Need some help

[LtLukas]

Ok, so I am currently writing a series called the Tigress Wrestling Club. The reaction has been far exceeding what I thought it would be which thrills me.

However, I have a few nagging doubts about the series and my writing. The main character is a woman and I am a man. Sometimes when I look back over my work it feels like it is a man writing a woman, as opposed to something more organic and naturally feminine. I guess it just feels a bit forced, if I had to put it succinctly.

So I guess my request is that someone read at least one or two of them and see what they think. Any general criticisms and suggestions are of course welcome as well.

 

[Sammael Bard]

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=2138747&page=submissions

 

[Combat323]

For anyone wanting to take a look, the beginning of the series is here.

Since you asked specifically for feedback on the female perspective thing, I'll hold off on addressing other issues.

I've written first person narratives from a female character's perspective as well, and I don't think it's all that different. After reading the first installment, I'd say that I really don't know much yet about Rachel as a human being, much less a woman. Does she have insecurities?

I do believe that most women wouldn't be relating the size of other women's breasts by cup size, except for the creepy girls who read labels in the locker room while everyone else is playing dodge-ball. Also, almost every woman I know would see two women in bikinis and see something to envy or admire in their physiques. (Guys too, but we'd never mention it.)

When she sees "long black stiletto heels" and leaves the description at that, I can't help but think she is oddly disinterested in women's shoes. It also gives me the feeling that she's standing directly behind the person, and so she only sees the heel. Stiletto heels can be on pumps, sandals, platforms, boots, etc. The pumps might be peep-toe, or maybe not. Most women, in my opinion, would notice. I would notice, and I've been called "the world's most insensitive man."

 

[LtLukas]

Thanks for taking the time to read my first installment, Combat323.

It is true that at the time I really wasn't quite sure what I was doing with Rachel. I have tried to make her more of an active character. But I could talk about her insecurities more, so I appreciate the tip.

Yeah, I am actually a bit embarrassed by that. I have tried to move away from the cup size thing a lot. But you make another good point, I could go more in depth about things that Rachel admires in other girls' physiques.

Rachel is a massive tomboy, so I thought she would not really know the difference in different types of heels, and I used that to kinda mask my own ignorance. I suppose I can research different clothing a bit more though.

 

[PennLady]

I read parts one and two, and I don't think Rachel is *not* a woman, if that helps.

Women, like men, aren't a monolithic group. I'm not exactly a tomboy myself, but neither am I very girly -- I don't mind nice clothes, but I don't follow labels, brands, etc. I'm terrible at describing clothes beyond obvious things like long/short, color, things like that, and really it's because I've never been interested in such things. Nor do I care much about shoes (so long as I have some), where my mom has them in clear boxes and labeled and has many many pairs.

I will say that with the women I know, while we'd notice how large or small a woman's chest is, we wouldn't start with cup size as a descriptor, because it's such a variable thing. Not that Rachel can't estimate that, or like to.

She also seems like a bit of a guy's fantasy of a woman to some degree -- she's gorgeous, fit, and willing to have sex with other women. Which made me wonder, is she gay? Perhaps it's supposed to be obvious, but it's never stated, and I was curious.

And maybe that comes down a bit to what Combat says -- I feel like the reader doesn't know much about Rachel, what she likes or doesn't, what makes her tick, etc.

 

[LtLukas]

I read parts one and two, and I don't think Rachel is *not* a woman, if that helps.

Women, like men, aren't a monolithic group. I'm not exactly a tomboy myself, but neither am I very girly -- I don't mind nice clothes, but I don't follow labels, brands, etc. I'm terrible at describing clothes beyond obvious things like long/short, color, things like that, and really it's because I've never been interested in such things. Nor do I care much about shoes (so long as I have some), where my mom has them in clear boxes and labeled and has many many pairs.

This makes sense. I think I might have been looking at it in a weird way and this clears it up quite a bit. I was a bit lazy with a few of my descriptors and I see that now. It is helpful to know that I didn't put Rachel in the clearly not feminine camp though.

I will say that with the women I know, while we'd notice how large or small a woman's chest is, we wouldn't start with cup size as a descriptor, because it's such a variable thing. Not that Rachel can't estimate that, or like to.

Yeah. Looking back on it I am cringing a bit. Will definitely avoid that in the future.

She also seems like a bit of a guy's fantasy of a woman to some degree -- she's gorgeous, fit, and willing to have sex with other women. Which made me wonder, is she gay? Perhaps it's supposed to be obvious, but it's never stated, and I was curious.

And maybe that comes down a bit to what Combat says -- I feel like the reader doesn't know much about Rachel, what she likes or doesn't, what makes her tick, etc.

Yeah, she is a lesbian. I hadn't considered that she is just a guy's fantasy and I appreciate that insight. I will try to keep it in mind to not make her a Mary Sue (or Slutty Sue, as it were) in future installments. But I will also try to make her more introspective and either show or tell what makes her tick. I look at it and realize it is perhaps not the best introduction to the series. I am starting to think that having her in a jiu jitsu class where her aversion to submissiveness, general sexual appetite, and outlook in life are shown.

Like Combat, I think you were helpful. Thank you.

 

[robertreams]

I have read only the first story, so you may get better as you go, but this is my take from what i have read.

You are right. Your first person POV sounds like a man describing a woman. I do not think women, lesbian or not, check out other women by bra size. I don't mean they can't tell what size, i just don't think they think, sexually, in terms of "Oh there is a luscious "C" cup. I think with women, the entire picture; the whole body image, the individual, the personality, the attitude is much more likely to turn them on than individual body parts, especially by size. You even have her describing herself as a man would describe a woman. I think a woman is much more likely to focus on another woman's face, her eyes, than her 'boobs'. Of course I am speaking generally and individuals may have their own preferences, but then it is up to the author to create that person, and for me, you have not done so.

 

[LtLukas]

Alright cool, I think I have gotten better about it, but I will try to focus less on the breasts and more on the other body parts. I appreciate the suggestion. My intention was to start off with few descriptors for Samantha to try and make her a bit mysterious, but I suppose I picked the wrong ones.

 

[sr71plt]

It's more that you were too direct and specific in telling, rather than showing the reader what was important to know about her and letting the reader form the image.

Also, at the same point, you fell into another trap. You had the narrator tell us what she liked. Only she can know what she likes and unless/until you've had her convey what she likes to the narrator, the narrator isn't in the position to be inside her head. Unless you want to establish that the narrator is the all-knowing god, knowing and telling the reader what's inside the head of every character, it's best to write as fact only what the narrator character can know--or clearly has been told.

 

[LtLukas]

It's more that you were too direct and specific in telling, rather than showing the reader what was important to know about her and letting the reader form the image.

Hm. I hadn't considered this. Thank you for pointing it out. This is something that I can definitely work on.

Also, at the same point, you fell into another trap. You had the narrator tell us what she liked. Only she can know what she likes and unless/until you've had her convey what she likes to the narrator, the narrator isn't in the position to be inside her head. Unless you want to establish that the narrator is the all-knowing god, knowing and telling the reader what's inside the head of every character, it's best to write as fact only what the narrator character can know--or clearly has been told.

I would like if it you could elaborate on this point a little better. I wanted to make Rachel a very level headed girl and someone who knows what she wants. It doesn't seem apparent to me that knowing what you want makes her omniscient. I am not saying you're wrong, and perhaps I am misunderstanding, so please clarify a bit for me.

 

[robertreams]

Hm. I hadn't considered this. Thank you for pointing it out. This is something that I can definitely work on.





I would like if it you could elaborate on this point a little better. I wanted to make Rachel a very level headed girl and someone who knows what she wants. It doesn't seem apparent to me that knowing what you want makes her omniscient. I am not saying you're wrong, and perhaps I am misunderstanding, so please clarify a bit for me.

You cannot be 1st person POV and also know what another person feels or thinks or likes, unless you are shown to be gaining that knowledge inside the story. ( I know she has horrible periods because I have encountered her behavior on several occasions, etc.) By writing in 1st person, you have established that 1st person as a major character in the story, he or she can only observe what her senses tell her in the story. Third person POV, on the other hand can be omniscent, tell us how anyone thinks, because the narrator is outside the story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You cannot be 1st person POV and also know what another person feels or thinks or likes, unless you are shown to be gaining that knowledge inside the story. ( I know she has horrible periods because I have encountered her behavior on several occasions, etc.) By writing in 1st person, you have established that 1st person as a major character in the story, he or she can only observe what her senses tell her in the story. Third person POV, on the other hand can be omniscent, tell us how anyone thinks, because the narrator is outside the story.

Not true at all.

Action betrays thoughts and emotions.

 

[robertreams]

That's what I said. If it is 1st POV she must ACT inside the story to gain info. Thanks for agreeing.

 

[sr71plt]

Robert's explanation was right. JBJ's revealed he didn't know what was being discussed.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Robert's explanation was right. JBJ's revealed he didn't know what was being discussed.

You know shit about psychology, dipstick. But as a narcissist you think you do.

 

[sr71plt]

Which just shows that you're still wandering around in the wilderness on this, James. The issue is a writing one, not a psychology one.

Unless Character A is being delivered as omniscient, Character A can't know what Character B thinks about anything unless the context has conveyed that the Character B has told Character A what she/he thinks. (Even there, Character B may not truthfully say what he/she really thought, so Character A--unless written as omniscient--can't know what Character A really thinks).

But you can continue wandering off there in the wilderness if you like.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Which just shows that you're still wandering around in the wilderness on this, James. The issue is a writing one, not a psychology one.

Unless Character A is being delivered as omniscient, Character A can't know what Character B thinks about anything unless the context has conveyed that the Character B has told Character A what she/he thinks. (Even there, Character B may not truthfully say what he/she really thought, so Character A--unless written as omniscient--can't know what Character A really thinks).

But you can continue wandering off there in the wilderness if you like.

Spare me your pedestrian understanding of how people communicate. Dogs read us like books. We drip stuff like old timey milk trucks fulla melting ice.

 

[sr71plt]

This isn't about you, James. It's about letting writers know you're full of it as far as writing goes--at least on this point.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This isn't about you, James. It's about letting writers know you're full of it as far as writing goes--at least on this point.

YOU cant justify being a tard, Pilot. People communicate all kinds of ways. See my finger pointed at the monitor?

 

[LtLukas]

You cannot be 1st person POV and also know what another person feels or thinks or likes, unless you are shown to be gaining that knowledge inside the story. ( I know she has horrible periods because I have encountered her behavior on several occasions, etc.) By writing in 1st person, you have established that 1st person as a major character in the story, he or she can only observe what her senses tell her in the story. Third person POV, on the other hand can be omniscent, tell us how anyone thinks, because the narrator is outside the story.

Ok, I completely understand now. So, physiologically, I should show through her actions that she liked it, instead of saying she liked it. Got it, will definitely incorporate that into my writing in the future.

 

[LtLukas]

Which just shows that you're still wandering around in the wilderness on this, James. The issue is a writing one, not a psychology one.

Unless Character A is being delivered as omniscient, Character A can't know what Character B thinks about anything unless the context has conveyed that the Character B has told Character A what she/he thinks. (Even there, Character B may not truthfully say what he/she really thought, so Character A--unless written as omniscient--can't know what Character A really thinks).

But you can continue wandering off there in the wilderness if you like.

This is super helpful, and I see what you are saying now. Thanks!

 

[Iceprincess12]

This isn't my kind of story so just a few comments.

Every woman seems to be defined by their cup size or physical features, that feels awkward and tells me nothing about them. When Rachel meets Samantha it's an extremely uninteresting conversation.

"Rachel Sullivan. Have you ever been to the back rooms?"
No," "I thought that is where they did yoga. And I don't want to do yoga."
"It isn't quite yoga. Why don't you come back with me?" "I've noticed that the Tigress has done you a lot of good. And you have been tearing it up in some of the martial arts classes as well."

My impression of Rachel is that she is a strong individual, mentally and physically. She didn't even hesitate to follow Samantha though. I would have liked to have seen some inner conflict of being expected to follow rather than being asked. If she does have submissive tendencies, I would want a hint of that.

The sex between the opponents was very distant and removed. When Rachel asked about flair, I would like Samantha to give a knowing smile, or maybe tell her to wait. This would allow Rachel to fantasize a bit more and bring me into it, right now it feels very passive.

Finally during the bonus round instead of just describing the sex, weave in more of Rachels reactions, so it keeps me in the moment and I don't feel like a disinterested watcher.

Easy to read, a little slow in places and needs more character development but the high score says that people are enjoying it.

 

[AnnaTC]

I'm very visually oriented, and I enjoy looking at women, but I'm thinking more like "she's so pretty! Look at her skin, and those Grape Green eyes".

Of course I notice breasts, but I notice shape, size, and I like cleavage. But I'd never think, "oh, nice 'D's".

I hope this helps a little.

 

[robertreams]

Ding Dong anyone in there? What has psychology got to do with it? Or salivating dogs? I think you have finally lost it JBJ, well maybe not finally, maybe again?

 

[robertreams]

When you point a finger, three more point back at you