Ya we all say that. But I don't know many women who undertake to date a guy who they find fundamentally unattractive because he might be a great guy deep down. Our criteria for attractive may vary but that is still our primary guide.

We criticize guys for not wanting to date our less attractive girlfriends then we go and pick the guy we find attractive. There are exceptions of course. I wish there were more and I do truly respect those who can look deeper. But more often than not people making this point are talking about other people, from the safe perspective of their own comfortable relationship with someone they find physically attractive or at least in the same league that they are.

 

[ArthurW]

Lady I find women that are the most beautiful are not worth dating as they act like snobs. So if you looking at window dressing your very shallow person. Its the person inside that counts and the only part of her that counts. If you do that onwith guys find both have a better chance of cheating on you and treating you like shit. I see it all the time. Sad you can not see the real person and your statement says you never will.

 

[TheNiteSiren]

As for my view of her, I may be biased because of my feelings but this is someone who was an athlete and a former pageant competitor as a teen, she is far from ugly. Her teeth is the one thing she has trouble dealing with. The guy in question knew her for a while, talked to her on the phone, and had pics of her but never with her smiling a full smile. He had made promises because she is insecure..said he wasn't the type to be shallow...yada yada yada...

I do see how some women can be the same, shallow....but there are those of us that are charmed by a sweet nature, a sense of humor and everything. I fell in love with someone a few years back from here and we never met face to face. Not all women are like that but I know I am. If you can make me laugh, I am immediately attracted. I have been looking for someone who is maybe cute and with that sense of humor. Pretty boys look good but usually know it too and can be snobby with me because I am by no means perfect either. I want a quality male is deeper than most.

 

[stiffNDN]

Another view...

I was scrolling through the new posts today and stopped here because the title intrigued me, and after reading the initial post, I gave the rest of the posts the once over. First, let me start by saying that your friend didn't deserve that type of reaction from anyone - not a potential lover, mate, least of all someone who I assume was considered a friend as well. Now to make things more personal, I myself have been both offender AND victim in similar scenarios and its not something I admit to being proud of.
When in my 20s and 30s, I was what a lot of folks consider attractive - about 5'11" 180 lbs. and built well. I'm half Native American and half Polish, and had darker skin, long (to my belt), straight black hair and brown eyes and a few tattoos and piercings. The typical tall, dark and handsome "bad boy" type- the problem was, was that in my 20s, I damned well knew it! Back in those days there wasn't really much of an internet dating scene, but I'd had a few encounters from women I had met on phone chat lines, and to be honest, I'd arranged to meet a few and upon seeing them in real life, quickly left without even an introduction - yep, I was THAT shallow! Ugh!
Well fast forward through 3 failed marriages and several less than ideal relationships into my mid 30's. I still looked the same, but what I'd matured enough to realize was that without something deeper than just a physical attraction, no relationship was bound to become anything more than a nice diversion. By then I was highly flawed myself, but internally. It was then that I started to see that the beauty of a sweet, kind soul or an intellectual connection was worth SO much more than an outward appearance, and I was fortunate enough to find the love of my life and lucky enough to spend the rest of her days here in material land with her. She may not have been beautiful to anyone but me, but to me she was what the rest of my life to that point had been for.
Now I'm in my late forties, weigh about 230, with graying hair, a pot belly and degenerative disc disease has cost me an inch and a half or so in height. A cancer related issue has disrupted my immune system as well, so my teeth are getting as bad as a meth addict on a 20 year run. I've been fortunate to make some friends online (part of my being here as well), but I have found that trading pictures is great if I send pics of me from 10 years ago (or just from the waist down! Lol!), but in a lot of situations as soon as I send a current pic, or we Skype, my physical flaws show and about half the women I've met soon find reasons to stop communicating - I mean wth, I'm still the same guy that made them laugh, fueled their fantasies, talked them through hard times(and into orgasms) so why does how I look make that big a difference? (Btw, I'm still cute as hell and packing a solid 8"! Lol!)
My only answer, which stems from my own assholishness (yes, I just created that word- feel free to use it at will) is maturity. Sometimes people aren't mature enough to realize that what they think is attractive initially is fleeting and that every person deserves the chance to develop into more substance in our lives. And I know for me, when I didn't give people that chance it was just the selfish, spoiled immature me costing myself what probably was many, many opportunities to be happy.
So to your friend I say he wasn't worth your time and surely isn't worth any energy now in regret, and be certain there are people out there mature enough to look past the flaws and realize the special things in you.

End of rant.
(Pic # 38 is from when I was 38, the other is from March of 2014)

 

[DrFeelgood]

As for my view of her, I may be biased because of my feelings but this is someone who was an athlete and a former pageant competitor as a teen, she is far from ugly. Her teeth is the one thing she has trouble dealing with. The guy in question knew her for a while, talked to her on the phone, and had pics of her but never with her smiling a full smile. He had made promises because she is insecure..said he wasn't the type to be shallow...yada yada yada...

I do see how some women can be the same, shallow....but there are those of us that are charmed by a sweet nature, a sense of humor and everything. I fell in love with someone a few years back from here and we never met face to face. Not all women are like that but I know I am. If you can make me laugh, I am immediately attracted. I have been looking for someone who is maybe cute and with that sense of humor. Pretty boys look good but usually know it too and can be snobby with me because I am by no means perfect either. I want a quality male is deeper than most.

I think we all have flaws. If there is an attraction there inside and out one can see past those. I admit I have a little extra around the waste I would like to get rid of but I am very proud of my looks. Not full of myself, however. I do think now I look better than in my 20's. I also had bad teeth for many years but thank god now for modern dentistry and being better off financially. I can commiserate though especially not smiling. Only recently have you seen me smiling as much as I do and seeing my smile in photos. Mine was from chronic periodontal problems. Cant imagine having suffered though cancer to lose your teeth. WOW.

 

[runnintherace]

i think i can say i know a little how she feeling...i have a physical issue, a neurological issue, which prevents me from doing all the stuff i used to do. when women see me, and that i wasnt kidding when we chatted, they dont give me the time of day.

 

[policywank]

As for my view of her, I may be biased because of my feelings but this is someone who was an athlete and a former pageant competitor as a teen, she is far from ugly. Her teeth is the one thing she has trouble dealing with. The guy in question knew her for a while, talked to her on the phone, and had pics of her but never with her smiling a full smile. He had made promises because she is insecure..said he wasn't the type to be shallow...yada yada yada...

I do see how some women can be the same, shallow....but there are those of us that are charmed by a sweet nature, a sense of humor and everything. I fell in love with someone a few years back from here and we never met face to face. Not all women are like that but I know I am. If you can make me laugh, I am immediately attracted. I have been looking for someone who is maybe cute and with that sense of humor. Pretty boys look good but usually know it too and can be snobby with me because I am by no means perfect either. I want a quality male is deeper than most.

I don't mean to defend the way this guy behaved for one second. It was appalling as I said in my original comment. And it is self evident that we all make better connections and relationships when we look deeper. But we all feel what we feel. He was attracted to her or he wasn't. The way he dealt with is entirely deserving of criticism. But it isn't for any of us to determine what other people find attractive.

As I have matured I have tried to look deeper and see the real person and it has genuinely led to better relationships. I accept all the philosophy and merits behind this point of view. I just don't feel that I am qualified to sit in judgment of what others find attractive and whether or not their personal perspective is a reflection of superficiality. And frankly I have never met anyone who is qualified to make such a judgment though many do anyways.

We can surmise that this guy acted like a jerk. Whether his lack of attraction can be put down to not being able to see past one flaw is more than we can conclude from hearing one side of the story second hand. Painting a narrow picture of the two of them then passing judgment on him is......well superficial.

I am not arguing in favour of being superficial. I am arguing against judging other people superficial without knowing what is going on inside their heart and mind.