Mental Illness

[gluttonne]

People often project what they do onto you. *hugs*

This. Cheaters, or those who would like to cheat, often assume the other party is just as they are. Of course, the Schizophrenia complicates matters, but whether she is cheating or not, this kind of double behavior standard is NOT conducive to a healthy or lasting relationship. I would try to approach the issue with as much compassion as possible, but in the end, only you can decide what you will or will not put up with.

 

[FurryFury]

My daugther is still doing reasonably well though I don't think the lessons I want her to be learning are getting through to her about money and finances. Still working on that.

I have a relative who is an almost retired lawyer working on legal papers too.

My son got past his panic attacks to go back into work, then was sick for one shift, then went back. Scary. His medication has be changed a tiny bit.

My mother is still a wreck. Her current solution is for me to spend more time with her, accept her as she is rather than how I want her to be and just love her, like she did with grandmother who she hated a good bit before "taking care of her".

Even if I didn't work a 40+ a week job I could not do that because my mother tries to kill me and my spirit every time I get with her. It's never pleasant. She seems to want to get inside my skin and use me as a puppet. I'd be the one who was suicidal if I spent a lot of time with her.

And her revisionist history of what happened with grandmother is total bullshit. They fought, screamed, called the cops on each other. Mother used grand for money, neglected and at least verbally abused her if not more. Only when she was dead did mother "love" her. I don't want to love anyone like that.

 

[Setanta84]

People often project what they do onto you. *hugs*

This. Cheaters, or those who would like to cheat, often assume the other party is just as they are. Of course, the Schizophrenia complicates matters, but whether she is cheating or not, this kind of double behavior standard is NOT conducive to a healthy or lasting relationship. I would try to approach the issue with as much compassion as possible, but in the end, only you can decide what you will or will not put up with.

At the point, the whole thing has kind of taken on the spirit of tragedy. We're not so much a couple anymore as people who are obsessed with each other--with the darker meaning of obsessed.

On my end, I'm just fucking confused.

She's had a rough time this year. But the evidence kind of overwhelmingly points to the conclusion that she was less than committed to the relationship when these things happened to her and that that lack of commitment probably played a hand in setting the stage for these things. All of which puts me in this confusing place where I don't know where my empathy for her ends and my sense of betrayal beings

In the middle of this, it also came out that people around here have strongly suspected her of being seriously mentally ill for about seven years, there are some unsavory things in her past related to that, and that cheating, lying, and manipulative behavior are things that she was often accused of by people she hurt during this period.

So, the question becomes does she do the things that hurt me because she is just batshit crazy and doesn't have a good grip on reality, does she just have a bad character and happen to be seriously mentally ill on top of it, or is it some weird place in between those two options.

The fact that she doesn't see to know what the fuck she wants also complicates things. She wants "space." She's "not ready for a relationship." But she still wants us to agree to not see or sleep with other people during this period, which I honestly find half crazy and half pathologically selfish. "You've put your entire life on hold for several months for me, things are seriously strained, and now I am not even sure if i want or can continue things--but don't you dare go anywhere while I figure that out."

The one thing we agree on these days is we're on a break from the relationship. We just have very, very different ideas about what that means.

 

[FurryFury]

Getting caught up in the whys can be compelling but honestly a relationship that doesn't work because a person is just going to hurt you over and over again speaks for itself. A break is a good idea. And it sounds like a permanent one might be in your best interests.

I know some of why my ex was a toxic asshole user but that didn't make the relationship work because he didn't want to change enough to work on changing.

At the point, the whole thing has kind of taken on the spirit of tragedy. We're not so much a couple anymore as people who are obsessed with each other--with the darker meaning of obsessed.

On my end, I'm just fucking confused.

She's had a rough time this year. But the evidence kind of overwhelmingly points to the conclusion that she was less than committed to the relationship when these things happened to her and that that lack of commitment probably played a hand in setting the stage for these things. All of which puts me in this confusing place where I don't know where my empathy for her ends and my sense of betrayal beings

In the middle of this, it also came out that people around here have strongly suspected her of being seriously mentally ill for about seven years, there are some unsavory things in her past related to that, and that cheating, lying, and manipulative behavior are things that she was often accused of by people she hurt during this period.

So, the question becomes does she do the things that hurt me because she is just batshit crazy and doesn't have a good grip on reality, does she just have a bad character and happen to be seriously mentally ill on top of it, or is it some weird place in between those two options.

The fact that she doesn't see to know what the fuck she wants also complicates things. She wants "space." She's "not ready for a relationship." But she still wants us to agree to not see or sleep with other people during this period, which I honestly find half crazy and half pathologically selfish. "You've put your entire life on hold for several months for me, things are seriously strained, and now I am not even sure if i want or can continue things--but don't you dare go anywhere while I figure that out."

The one thing we agree on these days is we're on a break from the relationship. We just have very, very different ideas about what that means.

 

[Keroin]

Came across this article on depression today and thought some of the folks here might be interested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/02/depression-infectious-dis_n_6172074.html

 

[desertslave]

Came across this article on depression today and thought some of the folks here might be interested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/02/depression-infectious-dis_n_6172074.html

I definitely agree, at least to a point. Living with a depressed person, especially one who hasn't been diagnosed and/or doesn't acknowledge their condition, can definitely affect their own outlook and general mood. My ex was a prime example. The difference was that I was well-aware that my mood changes and reactions weren't reasonably proportional to events that would send me into a downward spiral. I felt like an alien was in the middle of my synapses, doing weird shit to my interpretations and behaviors and knowing, absolutely, that this was not me and I was often reacting in a way that was basically downstream of whatever drama my ex was perpetrating.

One afternoon I watched a documentary on depression (the classic that features Mike Wallace from 60 Minutes, among others) and the lightbulb went off that this was him, and I was in the back-flash of his moods. He refused to believe it and took a much longer time to hit bottom and get help, but that was the day I decided that I still had a right and duty to save myself and protect our kids from the fallout.

It was not long after this that I met Master online. To this day I'm absolutely certain that he saved my life, simply by mirroring me and pointing out that some of the things going on simply weren't normal or safe (for me).

Master might be displeased with me for saying this, but we've both been doing the downward spiral tango of late. This time around we're both getting help and helping each other to work through it. He's saved me once again, and I'll be forever thankful.

 

[FurryFury]

I've tried probiotics with both of my adult kids who both have depression and anxiety among other issues. I've seen no affect on moods but my son tends to have stomach issues too and that has gotten better.

It would be great if they actually figured out something that causes depression and adjusted treatment to be more beneficial.

 

[BiBunny]

Came across this article on depression today and thought some of the folks here might be interested.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/02/depression-infectious-dis_n_6172074.html

I actually wouldn't doubt this at all.

I once read something about sickness behavior in humans and how it's not caused by the illness itself, but by (some sort of) processes in the brain that are meant to make recovering from the illness easier. Like, you're not tired when you have a cold because the cold made you tired or because your immune system used up all your energy fighting it, but because of [insert science-y thing here] that makes you stay in bed to limit expenditure of energy that could be used to...do other science-y things that make you get well faster.

(Sorry, I can't remember anything anymore.)

Anyway, it went on to say that a lot of what is considered sickness behavior in people is also quite reminiscent of some of the symptoms of depression: exhaustion, loss of appetite, leaden paralysis, etc.

So if depression--or some types of it--were caused by pathogens, or by some mechanism that falsely triggered the release of the chemicals that cause sickness behavior, or some combination of the two, I would not be at all surprised.

That probably made zero sense. I'm so sorry.

 

[Keroin]

That probably made zero sense. I'm so sorry.

It actually makes a ton of sense, BB.

On a related note, my one and only experience with depression happened after a severe flu. I'd had what I thought was the flu before but this one was full blown, coughing up blood, influenza. The real deal, so to speak. I was sick for weeks on end but when my physical symptoms finally subsided I still didn't feel better. I was lethargic, morose, I didn't want to go anywhere or do anything or talk to anyone. I called it a "funk" because I didn't know how else to explain it.

The funk hung around for several months before gradually lifting. A few years later I stumbled upon some information that explained depression can sometimes be a side effect of influenza. So, I don't doubt at all that there could be a viral connection.

 

[Setanta84]

To update my situation, we broke things off for good, I'm back to casual sex, and she's dating some unfortunate grad student in the midwest who, presumably, made the mistake I did and didn't Google her before dating her.

That lesson, I learned the hard way. Once things did get bad, I did Google her. Before putting me through the ringer, she apparently defrauded an independent music label, claimed she could play every instrument known to man, and would stage performances in public despite while very obviously not knowing how to play any instrument.

In the future, if I date somebody who I start to suspect has mental health problems and she basically throws a tantrum and denies she has ANY problems or baggage whatsoever, I'm running in the other direction.

 

[FurryFury]

Hard life lessons. *HUGS*

To update my situation, we broke things off for good, I'm back to casual sex, and she's dating some unfortunate grad student in the midwest who, presumably, made the mistake I did and didn't Google her before dating her.

That lesson, I learned the hard way. Once things did get bad, I did Google her. Before putting me through the ringer, she apparently defrauded an independent music label, claimed she could play every instrument known to man, and would stage performances in public despite while very obviously not knowing how to play any instrument.

In the future, if I date somebody who I start to suspect has mental health problems and she basically throws a tantrum and denies she has ANY problems or baggage whatsoever, I'm running in the other direction.

 

[Setanta84]

Hard life lessons. *HUGS*

Thanks.

The hard part here is that, now that I know EVERYTHING she told me about her sexuality and sexual history is a lie, I think she was a straight up sociopath.

Sociopaths always see life as a game to be won? Check. She actually explicitly used gaming language when telling me how she felt as the relationship was ending. She moved to sever things when she felt I was "winning."

Pathological liar? Check.

Moved the relationship fast? Check.

No empathy or remorse? Check. At the end, when she moved on to the next victim, I told her how much she hurt me. Her response? "I don't care."

Criminal past? Check.

And it goes on and on.

The hard part here is knowing that nothing was real. I didn't really know her. There was no real connection. No love. She just IDed me as a mark, presented what she thought I most wanted, tortured me for a year, and discarded me when I started calling her out and fighting back.

Everything I worked and suffered for this whole past year was for a lie. A waste. Fuck me.

So, with the last three love interests who were more than friends I happened to sleep with, we have one narcissist, one love-avoidant, and one sociopath. I need to take a break from seeing people. My judgment fucking sucks.

 

[BiBunny]

<snip>

So, with the last three love interests who were more than friends I happened to sleep with, we have one narcissist, one love-avoidant, and one sociopath. I need to take a break from seeing people. My judgment fucking sucks.

OH, GOD, ARE WE THE SAME PERSON?!?!

No, seriously, I know how you feel. I have a (terrible) taste for narcissists and sociopaths. I stopped dating for a good while after my (embarrassing) break with reality several years ago. I knew that I needed to get better and dealing with more people who were crazier than I was (am) was only going to make matters worse.

(Of course, now that I've come through the worst of it, it turns out I'm pretty aro, so that worked out well. I'd bet a good bit of someone else's money that that underlying tendency was the reason I had such awful relationships--I was dating people because I thought I was "supposed" to and was probably subconsciously selecting the world's worst candidates for it in order to sabotage something I didn't technically want, anyway.)

But that's beside the point.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that, yeah, stepping back from the relationship/dating thing for awhile is usually good for your head. Your judgment will improve, if for no other reason than that you'll come to enjoy the peace and quiet it brings, and therefore, eventually decide that drama queens aren't worth the trouble (and the noise) they bring.

Good luck!

 

[annikasfury]

I've got depression and extreme social anxiety. Also one of my therapists said I had a looking glass personality, but I don't know if that was just a turn of phrase. I am sort of a mimic, but over the years, I've mostly shaken that part of myself off. The anxiety is the worst because I don't like to leave my apartment, and I've been living in my new town for four years and I haven't made any friends here yet. I have a really hard time with phone calls, harder than face to face, it's weird I know, and it really interferes with necessities.

Anyway I saw this thread and thought that I'd posit that maybe my depression and anxiety is one of the reasons that I'm so submissive? It makes sense to me. When I was a teenager, I was really, really angry on top of everything else, and I was into pain in a serious way. As I started to level out, my pain tolerance went way down, which I also find interesting. Maybe if I ever kick the depression and anxiety, maybe I won't be as submissive. That would actually be a good thing, because it's not just a sex thing, it extends to all aspects of my life.

I found out as an adult that my bio dad was a violent, abusive man with mental problems that included depression. My step-dad was a mean, mean drunk. There are several addicts on my mom's side of the family. And I was sexually molested from the age of seven, not by family. So the deck was a little stacked, and I am really proud of how well I am doing now compared to fifteen years ago. I still get waves of black depression, but I just hunker down and wait it out, I know it will pass, and I don't hurt myself or drink till I pass out like I used to. A few days of marathons of my favorite tv shows and video games numbs me out, and then I'm over it.

 

[Muscadine_Eyes]

The one thing that she does that screams 'paranoid' is that she suffers from a kind of morbid jealousy, which she claims flows from knowing I was really into casual sex at some point. (Basically, any time I so much as return a 'hello' to a woman, she thinks I want to fuck her and constantly accuses me of cheating.)

The thing that makes that especially hard to take is she herself does things that actually reasonable raise the 'she may be cheating' red flag--goes on long distance or overnight trips with other men without telling me, is secretive to a weird degree for a person in a committed relationship, does these things while asking for "space," etc--and never has the reaction of wanting to reassure me when I bring these things up. She always responds with anger and then turning it around on me saying I have trust issues.

On top of the lying, the paranoia, and the strongly suspected cheating, she engages in a lot of other manipulative behaviors, denies this, and accuses me of being "controlling" when I point this kind of behavior out.

Sorry for taking several months to reply.

She could have bipolar disorder. My boyfriend had it and he was out all the time with the ladies. There seemed to be a social neediness component probably in the manic state. In my situation, he just didn't want me anymore. I was getting sick myself, so I couldn't do anything to stop him dragging me through the mud.

If you can't get her to get some help, I would say leave. Bipolar is an external illness, in my opinion. I'm sure people who have it feel bad for tearing up there families, but that doesn't mean a boyfriend should take it if there is no way to get help.

I wouldn't want to be left alone, but I am alone. I was left alone. It just worked out better for me that way.

I hope you find what is right for you.

ETA: Maybe she is more of a Sociopath. It seems like she was in control of things now that I've read your last post. Manipulative people are just manipulative. Bipolar doesn't cause that.

 

[Setanta84]

Well, she called again tonight, swearing up and down the guy who tipped me off was lying.

This time, I had questions.

How did he know you were in town that weekend if he's lying?

Answers: 1) I did text him but only to meet platonically. 2) He was pressuring me to hang out at his house. 3) He's a drug addict.

Her parents were in the background screaming for her to put the phone down.

Informed her I didn't believe her.

She told me "not being believed is like death to me." Then she reiterated I was the only person she slept with over the last year. Then she said "that will change tomorrow."

I'm pretty sure she's in the running for craziest person with whom I've had sex. And definitely is the holder of the title of craziest person I've dated.

 

[Never]

How do you feel about mental illness which, btw, seems rampant in Western Society today?

I am mentally ill, ergo that shit is awesome.

Seriously though, if a person won't be involved with someone who has a mental illness, they're probably ignorant or a touch too self-absorbed for my tastes.

 

[FurryFury]

Yes. That's pretty nutty. *HUGS*

Well, she called again tonight, swearing up and down the guy who tipped me off was lying.

This time, I had questions.

How did he know you were in town that weekend if he's lying?

Answers: 1) I did text him but only to meet platonically. 2) He was pressuring me to hang out at his house. 3) He's a drug addict.

Her parents were in the background screaming for her to put the phone down.

Informed her I didn't believe her.

She told me "not being believed is like death to me." Then she reiterated I was the only person she slept with over the last year. Then she said "that will change tomorrow."

I'm pretty sure she's in the running for craziest person with whom I've had sex. And definitely is the holder of the title of craziest person I've dated.

 

[FurryFury]

I can understand that. Self selecting a disqualification.

I am mentally ill, ergo that shit is awesome.

Seriously though, if a person won't be involved with someone who has a mental illness, they're probably ignorant or a touch too self-absorbed for my tastes.

 

[Setanta84]

Yes. That's pretty nutty. *HUGS*

Yeah, to give you an idea of HOW nutty, this is one of her final follow up emails quoted in full.

"IVE NEVER MET HIM, he kept wanting to cuddle, I never met him and did not want sex with he’s creepy ass. I never met him, You are blocked for ever and ever and ever. this was my favorite email but I am dumping it, fuck you. and for the last go damn time, I never slept with anyone besides you, but that will change tomorrow. "

She's literally switching between lies every goddamned sentence in much of this.

 

[FurryFury]

*HUGS* I understand. So sorry you are having to deal with this.

Yeah, to give you an idea of HOW nutty, this is one of her final follow up emails quoted in full.

"IVE NEVER MET HIM, he kept wanting to cuddle, I never met him and did not want sex with he’s creepy ass. I never met him, You are blocked for ever and ever and ever. this was my favorite email but I am dumping it, fuck you. and for the last go damn time, I never slept with anyone besides you, but that will change tomorrow. "

She's literally switching between lies every goddamned sentence in much of this.

 

[Keroin]

Seriously though, if a person won't be involved with someone who has a mental illness, they're probably ignorant or a touch too self-absorbed for my tastes.

Mmm. Good for you for knowing what you want, but unfair, IMO. I would not knowingly enter into a relationship with someone with a mental illness. Not because I'm ignorant or self-absorbed, but because I am highly self aware. I'm a healthy, functioning adult now because I've deliberately chosen not too involve myself with people I know I am not capable of dealing with. It's as unfair to them as it is to me.

Now, if my current husband developed a mental illness, that's a different story. We have years of history behind us, which I wouldn't throw out just because the going got rough. But starting from scratch? No. I know my limitations.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

.....

 

[BiBunny]

Mmm. Good for you for knowing what you want, but unfair, IMO. I would not knowingly enter into a relationship with someone with a mental illness. Not because I'm ignorant or self-absorbed, but because I am highly self aware. I'm a healthy, functioning adult now because I've deliberately chosen not too involve myself with people I know I am not capable of dealing with. It's as unfair to them as it is to me.

Now, if my current husband developed a mental illness, that's a different story. We have years of history behind us, which I wouldn't throw out just because the going got rough. But starting from scratch? No. I know my limitations.

This about 53576141988 times less cruel than getting into a relationship with a mentally ill person and then bailing when it becomes more than you want to deal with.

 

[FurryFury]

*hugs*

I was a chameleon for quite a while and it served a good purpose. I survived. When it became a hindrance I had to do some self examination and figure out who "I" really was rather than all the mirror images I knew others wanted me to be. This simple thing was difficult but really interesting and something I think most do sooner when they live alone, a step I missed and wish I hadn't. I'm a good mimic too which in my case is a fun, entertaining thing.

Are you on any meds for anxiety? My son has two very strong forms of anxiety and major depression. Phones calls are more difficult for him than face to face meetings too. The meds help with the anxieties but just a little. That little helps a lot. He still has to push through the anxiety but without the meds I don't know where he would be. Also the meds for depression work well, much better than the ones for anxiety.

He is not submissive however and not into pain.

My personal opinion on that is that while environment counts certain things are hard wired in. I believe our kink as far as D/s is. Most of the time I believe environment affects us in less hard etched in stone ways. Like water trying to erode the stone etchings. But extreme trauma can have bigger consequences. JMO.

This does NOT mean we have to be like our parents. Indeed, some things seem to skip a generation before reasserting in the next one after that.

Had I realized my mother and grandmother were literally insane or that my first husband was, and my own issues and the issues of my second husband I would not have had biological children. I would have adopted. I was a bit afraid of adoption due to issues but if all kids have issues and so many kids need homes why make your own. I adore my kids but watching them struggle so hard just makes me wish I could have saved them from all this.

I've got depression and extreme social anxiety. Also one of my therapists said I had a looking glass personality, but I don't know if that was just a turn of phrase. I am sort of a mimic, but over the years, I've mostly shaken that part of myself off. The anxiety is the worst because I don't like to leave my apartment, and I've been living in my new town for four years and I haven't made any friends here yet. I have a really hard time with phone calls, harder than face to face, it's weird I know, and it really interferes with necessities.

Anyway I saw this thread and thought that I'd posit that maybe my depression and anxiety is one of the reasons that I'm so submissive? It makes sense to me. When I was a teenager, I was really, really angry on top of everything else, and I was into pain in a serious way. As I started to level out, my pain tolerance went way down, which I also find interesting. Maybe if I ever kick the depression and anxiety, maybe I won't be as submissive. That would actually be a good thing, because it's not just a sex thing, it extends to all aspects of my life.

I found out as an adult that my bio dad was a violent, abusive man with mental problems that included depression. My step-dad was a mean, mean drunk. There are several addicts on my mom's side of the family. And I was sexually molested from the age of seven, not by family. So the deck was a little stacked, and I am really proud of how well I am doing now compared to fifteen years ago. I still get waves of black depression, but I just hunker down and wait it out, I know it will pass, and I don't hurt myself or drink till I pass out like I used to. A few days of marathons of my favorite tv shows and video games numbs me out, and then I'm over it.

You both know what you want and/or don't want. Knowing your limitations. Ruling out certain kinds of relationships is not a bad thing unless you are so limiting yourself that you form none.

Mmm. Good for you for knowing what you want, but unfair, IMO. I would not knowingly enter into a relationship with someone with a mental illness. Not because I'm ignorant or self-absorbed, but because I am highly self aware. I'm a healthy, functioning adult now because I've deliberately chosen not too involve myself with people I know I am not capable of dealing with. It's as unfair to them as it is to me.

Now, if my current husband developed a mental illness, that's a different story. We have years of history behind us, which I wouldn't throw out just because the going got rough. But starting from scratch? No. I know my limitations.

What happened? *hugs*

.....

Agreed. But sometimes you don't know someone is mentally ill when you start with them and sometimes it just can't work.

This about 53576141988 times less cruel than getting into a relationship with a mentally ill person and then bailing when it becomes more than you want to deal with.

I think what might work best is to get to know someone first, then slowly but not too slowly, open up. It's a tightrope walk for sure. Even on something like being veggie for decades I didn't tell people. I wanted them to get to know me before I trotted out my red flags. And yes, I do know that being veggie and being clinically, mentally ill are not the same thing, not even close. Though some asshats would say it is!

I was just thinking about starting a thread on an inter-related topic; the difficulty of being the walking red-flag and coping with the constant conflict of full disclosure, knowing that flying your various red flags pretty much kills %99 of your already rare opportunities, vs. the torture (for both parties) keeping your problems to yourself, forcing prospective partners to deal with your shit as it comes; pretty much dooming any relationship before it even starts. But hey, at least you get a *chance* to feel alive in the moment.

And then, when you DO fully disclose, and someone is somehow OK with that... WTF either they are not being honest with you about their intentions or they just have NO understanding of what you've just let on... so you're doomed anyway.

but then I remembered that the topic had been covered here a couple times... low and behold it's already come up again.

Great minds think alike?