Democrats trying to circumvent own law - again

[someoneyouknow]

It seems that finagling Obamneycare to benefit unions and others wasn't enough, noww Senate Democrats want to give people who didn't hand over their money to a private company ANOTHER chance to hand over their money before the government reaches into their pocket and penalizes them for not handing over their money.

WASHINGTON — Senate Democrats urged President Obama on Sunday to allow extra time for some people to sign up for health insurance as hundreds of thousands of Americans raced to beat the enrollment deadline.

More than 10 million people selected or were assigned to health plans in the latest enrollment period. Federal officials reported a final surge over the weekend, with more than 60,000 people using HealthCare.gov at times on Sunday.

Consumers could sign up by phone, but some callers on Sunday were told that the wait time would be 30 minutes. Others were told that they should leave their phone numbers so they could be called back later.

“We apologize for the inconvenience,” said a recorded message, which noted “high call volume” on the toll-free telephone line for the federal insurance marketplace.

Administration officials said they were considering a “special enrollment period” for people who were subject to tax penalties because they went without health coverage in 2014, and who also missed the Sunday deadline to obtain coverage for 2015.

Many of them may not even realize that they owe the money until they file their federal income tax returns. Treasury officials said up to six million taxpayers might have to pay such penalties. Tax returns are due on April 15, two months after the deadline for people to sign up for health insurance.
. . . . . . . . .

And so on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/u...-some-who-failed-to-get-health-insurance.html



Absolutely not. Make the government reach into their pockets and forcibly extract the money. This is what you wanted, deal with it.

 

[mark_j]

Remember, The ACA is the greatest thing to come along since the invention of canned beer.

Because it is like, you know, fair and all...

 

[cowslinger64]

It seems that finagling Obamneycare to benefit unions and others wasn't enough, noww Senate Democrats want to give people who didn't hand over their money to a private company ANOTHER chance to hand over their money before the government reaches into their pocket and penalizes them for not handing over their money.

.

Care to explain how ACA directly benefits unions? Since we're unable to take any advantage of it, and our benefits are paid through our union contracts by our employers.

Be pissed at the gop obstructionists if ya like, but people were suffering and dying without having any access to healthcare. It IS better than nothing, relying on being treated at the emergency room was the best the republicans have done... which was mostly nothing. If it weren't for those assholes, single payer would have become a reality.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Care to explain how ACA directly benefits unions? Since we're unable to take any advantage of it, and our benefits are paid through our union contracts by our employers.

Be pissed at the gop obstructionists if ya like, but people were suffering and dying without having any access to healthcare. It IS better than nothing, relying on being treated at the emergency room was the best the republicans have done... which was mostly nothing. If it weren't for those assholes, single payer would have become a reality.

Unions got an exemption from having to pay a fee which all other large group health plans have to pay. To quote the following Forbes article:

That provision which appears in Section 1341 (b)(1)(A) establishes a reinsurance program to compensate insurers on exchanges in the individual market if they are hit with higher than expected costs to cover those with pre-existing conditions. This will come from insurers and self-insured employers who pay in proportion to the number of people they cover. The target is to raise $25 billion during 2014, amounting to $63 per covered employee. The union exemption would kick in for 2015 and 2016.

As reported in a Wall Street Journal editorial, “The unions hate this reinsurance transfer because it takes from their members in the form of higher premiums and gives to people on the exchanges.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...nt-as-other-self-insured-groups-get-scrooged/

So apparently every other large group plan is forced to hand over their money to private companies, but just not unions, the ones who whine the loudest about getting benefits for its members. Apparently unions want people to hand over their money whether they want to or not, but they don't want to have to do the same thing.

Be pissed at the gop obstructionists if ya like, but people were suffering and dying without having any access to healthcare.

People are suffering and dying with access to healthcare. Forcing people to hand over their money to a private company won't change that fact, especially since no one has to take personal responsibility for themselves. They can continue to be obese, drug addled, drunk smokers all they want, secure in the knowledge that someone else gets to pick up the tab.

If the idea behind Obamneycare was to make people healthier, it has failed miserably because no one has to change their lifestyle choices.

 

[KingOrfeo]

If the idea behind Obamneycare was to make people healthier, it has failed miserably because no one has to change their lifestyle choices.

No UHC system in the world requires that, AFAIK, but none has turned out to be a bad idea for that reason (nor any other).

 

[someoneyouknow]

No UHC system in the world requires that, AFAIK, but none has turned out to be a bad idea for that reason (nor any other).

Which shows the failure of such systems. If the whole point isn't to get people healthy, then what is the point? Just to pay a private company because the government says so?

There was a much simpler way to implement this program. All that had to be done was say no one could be denied insurance AND the companies had to provide reasonable premiums for those with pre-existing conditions.

Instead, we're forced to hand over our money, and if we don't, the government reaches into our bank accounts and forcibly extracts the money.

Sounds a lot like the mafia.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Which shows the failure of such systems. If the whole point isn't to get people healthy, then what is the point?

To get people healthy. And it works, without any lifestyle-choices testing, in countries that have UCH. Have you any evidence that the rate of smoking, drinking, etc., is any higher in those countries than here? Or that the average level of health is any lower?

Just to pay a private company because the government says so?

And that is what is wrong with the ACA. As Michael Moore put it, in discussions of health-care reform, "the health insurance companies are the enemy and should not have a place at the table." The fact that they still even exist shows it wasn't done right. Still, it's a start.

There was a much simpler way to implement this program.

Yes, Canadian-style single-payer.

 

[someoneyouknow]

To get people healthy. And it works, without any lifestyle-choices testing, in countries that have UCH. Have you any evidence that the rate of smoking, drinking, etc., is any higher in those countries than here? Or that the average level of health is any lower?



And that is what is wrong with the ACA. As Michael Moore put it, in discussions of health-care reform, "the health insurance companies are the enemy and should not have a place at the table." The fact that they still exist shows it wasn't done right. Still, it's a start.



Yes, Canadian-style single-payer.

You just said the point of these systems was not to get people healthy. Now you're saying it is. Which is it?

In many countries the level of smoking, drinking and drugs is higher than the U.S. but since the healthy are forced to pay for lung transplants for smokers, addiction services for those who chose to get high and liver transplants for alcoholics, the numbers make it seem like those people are healthier.

This is the difference between those who think people should be forced to do something and those who believe people should be able to make their own choices. Insurance, especially medical insurance, is a losing proposition to the vast majority of people because they never get anything out of it. It's just a black hole in which to pour money.

 

[cowslinger64]

Unions got an exemption from having to pay a fee which all other large group health plans have to pay. To quote the following Forbes article:

That provision which appears in Section 1341 (b)(1)(A) establishes a reinsurance program to compensate insurers on exchanges in the individual market if they are hit with higher than expected costs to cover those with pre-existing conditions. This will come from insurers and self-insured employers who pay in proportion to the number of people they cover. The target is to raise $25 billion during 2014, amounting to $63 per covered employee. The union exemption would kick in for 2015 and 2016.

As reported in a Wall Street Journal editorial, “The unions hate this reinsurance transfer because it takes from their members in the form of higher premiums and gives to people on the exchanges.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...nt-as-other-self-insured-groups-get-scrooged/

So apparently every other large group plan is forced to hand over their money to private companies, but just not unions, the ones who whine the loudest about getting benefits for its members. Apparently unions want people to hand over their money whether they want to or not, but they don't want to have to do the same thing.



People are suffering and dying with access to healthcare. Forcing people to hand over their money to a private company won't change that fact, especially since no one has to take personal responsibility for themselves. They can continue to be obese, drug addled, drunk smokers all they want, secure in the knowledge that someone else gets to pick up the tab.

If the idea behind Obamneycare was to make people healthier, it has failed miserably because no one has to change their lifestyle choices.

That's old news...and trusting forbes with a non biased story about unions? Come on man..


http://www.yourhealthcaresimplified.org/news/obamacare-and-unions/

If you can find something more recent, I'll be glad to read it.

The idea behind ACA was to offer preventative care for people...do away with pre-existing condition issues and keep people from being nearly dead before going to the emergency room to seek treatment. Like I said, the anger should be aimed where it belongs...

Btw... the stupidity regarding union dues is a ridiculous tiresome one. I trade my 33 dollars a month for protections, arbitration, higher wages and benefits brought to me by the power of a collective. Right to work has done jack shit other than lower all that and take it away in many instances.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You just said the point of these systems was not to get people healthy.

No, I didn't.

Now you're saying it is. Which is it?

To get people healthy. By making sure no one lacks access to health care. And when you go to the doctor -- if you get to -- the doctor is going to quiz you and at least, where applicable, admonish you about your unhealthy habits, and maybe educate you about ways you can quit smoking, drinking, overeating, etc. But if you condition getting care in the first place on cleaning up your act, people aren't going to clean up, they'll just try to go without care, and the average health levels suffer even more.

 

[phrodeau]

(edited)

Many of them may not even realize that they owe the money until they file their federal income tax returns.

What, you mean after the massive advertisement campaigns and pundit repetitions, retweeting and e-blasting about the insurance requirements, there are people with enough income to file tax returns who don't know? Who are these people?

 

[CandiCame]

It seems that finagling Obamneycare to benefit unions and others wasn't enough, noww Senate Democrats want to give people who didn't hand over their money to a private company ANOTHER chance to hand over their money before the government reaches into their pocket and penalizes them for not handing over their money.

WASHINGTON — Senate Democrats urged President Obama on Sunday to allow extra time for some people to sign up for health insurance as hundreds of thousands of Americans raced to beat the enrollment deadline.

More than 10 million people selected or were assigned to health plans in the latest enrollment period. Federal officials reported a final surge over the weekend, with more than 60,000 people using HealthCare.gov at times on Sunday.

Consumers could sign up by phone, but some callers on Sunday were told that the wait time would be 30 minutes. Others were told that they should leave their phone numbers so they could be called back later.

“We apologize for the inconvenience,” said a recorded message, which noted “high call volume” on the toll-free telephone line for the federal insurance marketplace.

Administration officials said they were considering a “special enrollment period” for people who were subject to tax penalties because they went without health coverage in 2014, and who also missed the Sunday deadline to obtain coverage for 2015.

Many of them may not even realize that they owe the money until they file their federal income tax returns. Treasury officials said up to six million taxpayers might have to pay such penalties. Tax returns are due on April 15, two months after the deadline for people to sign up for health insurance.
. . . . . . . . .

And so on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/16/u...-some-who-failed-to-get-health-insurance.html



Absolutely not. Make the government reach into their pockets and forcibly extract the money. This is what you wanted, deal with it.

You seem confused. How is extending the deadline because of a high volume "circumventing the law'? Getting rid of the enrollment period was part of the original law that republicans protested and eventually took out during the congressional re-write. Were it up to the democrats, the folk you've isolated, there would be no need to extend the enrollment period because there would be no enrollment period. People could change their plan willy-nilly whenever they wanted. Republicans thought that such an idea was expensive and would cost a fortune in man-hours and be difficult to track, which is a correct assertion, and decided to keep the enrollment period. Democrats countered by making the enrollment period more fluid for the first few years. It's called compromise. It's how our system is meant to work and I don't understand what your issue is with it.

 

[CandiCame]

You just said the point of these systems was not to get people healthy. Now you're saying it is. Which is it?

In many countries the level of smoking, drinking and drugs is higher than the U.S. but since the healthy are forced to pay for lung transplants for smokers, addiction services for those who chose to get high and liver transplants for alcoholics, the numbers make it seem like those people are healthier.

This is the difference between those who think people should be forced to do something and those who believe people should be able to make their own choices. Insurance, especially medical insurance, is a losing proposition to the vast majority of people because they never get anything out of it. It's just a black hole in which to pour money.

You know that it's /ridiculously/ difficult for a smoker to get an organ transplant, right? Not just lung but ANY organ. As a smoker I got to learn that when I offered to give my grandpa my kidney. They won't take organs from smokers, and if you smoke you get knocked to the bottom of the donar list. You can take these "smoking cessation" classes and shit to try to help but that's like this whole big thing. Same with drug abuse. Basically they're not going to give you a new organ if they think that you're just going to break it. We have a massive organ shortage in the US right now. It's hard as hell to get on the list if you're over 75 too.

Basically, my grandpa is gonna die as soon as the dialysis stops working. Is the bullet point. Despite having the free insurance his entire life because he has tribal insurance. It's not saving him the way you seem to think socialized insurance would. And the man hasn't smoked in 10 years. He quit AND went on a special diet to try to not die.

 

[CandiCame]

Unions got an exemption from having to pay a fee which all other large group health plans have to pay. To quote the following Forbes article:

That provision which appears in Section 1341 (b)(1)(A) establishes a reinsurance program to compensate insurers on exchanges in the individual market if they are hit with higher than expected costs to cover those with pre-existing conditions. This will come from insurers and self-insured employers who pay in proportion to the number of people they cover. The target is to raise $25 billion during 2014, amounting to $63 per covered employee. The union exemption would kick in for 2015 and 2016.

As reported in a Wall Street Journal editorial, “The unions hate this reinsurance transfer because it takes from their members in the form of higher premiums and gives to people on the exchanges.”

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...nt-as-other-self-insured-groups-get-scrooged/

So apparently every other large group plan is forced to hand over their money to private companies, but just not unions, the ones who whine the loudest about getting benefits for its members. Apparently unions want people to hand over their money whether they want to or not, but they don't want to have to do the same thing.



People are suffering and dying with access to healthcare. Forcing people to hand over their money to a private company won't change that fact, especially since no one has to take personal responsibility for themselves. They can continue to be obese, drug addled, drunk smokers all they want, secure in the knowledge that someone else gets to pick up the tab.

If the idea behind Obamneycare was to make people healthier, it has failed miserably because no one has to change their lifestyle choices.

So... do you not understand the article? Or does the article not understand the tax code? That says that there's a two year adjustment period because the government expect insurance companies to overcharge for the first couple of years and they want people who don't have the money to cover that increase to not have to deal with it. That period can be extended for, if I'm remembering right, an additional 3-6 years, like the first time homebuyer credit. It's just a cushion.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

obama is a pile of shit

 

[CandiCame]

What, you mean after the massive advertisement campaigns and pundit repetitions, retweeting and e-blasting about the insurance requirements, there are people with enough income to file tax returns who don't know? Who are these people?

No, he's right. But it's not that they don't know. I swear to god 90% of my clients have been like, "So I flat out lied to the government to get free insurance. That's not gonna bite me in the ass, now is it?" or "So I flat out lied about my employee payroll so that they'd qualify for free insurance. That's not gonna bite me in the ass, now is it?" or "So I flat out lied on my schedule C so that I'd qualify as a small business so I could get free insurance instead of claiming my entire income. That's not gonna bite me in the ass now is it?" or some variation of that theme. And then they expect me to fix it and have them come out not owing anything. If you'd just claim your shit correctly, I can. I can work numbers like some sort of mathmagician. But I can't unfuck you once you've lied to the government. I could have easily found something to write off to cover the couple hundred bucks the fine would be but Jesus Fuck why did EVERYONE LIE TO THE GODDAMN GOVERNMENT!? That fucking phone hasn't stopped ringing. My desk has been occupied constantly. If I wanted to actually do taxes I'd work as a /real/ accountant. I took this job specifically because tho the pay was shitty, it allowed me tons of time to fuck off. I am so sick that my fucking off time is being occupied by people confessing to me like I'm some kind of governmental priest. I don't give a shit about your lies. Yes, you've fucked yourself. Leave me alone. I'm trying to play Rune Factory 4.

 

[someoneyouknow]

So... do you not understand the article? Or does the article not understand the tax code? That says that there's a two year adjustment period because the government expect insurance companies to overcharge for the first couple of years and they want people who don't have the money to cover that increase to not have to deal with it. That period can be extended for, if I'm remembering right, an additional 3-6 years, like the first time homebuyer credit. It's just a cushion.

What tax code? This isn't a tax. It's a forced mandate to hand over your money to a private company. If you don't, the government reaches into your bank account and forcibly extracts the money.

Taxes go for governmental operations, not pay the bonuses of insurance company execs.

 

[Boxlicker101]

What tax code? This isn't a tax. It's a forced mandate to hand over your money to a private company. If you don't, the government reaches into your bank account and forcibly extracts the money.

Taxes go for governmental operations, not pay the bonuses of insurance company execs.

I agree, it's a fine or penalty, not a tax. However, SCOTUS distorted logic and ruled otherwise.

 

[miles]

I wish people would stop hammering Obamacare.

If it only helps one person it will be worth it.