Could we get a Hall of Fame for Stand-Alones?

[Never]

As a reader, it's discouraging to check the Hall of Fame for a category and discover that the vast majority of included stories are part of an ongoing series.

It means I either have to read through from the beginning to get to the good chapter or I have to jump into a story where I don't know the various characters/setting/plot so far.

Is there any way we could get a Hall of Fame that just has highly rated stand-alone offerings?

 

[tw_holt]

As a reader, it's discouraging to check the Hall of Fame for a category and discover that the vast majority of included stories are part of an ongoing series.

It means I either have to read through from the beginning to get to the good chapter or I have to jump into a story where I don't know the various characters/setting/plot so far.

Is there any way we could get a Hall of Fame that just has highly rated stand-alone offerings?

this is great idea. I feel the same way.

 

[sr71plt]

Good suggestion, but you'd have to propose it directly to the site editor, Laurel, via PM (private message, upper right hand corner of this page).

 

[TxRad]

Standalone vs Chapters has been an ongoing battle for many, many years.

I've always suggested that chapters don't get an official score until the whole is posted and then the average is it's score. A chapter to me is not a story. Just a chapter, a part of a story.

 

[sr71plt]

I've always suggested that chapters don't get an official score until the whole is posted and then the average is it's score. A chapter to me is not a story. Just a chapter, a part of a story.

That's the way I see it too.

 

[SamScribble]

Standalone vs Chapters has been an ongoing battle for many, many years.

I've always suggested that chapters don't get an official score until the whole is posted and then the average is it's score. A chapter to me is not a story. Just a chapter, a part of a story.

I'm with you and Pilot on this, Tx. If you enter Literotica through 'the front door', it says Erotic Stories - not Erotica Chapters.

 

[legerdemer]

Exactly

When I score chapters, I am frequently at a loss of how to score. And it's worse when deciding whether to leave a comment or not. It's like tipping for the dessert but not the full meal.

 

[JKendallDane]

Standalone vs Chapters has been an ongoing battle for many, many years.

I've always suggested that chapters don't get an official score until the whole is posted and then the average is it's score. A chapter to me is not a story. Just a chapter, a part of a story.

And yet, there are many individual chapters from series stories that can very easily stand on their own. Broadbrushing them all as "not a story" isn't quite fair.

But I do totally agree with the idea of a dual HOF set-up for series and stand-alones. Since one is usually for "get on and get off" stories and the other tends to grab you by the throat and not let go until you finish the whole thing, we could name them "The Strokers & Chokers Hall of Fame"

 

[TxRad]

And yet, there are many individual chapters from series stories that can very easily stand on their own. Broadbrushing them all as "not a story" isn't quite fair.

But I do totally agree with the idea of a dual HOF set-up for series and stand-alones. Since one is usually for "get on and get off" stories and the other tends to grab you by the throat and not let go until you finish the whole thing, we could name them "The Strokers & Chokers Hall of Fame"

Yes, but they are still chapters of a larger story, not the whole story.

 

[HeyAll]

I agree.

The Hall of Fame for each category hubris should be stand-alone stories. Chapters have an incredibly unfair advantage.

Hopefully we can keep this thread going and Laurel will take notice.

 

[legerdemer]

Ummm... and... huh?

Speaking of chapters... what's the point of the Novels and Novellas category versus series of chapters that are not part of that category? Seems like a difference without a distinction... or is it vice versa?

 

[JKendallDane]

I agree.

The Hall of Fame for each category hubris should be stand-alone stories. Chapters have an incredibly unfair advantage.

Hopefully we can keep this thread going and Laurel will take notice.

And so the "solution" would be to give an incredibly unfair advantage to stand alones with the HOF?

A dual HOF listing in each category solves the problem much better than an either/or choice. That's good for nothing but a giant, ongoing pissing match.

 

[RejectReality]

Speaking of chapters... what's the point of the Novels and Novellas category versus series of chapters that are not part of that category? Seems like a difference without a distinction... or is it vice versa?

No clue what the original intention was for the category, but it's become the "This is long and hits too many kinks to fit in any other category" category.

As to splitting the toplists, I'm waiting to see what they're rolling out since Manu said on New Year's that the infrastructure updates were complete and new/updated features would begin rolling out this year.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=63815207#post63815207

 

[sr71plt]

Speaking of chapters... what's the point of the Novels and Novellas category versus series of chapters that are not part of that category? Seems like a difference without a distinction... or is it vice versa?

Well, I have a use for it soon. I have a twelve-chapter bisexual (straight, gay male, cross-dressing, lesbian, bisexual) novella for the April Fools contest. Such bisexual stories aren't given a place at Literotica. To enter the contest, it needs to be in one chunk and, by theme, Novels and Novellas is the only place this one will fit--so it's fine there, I think and wouldn't fit anywhere else at Literotica.

Several years ago, I had a novel-length one to post to Literotica that also crossed basic category bounds, so I put it in Novels and Novellas in chapter chunks, and it's done just fine there--whereas it would have had to be scattered all over the category spectrum otherwise.

 

[sr71plt]

As to splitting the toplists, I'm waiting to see what they're rolling out since Manu said on New Year's that the infrastructure updates were complete and new/updated features would begin rolling out this year.

I do hope you aren't holding your breath on that one.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yes, but they are still chapters of a larger story, not the whole story.

I don't think it's always that straightforward.

Some multi-part works have a strong connecting arc. Take something like Lord of the Rings; it's clear that Fellowship of the Ring is not a complete story in its own, and the work isn't complete until the end of Return of the King. So it makes sense to rate LotR as a single work.

But others are much more weakly connected. Take something like Pratchett's Discworld series: each new book builds on the ones before, but you can read any single book and still feel you've had a complete story. Even more so with James Bond, or Hercule Poirot, or Banks' "Culture" series. You don't know whether you've reached the final installment until the author dies (sometimes not even then) and the quality varies within a series, so it makes much more sense there to rate each chunk individually.

Some chapter series on Literotica follow the LotR model; plenty don't. Granted, the current system doesn't work terribly well for the former, but I think a single-rating-per-series system would be significantly worse for the latter, and more complicated to implement.

Even when the author intends a series to be taken as a whole, people don't always read it that way. Chapter 13 of my multi-part story has more views and more votes than any of the previous four chapters, and it also has the best ratings out of the whole series. I have to conclude that quite a few people really are reading and rating that chapter as a stand-alone piece.*

In any case, the problem isn't just about multi-chapter stories. Pretty much all the same issues apply to long stories posted in one big chunk, and switching to averages wouldn't fix that.

*Makes no sense to me, because the plot of Chapter 13 is heavily dependent on the ones that go before. But apparently readers like it as a stand-alone. Go figure.

 

[oggbashan]

Speaking of chapters... what's the point of the Novels and Novellas category versus series of chapters that are not part of that category? Seems like a difference without a distinction... or is it vice versa?

If the chapters of your story would otherwise go in different categories, particularly sensitive ones such as Loving Wives, Incest and Taboo, then Novels and Novellas is the only suitable category.

 

[TxRad]

I don't think it's always that straightforward.

Some multi-part works have a strong connecting arc. Take something like Lord of the Rings; it's clear that Fellowship of the Ring is not a complete story in its own, and the work isn't complete until the end of Return of the King. So it makes sense to rate LotR as a single work.

But others are much more weakly connected. Take something like Pratchett's Discworld series: each new book builds on the ones before, but you can read any single book and still feel you've had a complete story. Even more so with James Bond, or Hercule Poirot, or Banks' "Culture" series. You don't know whether you've reached the final installment until the author dies (sometimes not even then) and the quality varies within a series, so it makes much more sense there to rate each chunk individually.

Some chapter series on Literotica follow the LotR model; plenty don't. Granted, the current system doesn't work terribly well for the former, but I think a single-rating-per-series system would be significantly worse for the latter, and more complicated to implement.

Even when the author intends a series to be taken as a whole, people don't always read it that way. Chapter 13 of my multi-part story has more views and more votes than any of the previous four chapters, and it also has the best ratings out of the whole series. I have to conclude that quite a few people really are reading and rating that chapter as a stand-alone piece.*

In any case, the problem isn't just about multi-chapter stories. Pretty much all the same issues apply to long stories posted in one big chunk, and switching to averages wouldn't fix that.

*Makes no sense to me, because the plot of Chapter 13 is heavily dependent on the ones that go before. But apparently readers like it as a stand-alone. Go figure.

You're kidding me right?

You're comparing novel length books to the 2 page and sometimes not even that stuff that passes for chapters here?

I love people who argue just for the fun of it.

Keep trying and maybe you can make orange juice out of that apple.

 

[RejectReality]

Thing is, if chapter stories are split off or handicapped, the next thing that's going to happen is stories with 5+ pages are going to bubble to the top, because they have much the same advantage going for them.

It would probably be better to split the toplists into long stories and short stories, with anything broken up into chapters counted as "long", even if it's three chapters at the 750 word minimum. ( Because trying to code to account for cumulative length of chapters would be an incredible pain in the ass, and thus prone to bugs )

Then it's a matter of what's "short". I'd say 3 Lit pages at the longest, which is a little over 10k words.

I choose pages over wordcount because I don't think Lit does any wordcount beyond Laurel checking for at least 750 at submission. So, pages is something that is ready to check with existing code.

Assuming wordcount doesn't roll out in an update, that is.

That solution does a lot to level the playing field for authors, and provides useful information to readers at the same time.

 

[lovecraft68]

To me there are two types of chapter stories.

The first is one that is a very long involved ongoing story and to qualify as that each chapter must not only contain erotica, but move the story forward plot wise if it does that I am fine with them as each tells another part of the story and people don't always want to post 30 lit page stories.

But the other type is the "endless sex" series. In other words nothing happens in the next chapter, but more sex and then more sex and more people...

I see a lot of these in incest, example

Chapter One...John seduces mom

Chapter two. John and mom in the pool

Chapter three...Mom takes it in the ass.

There is no story being told, its a series of sex scenes.

As far as advantage obviously chapter series have them which is why they are not allowed in themed contests

And why they should not be allowed in the monthly contests and that has been pointed out countless times by many people and the site...

Does not agree or does not care, take your pick.

But either of those reasons tell me that you won't see a what the OP is suggesting.

And it could be easy, you could have a "series hall of fame" and it can be from any category as long as its a minimum number of chapters.

Lit does have a "series" category you can click on the story list so give them their own top list.

The problem? All you would see on that top list would be non human between its high scoring average and many stories there are series.

Problem number two? There would still be something someone would find to complain about, there is no solution on any issue here that will please everyone.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'd like to add that before we create new top lists or new ways to categorize them...

How about they fix the three that are broken and have been for a long time?

Incest/Bdsm/Lesbian all have been non functional in different places for a long while now.

People seem to be frustrated their one shot story is playing second fiddle to chapter stories....

Its more frustrating for authors to know they should have stories in a top list but don't because the site refuses to fix anything.

So the authors who have been "locked in" at the top of the broken lists have been getting an unfair advantage over other authors in those categories because their stories will never be bumped from the top.

 

[lovecraft68]

You're kidding me right?

You're comparing novel length books to the 2 page and sometimes not even that stuff that passes for chapters here?

I love people who argue just for the fun of it.

Keep trying and maybe you can make orange juice out of that apple.

And you're one of them throwing your judgments and personal preferences around at everyone.

Go check out my SWB series and come back and tell me the average chapter length, then get back to me with your all knowing bullshit.

In the meantime....

The most important thing on this site for people is their writing and they have the right to write however they want.

one page stories ten page stories thirty 3k chapters, ten 20k chapters...whatever they want to do they will do and should be able to without someone constantly yammering about how they don't like that particular style...don't like, don't read.

Not everything here is about "glory" which is what many here seem to think the top lists represent.

I could go all day, but what it really comes down to is this forum-can't speak for the site in general, most don't post here-is full of one thing

Jealousy.

Everyone here is pissed that they think someone, somehow is getting away with something and its "not fair" everything from the H's should no longer exist, to this shouldn't be allowed, to this should be changed.

Know what would be nice?

If everyone here just shut the fuck up and started writing.

 

[DreamCloud]

If they lowered the net, I would be one hell of a basketball player.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

this is great idea. I feel the same way.

Feelings are mad sad glad afraid tired sleepy hungry horny sick etc. Agreement with an idea is a thought NOT a feeling. You must be a dumfuck liberal.

 

[lovecraft68]

If they lowered the net, I would be one hell of a basketball player.

Nice point.

What I see in all the complaining about top lists and the bitching about red H's and how they are never "deserved" is the same thought process that has driven some schools to no longer have ceremonies for honor students because it makes the lazy kids who didn't work as hard feel bad

Like I was told after losing my first tournament back when I was fourteen..."Don't like losing? Get better."

Now its...oh, you're a loser? Let us lower the bar for you.