Two "th" sounds in English

[renard_ruse]

I didn't know that there are two distinct "th" sounds in English until about a year ago. I saw this on Wikipedia and was stunned. They always sounded the same to me.

I try to tell the difference, but I'm still not really sure. Apparently one is made with vibration in the throat (the, for example) and the other on is not (teeth, for example).

I'm still not fully convinced, but they couldn't say it on Wikipedia if it wasn't true.

 

[toubab]

I didn't know that there are two distinct "th" sounds in English until about a year ago. I saw this on Wikipedia and was stunned. They always sounded the same to me.

I try to tell the difference, but I'm still not really sure. Apparently one is made with vibration in the throat (the, for example) and the other on is not (teeth, for example).

I'm still not fully convinced, but they couldn't say it on Wikipedia if it wasn't true.

Seriously? You can't hear the difference?

 

[renard_ruse]

I actually didn't believe this until I noticed that native Spanish speakers don't have a problem saying "the" but have trouble with "teeth." I looked into it and Latin American Spanish does have the same sound as the "th" in the (one of a small number of languages besides English which does), yet its does not have the "th" sound found in "teeth." Oddly enough, the Spanish spoken in Spain is the opposite and has this reversed (its got the "th" in teeth, but not the one in the).

Very few languages in the world have either "th" sound, not even the other Germanic languages. I wonder if its phonological history derives from mispronunciations related to the bad teeth of English people causing words to be pronounced differently than they were in the original Germanic proto-language?

 

[renard_ruse]

Seriously? You can't hear the difference?

No, not really.

 

[toubab]

No, not really.

It's clear to me. I studied a foreign language when I was in the military and I learned quite a bit about English as a result. The sound of it, I mean. English is more guttural than a lot of languages. The 'th' in 'the' is more guttural than the 'th' in 'teeth' is. It has to do with making the first sound more in your throat and with the tip of your tongue between your top and bottom front teeth. The second one not so much in your throat and with the tip of your tongue touching the back of your top front teeth. More breath escapes your mouth on the second one.

I can't believe I just wrote that out like that.

 

[Cockaigne]

linguistic trivia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Olde
It's not ye' old shoppe. The Y is actually a thorn, pronounced "th". Archaic way of spelling it.
The more you know

 

[dolf]

a different as the sounds p & b, or t & d. the use of voice makes changes the sound produced. two sounds for one mouth movement.

 

[CandiCame]

You never took singing lessons. You have to do vocal warm-up exercises that prime you for both of those. You don't have good diction.

"Diction is done with the tip of the tongue and the teeth"
"Diction is done with the tip of the tongue and the teeth"
"DICTION IS DONE WITH THE TIP OF THE TONGUE AND THE TEETH"

...horrible, horrible flashbacks. Let me go smoke a pack of cigs so no one will EVER ask me to sing that one line for 2 hours strait ever again.

 

[Never]

It's clear to me. I studied a foreign language when I was in the military and I learned quite a bit about English as a result. The sound of it, I mean. English is more guttural than a lot of languages. The 'th' in 'the' is more guttural than the 'th' in 'teeth' is. It has to do with making the first sound more in your throat and with the tip of your tongue between your top and bottom front teeth. The second one not so much in your throat and with the tip of your tongue touching the back of your top front teeth. More breath escapes your mouth on the second one.

I can't believe I just wrote that out like that.

They don't sound different to me because I put the tip of my tongue between my teeth when I say 'teeth.' Alternatively, when I say "tether," I tap the back of my front teeth.

I suspect the problem is that 'teeth' isn't pronounced the same way throughout the English-speaking world.

 

[Que]

They don't sound different to me because I put the tip of my tongue between my teeth when I say 'teeth.' Alternatively, when I say "tether," I tap the back of my front teeth.

I suspect the problem is that 'teeth' isn't pronounced the same way throughout the English-speaking world.

'specially where it is pronounced "Teefs"

I put the end of the flat of my tongue between my teeth when I say THe or teTHer

I put the tip of my tongue on the back of my teeth then release when I say teeTH

 

[DesEsseintes]

They were separate letters in Anglo-Saxon: th for soft and thorn for hard. However one pronounces the individual phonemes, surely in every accent one can distinguish an important difference between, say, 'There' and 'Faith'?

 

[Que]

They were separate letters in Anglo-Saxon: th for soft and thorn for hard. However one pronounces the individual phonemes, surely in every accent one can distinguish an important difference between, say, 'There' and 'Faith'?

Ok now I am confused because those sound the same to me. Mabe because I am whispering.

ETA: but as I analyze it, my tongue is as above. I think I just bite off the th in teeth more crisply.

 

[DesEsseintes]

If ever a thread called for some sound clips...

 

[toubab]

They don't sound different to me because I put the tip of my tongue between my teeth when I say 'teeth.' Alternatively, when I say "tether," I tap the back of my front teeth.

I suspect the problem is that 'teeth' isn't pronounced the same way throughout the English-speaking world.

If you don't pronounce teeth and teethe differently you're doing it wrong.

 

[toubab]

Ok now I am confused because those sound the same to me. Mabe because I am whispering.

ETA: but as I analyze it, my tongue is as above. I think I just bite off the th in teeth more crisply.

No, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Never]

If you don't pronounce teeth and teethe differently you're doing it wrong.

1) The idea that you can pronounce a word 'wrong' is an odd one. I've lived in Oregon, Massachusetts, Texas, Michigan, and now Nevada. I've been told I have an accent in most places I've lived, but no one has said that my pronunciation is intelligible or poor.

2) I do pronounce teeth and teethe differently. However, I bite my tongue for both of them.

No, you're doing something wrong.

The same word in English can be pronounced dozens of different ways.

 

[toubab]

1) The idea that you can pronounce a word 'wrong' is an odd one. I've lived in Oregon, Massachusetts, Texas, Michigan, and now Nevada. I've been told I have an accent in most places I've lived, but no one has said that my pronunciation is intelligible or poor.

2) I do pronounce teeth and teethe differently. However, I bite my tongue for both of them.

Well, if you pronounce them differently you should be able to hear the difference.

 

[Brollyanna]

*Shirley the difference is obvious when you pronounce think and this.





*Surely.

 

[Que]

If ever a thread called for some sound clips...

indeed.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0pQFqibilhx

*Shirley the difference is obvious when you pronounce think and this.

THose seem rather distinct and obviously different.

...and don't call me Shirley.

 

[Never]

Well, if you pronounce them differently you should be able to hear the difference.

Yes, I can hear a difference between teeth and teethe. That has nothing to do with whether I use a different 'th' sound when pronouncing 'the' and 'teeth.'

I bite the tip of my tongue for 'the,' 'teeth,' and 'teethe.' For 'teethe,' I vibrate my throat, but I don't do that for 'the' or 'teeth.'

 

[Que]

If you don't pronounce teeth and teethe differently you're doing it wrong.

I agree with Never that there is no wrong until it becomes unintelligible, but I do have an odd affectation to my speech. No one, except my older sister sounds like me.

Over the two-way, everyone recognizes my voice instantly.

It comes from criss-crossed the country and being a natural mimic. I parrot human speech. In a week in any locale, I do not sound like the locals to the locals, but if I phoned out someone elsewhere would think so. I always tried to titrate it back a bit so as to not appear that I was goofing on the locals by overdoing it.

 

[toubab]

Yes, I can hear a difference between teeth and teethe. That has nothing to do with whether I use a different 'th' sound when pronouncing 'the' and 'teeth.'

I bite the tip of my tongue for 'the,' 'teeth,' and 'teethe.' For 'teethe,' I vibrate my throat, but I don't do that for 'the' or 'teeth.'

I'd bet my bottom dollar you don't pronounce the 'th' in 'the' and 'teeth' the same.

 

[toubab]

I agree with Never that there is no wrong until it becomes unintelligible, but I do have an odd affectation to my speech. No one, except my older sister sounds like me.

Over the two-way, everyone recognizes my voice instantly.

It comes from criss-crossed the country and being a natural mimic. I parrot human speech. In a week in any locale, I do not sound like the locals to the locals, but if I phoned out someone elsewhere would think so. I always tried to titrate it back a bit so as to not appear that I was goofing on the locals by overdoing it.

It IS unintelligible if someone pronounces 'teeth' and 'teethe' the same, so therefore, by your definition, it would be wrong to do so.

 

[Never]

I'd bet my bottom dollar you don't pronounce the 'th' in 'the' and 'teeth' the same.

I'm going to guess you pronounce the as thee while I pronounce it as thuh.

 

[toubab]

I'm going to guess you pronounce the as thee while I pronounce it as thuh.

I pronounce it both ways. Depends on context.