Feeback on my first Literotica story - FFM Threesome

[edwalu2]

Hi, I recently submitted my first story here, and it's now up: http://www.literotica.com/s/swingers-first-ffm-threesome

This is the true story of my girlfriend and I having our first swinging experience, so it's written from my perspective. I had some invaluable help in prepping this for publication, as you will see in the intro.

I did ignore some advice, which was to name myself in the story...I rejected that because when I considered it, it felt that the story would become a bit removed from me. I would be interested to know how people feel about that, if it makes any difference to their reader experience.

There is also a humongous glaring error that I have made towards the end, which I made after the editing help I received...if you spot it you get ten points!

 

[JLCC]

I did ignore some advice, which was to name myself in the story...I rejected that because when I considered it, it felt that the story would become a bit removed from me. I would be interested to know how people feel about that, if it makes any difference to their reader experience.

That's a good question. I am interested too.

 

[rjordan]

There is also a humongous glaring error that I have made towards the end, which I made after the editing help I received...if you spot it you get ten points!

Well written, but like most "true" stories it's more of a diary entry than an actual story. So keeping it 1st person POV is better. No need to name yourself, unless one of the women calls your name in dialog.

No idea how I would spend an entire 10 points, but it looks to me like you swapped the names of the women in the last paragraph/sentence.

rj

 

[edwalu2]

Yes, it is of course exactly that! What a twerp. I understand it may be fixable, any idea how to go about correcting the name?

Thanks for your comments, the 'diary' element is part of what was difficult about writing it, for me. In my head I can easily visualise what happened from memory, and I was concerned that it would be less visual from the reader's point of view. Whether it is or not, I don't really know.

 

[rjordan]

Yes, it is of course exactly that! What a twerp. I understand it may be fixable, any idea how to go about correcting the name?

Fix it at your end, then resubmit it exactly as you did before but with EDIT at the end of the title. Lit will take it from there.

It's a common error so don't sweat it. In your case, it doesn't detract from following the action. Where I see it most is when the author has obviously changed the name of one of their characters and they miss one or more of the references for a variety of reasons.

Don't sweat it. Write more. We don't have any idea who you are, so we won't know when you deviate from what actually happens before, during or after the true event. Use that to your advantage to write something with more drama. True stories tend to be more description than storytelling. It's more interesting when you stretch your imagination some. Have Ania get pregnant or something.

rj

 

[edwalu2]

That's great, done that now thanks.

Ania getting pregnant you say...well, it's certainly a plot twist!

 

[robertreams]

You have a bad case of the "that"s. Remove all 'that's in this paragraph and the meaning is unchanged.
Ania was the first woman that we ever met through a swingers' website. She was also the first woman that Grace and I fucked together. It seems pretty simple now; all we did was put up a message that we were available for a meet and a couple of hours later she contacted us. We traded pictures - Ania certainly wasn't shy - and before we knew it we were texting each other to arrange to meet for a drink in a bar the following day.

 

[edwalu2]

Hmmm...it certainly seems so in that first paragraph - although it's only the third one that's (ho ho!) actually superfluous. I would still keep the first two because of how I want the sentence to sound, and the second is the intentional echo of the first.

Are you English or American? I think removing the first two probably sounds better to an American ear than an English one.

Good advice though, I will look out for overuse of them in future.

 

[TamLin01]

The prose is "puffy," if you'll pardon the term. There are lots of words used that you simply don't need, right from the get-go:

Ania was the first woman that we ever met through a swingers' website. She was also the first woman that Grace and I fucked together.

Now, I suppose that first sentence is an interesting enough fact. But the second is clearly more important, and once we get to that the previous sentence suddenly doesn't seem all that important. What does the reader need to know more, that you and "Grace" fucked this woman or that you met her on a website? Throw that first sentence out entirely. The opening line should just be:

Aria was the first woman grace and I ever fucked together.

Now that's an opening line. It's not Faulkner or anything, but what the hell. Another example:

To describe her, Ania was blonde and tan, about 5'5" and very busty which was a fantasy of my girlfriend Grace.

You don't need to tell us you're describing her, you can just go ahead with the description:

Aria was blonde and tan, about 5'5 etc.

That's it, that's fine, no preamble required. Also, the reader already knows that Grace is your girlfriend, so you can simply say "which was a fantasy for Grace." Although that's a weak, ass-backwards way to structure the sentence in the first place, so perhaps something like, "and very busty, which appealed to Grace" would sound a little more natural.

 

[robertreams]

you already have the echo and repetition on "first" why use a word you don't need and should be deemphasized rather than an important word FIRST. You also do not need ever, first is first! First ever means first first.

How about: Ania was the first woman we met through a swingers' web site and the first we fucked together. Putting the echo closer strengthens the echo.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with Robert with "That's" a big problem in my early writing as well.

I would lose words like 'very' Very busty can just be busty. I read that and hear the old comedian shows "She's very busty" audience "How busty is she?"

This was a speed bump for me.

This was simply mind blowing. A staple of lesbian porn, it's something that I had seen performed many times on a computer screen, of course. To experience the scene in the flesh was something almost beyond imagination. The air I was breathing seemed suffused with the scent of hot cunt as these two outrageous, beautiful whores

Simply is an extra, not needed "almost" is about the weakest word you can use. It was beyond imagination or it wasn't. Easier example "She was almost yelling" was she or wasn't she?

I think beyond imagination is too strong "mind blowing" might be better

The next point I will preface by saying it is my personal taste, I am not telling you how to write, but giving you feedback as a reader therefore my taste as a reader.

This is a married couple, not a guy and two strange women. The remark about two beautiful whores ruined this for me. Do you refer to your wife as a whore in your mind?

What I mean by that is if you are into some dirty talk "Look at you being my good little whore" okay, fine. But when you are thinking about your wife in your mind and "whore" is your word of choice it kills it for me.

I don't know if I am in the minority or majority with that, but I do know many swingers are loving couples and enjoy sharing, but have a deep love and respect for each other.

Whore is poor word choice that seems to ruin the loving affectionate relationship. Again, I will speak just for me.

Also...and maybe another matter of taste, but I think one others may agree with

"The scent of hot cunt"...not exactly sexy.

But overall it does have a good flow and is a fun little romp I think the things being pointed out here are common for first efforts and you will fix them all and improve with time and more writing

Best of luck here.

 

[litmlove]

Your story is pretty good. You seem to know what you are doing so I think it is fair for me to pick on your semicolon usage.

I think you understand the rules of the semicolon but don't understand its purpose

I don't entirely agree with the definition that a semicolon connects two or more independent clauses that don't quite justify being sentences. Usually this definition is valid but it transforms the semicolon into a tool where you can join any two clauses together. I like the semicolon definition which says the semicolon is used to separate two or more closely related clauses (which would otherwise cause confusion).

It seems pretty simple now; all we did was put up a message that we were available for a meet and a couple of hours later she contacted us.

^ From the 1st paragraph. Should have been a comma.

In fact, it made her sound all the more exciting; we couldn't wait to meet her and fuck her.

^OK, this works. Although, this semicolon is ripe for deletion which you would then rewrite these clauses into expanded sentences.

She looked so beautiful, and so filthy; I knew that we were going to experience a new frontier in our sexual explorations together and that it would be mind-blowingly hot.

^Joining two unconnected statements together? Yup.

Someone had trained Ania well; as her face tilted towards me, her mouth opened and her tongue slid out as she tried to touch the tip of my cock, which I held teasingly out of her reach.

^Yup, this works too. I would have moved the "Someone had trained Ania well" to the end of the sentence so you are not making thesis statements. Example: All was well; everybody was tired or sleep and not a sound was to be heard -Vs- Everybody was tired or sleep and not a sound was to be heard; peace had returned to the makeshift sex dungeon.

I could keep going but I think you understand what I am saying. Firefox counted 14 semicolons on the first page, ouch, that's too many. It's as if you have committed the sentence-equivalent sin of writing sentences with too many qualifying words. There is too much to consider and it's mentally exhausting after awhile. Remember you are comparing two ideas in one sentence.

If using semicolons is your style of writing, stop it, this is Fiction not Academic writing. May I suggest one semicolon per every 3000 words?

E: feel free to debate my interpretation

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I agree with Robert with "That's" a big problem in my early writing as well.

I would lose words like 'very' Very busty can just be busty. I read that and hear the old comedian shows "She's very busty" audience "How busty is she?"

This was a speed bump for me.

This was simply mind blowing. A staple of lesbian porn, it's something that I had seen performed many times on a computer screen, of course. To experience the scene in the flesh was something almost beyond imagination. The air I was breathing seemed suffused with the scent of hot cunt as these two outrageous, beautiful whores

Simply is an extra, not needed "almost" is about the weakest word you can use. It was beyond imagination or it wasn't. Easier example "She was almost yelling" was she or wasn't she?

I think beyond imagination is too strong "mind blowing" might be better

The next point I will preface by saying it is my personal taste, I am not telling you how to write, but giving you feedback as a reader therefore my taste as a reader.

This is a married couple, not a guy and two strange women. The remark about two beautiful whores ruined this for me. Do you refer to your wife as a whore in your mind?

What I mean by that is if you are into some dirty talk "Look at you being my good little whore" okay, fine. But when you are thinking about your wife in your mind and "whore" is your word of choice it kills it for me.

I don't know if I am in the minority or majority with that, but I do know many swingers are loving couples and enjoy sharing, but have a deep love and respect for each other.

Whore is poor word choice that seems to ruin the loving affectionate relationship. Again, I will speak just for me.

Also...and maybe another matter of taste, but I think one others may agree with

"The scent of hot cunt"...not exactly sexy.

But overall it does have a good flow and is a fun little romp I think the things being pointed out here are common for first efforts and you will fix them all and improve with time and more writing

Best of luck here.

I discovered something yesterday. Before cup sizes were invented porn writers used terms like maidenly, full-bosomed, and matronly to refer to breasts. I'll post some of what I found.

This is from 1911.

Thereupon I made bold to open the wrapper and gaze upon the magnificent bubbies over which my hand had been delightedly wandering. They poured out, full, warm, luscious and tantalising, and I buried my face furiously in the glowing flesh. A pair of fairly large but shapely teats surmounted the white orbs, and I sucked them greedily.

From the 1920s TWO FLAPPERS IN PARIS.

Her breasts were two sweet little hills of snow tipped by a rosy nipple.

 

[robertreams]

e looked so beautiful, and so filthy; I knew that we were going to experience a new frontier in our sexual explorations together and that it would be mind-blowingly hot.
It seems pretty simple now; all we did was put up a message that we were available for a meet and a couple of hours later she contacted us.
I hate to belabor a point but I smell three more "that"s

". . . I knew we would experience a new frontier of mind-blowingly hot sexual exploration." (no "and" either).
". . . put up a message we would be available. "That" is a definite pronoun and should only be used to refer to definitely established nouns, e.g. The car that we bought. "That" should never be used to refer to unstated ideas. Like Lovecraft I discovered early in my own writing that, if I let that happen, that can be like an infection that spreads through all that I write.

 

[edwalu2]

The prose is "puffy," if you'll pardon the term. There are lots of words used that you simply don't need, right from the get-go:

Ania was the first woman that we ever met through a swingers' website. She was also the first woman that Grace and I fucked together.

Now, I suppose that first sentence is an interesting enough fact. But the second is clearly more important, and once we get to that the previous sentence suddenly doesn't seem all that important. What does the reader need to know more, that you and "Grace" fucked this woman or that you met her on a website? Throw that first sentence out entirely. The opening line should just be:

Aria was the first woman grace and I ever fucked together.

Now that's an opening line. It's not Faulkner or anything, but what the hell. Another example:

To describe her, Ania was blonde and tan, about 5'5" and very busty which was a fantasy of my girlfriend Grace.

You don't need to tell us you're describing her, you can just go ahead with the description:

Aria was blonde and tan, about 5'5 etc.

That's it, that's fine, no preamble required. Also, the reader already knows that Grace is your girlfriend, so you can simply say "which was a fantasy for Grace." Although that's a weak, ass-backwards way to structure the sentence in the first place, so perhaps something like, "and very busty, which appealed to Grace" would sound a little more natural.

Yes, all totally on the nail.

To explain, this was originally written on the suggestion of another woman that we met prior to meeting her, so it stemmed from things that made sense in that context. When it started to become a fully fledged story I should have gone back and looked at it from that point of view. There would have been some significant changes I think.

For example, the first line made sense in that context (as it referenced the site we were all on), but for this submission it's superfluous.

 

[edwalu2]

I agree with Robert with "That's" a big problem in my early writing as well.

I would lose words like 'very' Very busty can just be busty. I read that and hear the old comedian shows "She's very busty" audience "How busty is she?"

This was a speed bump for me.

This was simply mind blowing. A staple of lesbian porn, it's something that I had seen performed many times on a computer screen, of course. To experience the scene in the flesh was something almost beyond imagination. The air I was breathing seemed suffused with the scent of hot cunt as these two outrageous, beautiful whores

Simply is an extra, not needed "almost" is about the weakest word you can use. It was beyond imagination or it wasn't. Easier example "She was almost yelling" was she or wasn't she?

I think beyond imagination is too strong "mind blowing" might be better

The next point I will preface by saying it is my personal taste, I am not telling you how to write, but giving you feedback as a reader therefore my taste as a reader.

This is a married couple, not a guy and two strange women. The remark about two beautiful whores ruined this for me. Do you refer to your wife as a whore in your mind?

What I mean by that is if you are into some dirty talk "Look at you being my good little whore" okay, fine. But when you are thinking about your wife in your mind and "whore" is your word of choice it kills it for me.

I don't know if I am in the minority or majority with that, but I do know many swingers are loving couples and enjoy sharing, but have a deep love and respect for each other.

Whore is poor word choice that seems to ruin the loving affectionate relationship. Again, I will speak just for me.

Also...and maybe another matter of taste, but I think one others may agree with

"The scent of hot cunt"...not exactly sexy.

But overall it does have a good flow and is a fun little romp I think the things being pointed out here are common for first efforts and you will fix them all and improve with time and more writing

Best of luck here.

I think that's very much a matter of personal sensibility. This is a true story, and 'Grace' and I do have a very loving and affectionate relationship. Within that, she loves me to call her a whore. So I call her a whore. She also calls me a whore. I like it too.

Other women that we have met love the term too, and the reason almost certainly is because it is a degrading one, it's loaded with politically incorrect suggestion and taboo. What can i tell you, it turns us on!

Maybe we are harking back to John Ford...'Tis Pity She's A Whore, after all!

 

[JLCC]

In defense of "that", I recall grade school writing where the teacher was particular about using it. I recognize too, conventions change. Further, I am Canadian and maybe this is evidence of stronger British influence. I might be wrong.

As a helper on this story, I am very interested in all this feedback. Excellent advice.

 

[edwalu2]

Your story is pretty good. You seem to know what you are doing so I think it is fair for me to pick on your semicolon usage.

I think you understand the rules of the semicolon but don't understand its purpose

I don't entirely agree with the definition that a semicolon connects two or more independent clauses that don't quite justify being sentences. Usually this definition is valid but it transforms the semicolon into a tool where you can join any two clauses together. I like the semicolon definition which says the semicolon is used to separate two or more closely related clauses (which would otherwise cause confusion).


^ From the 1st paragraph. Should have been a comma.


^OK, this works. Although, this semicolon is ripe for deletion which you would then rewrite these clauses into expanded sentences.


^Joining two unconnected statements together? Yup.


^Yup, this works too. I would have moved the "Someone had trained Ania well" to the end of the sentence so you are not making thesis statements. Example: All was well; everybody was tired or sleep and not a sound was to be heard -Vs- Everybody was tired or sleep and not a sound was to be heard; peace had returned to the makeshift sex dungeon.

I could keep going but I think you understand what I am saying. Firefox counted 14 semicolons on the first page, ouch, that's too many. It's as if you have committed the sentence-equivalent sin of writing sentences with too many qualifying words. There is too much to consider and it's mentally exhausting after awhile. Remember you are comparing two ideas in one sentence.

If using semicolons is your style of writing, stop it, this is Fiction not Academic writing. May I suggest one semicolon per every 3000 words?

E: feel free to debate my interpretation

What can I say here, but guilty as charged; I am without doubt more than overly fond of the semicolon.

Obviously needs some serious thought from me, I hadn't given them any consideration. They just felt right.

 

[edwalu2]

e looked so beautiful, and so filthy; I knew that we were going to experience a new frontier in our sexual explorations together and that it would be mind-blowingly hot.
It seems pretty simple now; all we did was put up a message that we were available for a meet and a couple of hours later she contacted us.
I hate to belabor a point but I smell three more "that"s

". . . I knew we would experience a new frontier of mind-blowingly hot sexual exploration." (no "and" either).
". . . put up a message we would be available. "That" is a definite pronoun and should only be used to refer to definitely established nouns, e.g. The car that we bought. "That" should never be used to refer to unstated ideas. Like Lovecraft I discovered early in my own writing that, if I let that happen, that can be like an infection that spreads through all that I write.

Noted. It's amazing how you don't even see these things until someone else picks up on them.

I like the idea of Lovecraft influencing erotic writing, by the way. Expect my next piece to be weighed down by eldritch orgasms and cocks of a decidedly non-Euclidian aspect.

 

[TamLin01]

In more general style terms, if this is a true story I would suggest writing in a way that sounds less...Porny.

I realize people like to read that kind of thing, but if the story doesn't *sound* real then you're sacrificing the major asset of it being a true story in the first place. There are tens of thousands of completely fictional FFM stories on this site; if this is a true FFM story, then you should take advantage of that to distinguish it from all the others and maybe write in a style that's a bit more grounded and a little less "Dear Penthouse." Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that in and of itself.

 

[sr71plt]

In defense of "that", I recall grade school writing where the teacher was particular about using it. I recognize too, conventions change. Further, I am Canadian and maybe this is evidence of stronger British influence. I might be wrong.

As a helper on this story, I am very interested in all this feedback. Excellent advice.

Yep, like adverbs, the word "that" exists because it has its uses. And like adverbs, if you get rid of all instances of "that," you are "overknowing" what you actually know about writing.

 

[edwalu2]

In more general style terms, if this is a true story I would suggest writing in a way that sounds less...Porny.

I realize people like to read that kind of thing, but if the story doesn't *sound* real then you're sacrificing the major asset of it being a true story in the first place. There are tens of thousands of completely fictional FFM stories on this site; if this is a true FFM story, then you should take advantage of that to distinguish it from all the others and maybe write in a style that's a bit more grounded and a little less "Dear Penthouse." Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that in and of itself.

Sorry, I don't get what you are trying to say here at all. Make it be like something else?

It is a true story. I'm not sure how I could make it sound more true, I've described it exactly as I remember it. Obviously the telling is more than 'I fucked her and then she fucked her and then they fucked me' because I'm attempting to communicate the feelings of being in that situation to people who weren't there experiencing it for themselves.

So bearing that in mind, in what way should it be more 'grounded' and less 'Dear Penthouse'? I have no real idea what a Dear Penthouse story is like I'm afraid (except one presumably sounds like what I've written), or what I would be changing to make it less like one. I also have no idea how one would distinguish one story from tens of thousands of others. Surely they aren't all the same?

 

[PennLady]

It may be that the story has a "Dear Penthouse" vibe to it because it seems more like a fantasy in many ways. For example, you meet this woman and bring her home and it seems like without discussing much in the way of details, she knows and wants everything you and your wife wanted.

Perhaps that's the way it happened, and that's fine, but it seems a little fantastical to me.

I was reading your story and puzzled by the frequent use of "filthy" to describe everything -- the situation, the women, the sex toys, positions, etc. I'm not saying it all need to be candlelight and roses and silk sheets, but there should at least be some variety.

 

[robertreams]

I think you are thinking of the story as a news report by a person involved. Think of it as a fictional story you wrote. Then you can name a protagonist (1st person) without it being "you". The story becomes a first person narrative. Or better yet, tell the story in the third person, then you can give us motivations, etc. Telling us a story rather than giving us a recap allows you and your characters a lot more freedom.

 

[TamLin01]

For the record, I don't think this is a bad story. It's not a phenomenally good story, but few are. I just mention this because the writer is getting a lot of criticism here--and that's a good thing, because criticism is useful, and if anything he (and every writer, everywhere) could use a lot more of it. But even so, I'd hate for him to feel conflicted or put-upon, because that doesn't help anyone either.