The Right Word Can Destroy A Story

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Word meanings change over time.

A SPINSTER was originally a gal who made linens etc for her impending marriage.

The BACHELOR was an older, never married homosexual.

And GAY, of course, was a pleasant emotional affect.

GENDER began life as the word for cattle breeding. Later it distinguished pronouns. Today it replaces phenotypical SEX.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Word meanings change over time.

A SPINSTER was originally a gal who made linens etc for her impending marriage.

The BACHELOR was an older, never married homosexual.

And GAY, of course, was a pleasant emotional affect.

GENDER began life as the word for cattle breeding. Later it distinguished pronouns. Today it replaces phenotypical SEX.

and
With trepidation, I would like to question some of your etymology

A spinster was originally unisex - just a spinner of linens and could be M or F.

So , au naturel, the language created a feminine, 'spinstress' simply a female spinner.

A bachelor, dating back to 1300,meant a young, unmarried man, a youthful knight, a novice in arms.

Gay, OK but the origin dates back to 1920 and started with gay brothels in 1920, including the names of London prostitutes in 1920.

As for gender, I think you mean 'genotype'.

 

[slyc_willie]

I think a better title to this thread would be, "The Wrong Interpretation Can Destroy a Story."

For instance:

As Elfin pointed out, the term bachelor has no bearing whatsoever on a man's sexual orientation. Not sure where you got that from, Jimmy, but I'm pretty sure you're misinformed. It dates back some seven centuries and more, originating in the term baccalarium, which meant "a place of cows," otherwise known as a dairy farm. Such places were often tended by young men, known as baccalaris. In times of war, they had no standards or banners of their own and fought for whichever lord or ruler they chose. The spelling and pronunciation changed with the times, going from baccalaris to bachelor in France.

So, a bachelor (or bachelor-in-arms) was a man with no ties or affiliations. He did what he pleased and gave his allegiances only when he felt like it. Easy to see how that term would come to apply to an unmarried young man.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think a better title to this thread would be, "The Wrong Interpretation Can Destroy a Story."

For instance:

As Elfin pointed out, the term bachelor has no bearing whatsoever on a man's sexual orientation. Not sure where you got that from, Jimmy, but I'm pretty sure you're misinformed. It dates back some seven centuries and more, originating in the term baccalarium, which meant "a place of cows," otherwise known as a dairy farm. Such places were often tended by young men, known as baccalaris. In times of war, they had no standards or banners of their own and fought for whichever lord or ruler they chose. The spelling and pronunciation changed with the times, going from baccalaris to bachelor in France.

So, a bachelor (or bachelor-in-arms) was a man with no ties or affiliations. He did what he pleased and gave his allegiances only when he felt like it. Easy to see how that term would come to apply to an unmarried young man.

I'm a simple country boy who checks things out when he falls over new and strange words. Like, in Jesus' time a VIRGIN was a childless woman, regardless of her marital status. Now I don't know if Mary was pregnant with God's child, but I know she was Joseph's wife when Jesus was born, and I once had a patient who said she was pregnant with Elvis' child many years after his reported death.

 

[Tigersman]

Gay usage

The word Gay goes back in US history to a time or rather era when innovations were making life easier and more enjoyable for people. This era was called the "Gay Nineties." Unfortunately now the word is identified with being homosexual.

 

[CyranoJ]

There are etymology dictionaries online these days.

Probably the funniest victim of the drift in usage of the word "gay" (though I doubt this was often pointed out to their faces): the Almighty Gaylords, a Chicago white supremacist gang whose branches retained that name or variations on it right down to the Nineties.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The word Gay goes back in US history to a time or rather era when innovations were making life easier and more enjoyable for people. This era was called the "Gay Nineties." Unfortunately now the word is identified with being homosexual.

Faggotry is a political movement, its already conquered most of our institutions and political organizations.

 

[lowphat]

The below was taken from wikipedia on the word Bachelor.

In the Victorian era, the term eligible bachelor was used in the context of upper class matchmaking, denoting a young man who was not only unmarried and eligible for marriage, but also considered "eligible" in financial and societal terms for the prospective bride under discussion. Also in the Victorian era, the term "confirmed bachelor" connoted a man who was resolute to remain unmarried. Up until the 1960's (especially in the U.K.), the phrase "confirmed bachelor" was employed as a polite euphemism to describe a gay man (or, a man thought to be gay).

For reference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor

 

[elfin_odalisque]

The word Gay goes back in US history to a time or rather era when innovations were making life easier and more enjoyable for people. This era was called the "Gay Nineties." Unfortunately now the word is identified with being homosexual.

No. According to the Dictionary of American Slang, 'gay' meaning homosexual was first noted in 1920. To describe a female prostitute it dates from 1889.

In the 14th C it meant wanton or lewd, which is perhaps the true root of the 'Gay Nineties'.

Certainly, 'gay' hasn't been squeaky clean for a very long time.

Be careful to distinguish between gay as a noun and gay as an adjective.

In Urban Dictionary-speak it has meant bad, inferior, undesirable as street slang since 2000, without sexual connotation.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

The below was taken from wikipedia on the word Bachelor.



For reference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor

No. I am a bachelor (of arts) even if I haven't got the cojones. So, if I'm co-habiting, what does that make me? A trollop?

Bachelor, like master is simply an appellation of academic achievement. Don't genderize it.

PS: The origin is French academia, from baccalaureat.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No. I am a bachelor (of arts) even if I haven't got the cojones. So, if I'm co-habiting, what does that make me? A trollop?

Bachelor, like master is simply an appellation of academic achievement. Don't genderize it.

Is a GOPHER a TORTOISE or a mammal.

 

[CyranoJ]

No. I am a bachelor (of arts) even if I haven't got the cojones. So, if I'm co-habiting, what does that make me? A trollop?

Bachelor, like master is simply an appellation of academic achievement. Don't genderize it.

PS: The origin is French academia, from baccalaureat.

Clearly context matters. Yes, there are contexts where it's a gendered term, yes, there are contexts where it isn't.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Is a GOPHER a TORTOISE or a mammal.

An advanced computer program that we use every week.

Go back in your cave and have a quiet lie-down.

 

[R. Richard]

So, a bachelor (or bachelor-in-arms) was a man with no ties or affiliations. He did what he pleased and gave his allegiances only when he felt like it. Easy to see how that term would come to apply to an unmarried young man.

Okay, but I would have preferred the term 'bad motherfucker' myself.

 

[lowphat]

No. I am a bachelor (of arts) even if I haven't got the cojones. So, if I'm co-habiting, what does that make me? A trollop?

Bachelor, like master is simply an appellation of academic achievement. Don't genderize it.

PS: The origin is French academia, from baccalaureat.

I think it comes from the Medieval Latin word baccalari, but I'm not going to argue about it.

 

[Katiecat]

From Wiki: The word is from Anglo-Norman bacheler (later suffixal change to bachelier; cf. escolier "student", from earlier escoler), a young squire in training. The ultimate source of the word is uncertain, it may be from Medieval Latin baccalari(u)s "vassal farmer" or "farm hand" (cf. Provençal bacalar, Tuscan bacalaro "squire"), i.e. one who tends a baccalaria, a term for a grazing farm (from bacca "cow"),[2] or it may be from Latin baculum "a stick" (as the knight-in-training would practice with a wooden club before receiving his sword).[3]

Also:
... also an inferior grade in scholarship, i.e. one holding a "bachelor's degree" In this sense the word baccalarius or baccalaureus first appears at the University of Paris in the 13th century, in the system of degrees established under the auspices of Pope Gregory IX...

You're both correct.

 

[slyc_willie]

From Wiki: The word is from Anglo-Norman bacheler (later suffixal change to bachelier; cf. escolier "student", from earlier escoler), a young squire in training. The ultimate source of the word is uncertain, it may be from Medieval Latin baccalari(u)s "vassal farmer" or "farm hand" (cf. Provençal bacalar, Tuscan bacalaro "squire"), i.e. one who tends a baccalaria, a term for a grazing farm (from bacca "cow"),[2] or it may be from Latin baculum "a stick" (as the knight-in-training would practice with a wooden club before receiving his sword).[3]

Also:
... also an inferior grade in scholarship, i.e. one holding a "bachelor's degree" In this sense the word baccalarius or baccalaureus first appears at the University of Paris in the 13th century, in the system of degrees established under the auspices of Pope Gregory IX...

You're both correct.

As is often the case with etymology, finding "THE origin" of a word or phrase can be difficult to pin down. I think some people attest the word bachelor has its origins in Arabic usage from the ninth or tenth century, as an anglicized version of an Arabic term used to indicate a student or something. I'd have to look that one up.

But what sounds right to me is the origin I included above. In the absence of absolute knowledge, the progression from baccalari to bachelor makes the most sense.

 

[Katiecat]

As is often the case with etymology, finding "THE origin" of a word or phrase can be difficult to pin down. I think some people attest the word bachelor has its origins in Arabic usage from the ninth or tenth century, as an anglicized version of an Arabic term used to indicate a student or something. I'd have to look that one up.

But what sounds right to me is the origin I included above. In the absence of absolute knowledge, the progression from baccalari to bachelor makes the most sense.

And if you go back far enough, say 4500-2500 BC, you'll find most of our words have roots in Proto-Indo-European. It was the mother tongue for virtually all of our modern Indo-European languages. =)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

As is often the case with etymology, finding "THE origin" of a word or phrase can be difficult to pin down. I think some people attest the word bachelor has its origins in Arabic usage from the ninth or tenth century, as an anglicized version of an Arabic term used to indicate a student or something. I'd have to look that one up.

But what sounds right to me is the origin I included above. In the absence of absolute knowledge, the progression from baccalari to bachelor makes the most sense.

You make my case for word ambiguity and confusion.

 

[TxRad]

You make my case for word ambiguity and confusion.

Sorry but you don't really have a case, just an unsupported opinion as usual.

 

[slyc_willie]

You make my case for word ambiguity and confusion.

No, I only provided an example. While the road of etymology is nearly never a concrete highway with well-positioned lights and convenient signs to guide the traveler, even a dusty cart path through the woods has only a few paths.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

If Hillary becomes President, will she be Mrs President or Madam President (or Ms President) ?

 

[Katiecat]

If Hillary becomes President, will she be Mrs President or Madam President (or Ms President) ?

Oooh, I can see the reporters diving for their AP Stylebooks now...

I'm pretty sure Madam President is the correct form of address, however antiquated it sounds. It sounds a little more formal than Ms. President. She's been Mrs. Clinton in the press for years. I suspect this will be avoided by just referring to her as President Clinton. Or Queen Elsa.

And will Bill be the First Hubby?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Bill will still be called MISTER PRESIDENT, same as now. Otherwise its President and Mister Clinton.

 

[SamScribble]

For several (well, many) years I wrote a monthly column discussing where the various words and phrases pertaining to sailing had originated. It was fascinating doing the research. I was diligent. I was thorough. And, within a week or so of the magazine coming out, I usually found another bit of information that threw the whole box of bits up into the air. Such is life.