Why do you care?

[policywank]

A big hang-up for a lot of guys seems to be how many men their wife had sex with before them. Assuming she is a loving and attentive wife and is faithful to her marital commitments......why does it matter?

 

[twister947]

It doesn't.
Next question.

 

[Justforthefun]

Men that are secure in their self don't care. If you can think for your self it's easy to see that being the one she chose to love and marry is enough. Too many people buy in to the notion that multiple partners for a man equals stud but for a woman that some how equals slut. Those of us that aren't sheep understand how pathetic that is a biased and moronic thought process.

 

[mterrence]

.....

 

[NiceNastyMann]

It absolutely is a biased and moronic thought process. Men should absolutely be held to the same standards that they expect women to adhere to. It disgusts me that so much of society is willing to give men a pass for being utter pigs. It only encourages bad behaviour. I doubt that this is a majority opinion around here.

Policywank, there are probably as many different answers for this question as there are men. In my case, I would imagine it has to do with insecurity. How much of that is societal, how much is idiosyncratic, and how much has to do with biology is anyone's guess.

Oh - fill in your own flavor of nasty word.

Humans are here to carry their genes forward. All this stuff about intelligence, wine, paintings - dross. Mere accident. Move along you are clogging the queue...

No different than any other form of sexual procreation. We just tend to wrap a lot off crap, tradition blah blah around it. End of the day - Finagles Law prevails. As far as the universe is concerned - once you have replaced yourself with kids - you are dross...

"Oh, but we are so much better than..." Yes. And then look at the dreary statistics of nasty things done to step children by both the new male and often times - depressingly also usually - their biological mother...

Ignore the hard wiring of the human animal as much as you want to - someday it will smack you in the face and then what? Bitch? Buy a candy bar? Complain it isn't 'fair'?

Should it matter? I tend to be in the camp that says it ought not to - but then I also understand that likely I'm in the minority in that opinion.

 

[policywank]

It absolutely is a biased and moronic thought process. Men should absolutely be held to the same standards that they expect women to adhere to. It disgusts me that so much of society is willing to give men a pass for being utter pigs. It only encourages bad behaviour. I doubt that this is a majority opinion around here.

Policywank, there are probably as many different answers for this question as there are men. In my case, I would imagine it has to do with insecurity. How much of that is societal, how much is idiosyncratic, and how much has to do with biology is anyone's guess.

Interesting perspective. I don't want men to be vilified for being sexually active so much as not wanting women to be vilified for it.

But I never gave a lot of thought to the differences in acceptable behaviour in this context. Not only do some men give themselves a free pass to put their dick anywhere they want but also to act like "pigs" in the process. Meanwhile even if a women is wonderful and sweet while she lets a man fuck her she is still the bad person that some future guy will reject for having had sex with a man.

 

[MatthewVett]

Wouldn't matter to me. What's the point of marrying a virgin, when they'll only be a virgin for one night, anyway? Isn't it better to marry someone who'll be a good spouse for years?

 

[coati]

A big hang-up for a lot of guys seems to be how many men their wife had sex with before them. Assuming she is a loving and attentive wife and is faithful to her marital commitments......why does it matter?

It matters to me, but for the opposite reason that your question infers. I've been in three LTRs, and the most recent one is the best, in large part because my partner fucked a significant number of guys before I came along. We never talk about listing or rating them. That is her business, but I know she has a lot of history.

Why does this matter to me? First, her extensive experience indicates that she likes having sex. Nothing is worse than getting with someone and finding out later that sex is not really that high on their priority list.

Second, her experience has taught her that some men are good partners and some aren't. Fortunately, she regards me as a good partner, and she really expresses her appreciation. If she did not have anyone to compare me with, she might take me for granted, like a previous partner did.

And third, her experience has taught her that humans are sexual animals. She does not suffer from a lofty or uptight view about sex. She is open to anything, sexually. Also, she is vocally expressive during sex, so we tend to come together. Early in our relationship, she wanted to see how I get off on my own.

She knows I have a lot of history, also, but she never asks about it.

 

[Blase]

Both innocent and experienced can be fun for different reasons.

I can't see myself rejecting a girl for being either one.

 

[gregy70]

My partner only had sex once ever with a stranger while she was drunk before she got with me.
I'd wished back then she had more experience & still do to this day 20 years later.

 

[policywank]

It matters to me, but for the opposite reason that your question infers. I've been in three LTRs, and the most recent one is the best, in large part because my partner fucked a significant number of guys before I came along. We never talk about listing or rating them. That is her business, but I know she has a lot of history.

Why does this matter to me? First, her extensive experience indicates that she likes having sex. Nothing is worse than getting with someone and finding out later that sex is not really that high on their priority list.

Second, her experience has taught her that some men are good partners and some aren't. Fortunately, she regards me as a good partner, and she really expresses her appreciation. If she did not have anyone to compare me with, she might take me for granted, like a previous partner did.

And third, her experience has taught her that humans are sexual animals. She does not suffer from a lofty or uptight view about sex. She is open to anything, sexually. Also, she is vocally expressive during sex, so we tend to come together. Early in our relationship, she wanted to see how I get off on my own.

She knows I have a lot of history, also, but she never asks about it.

This makes sense to me. You have focussed on what you do get with a woman that is sexually experienced.

The flip side is what you don't get with a woman who has limited sexual experience. My own strictly anecdotal observations of the many women I know who had limited sexual experience before marriage is that they tend to be those that have a low sex drive, limited sex appeal or a generally constrained or unhealthy attitude towards sex. To limit your marriage prospects to this group then complain about a sexless marriage seems rather dumb.

I don't mean to be disrespectful of the women who hold off or have limited sex before marriage due to strongly held beliefs. But seriously how many women have a religious (or other) objection to pre-marital sex but become absolutely open-minded and adventurous with their husbands. It happens for sure. And I am not trying to state absolutes only the fact that by restricting the pool of "eligible" women in this way men dramatically reduce their chances of marrying a woman with a sex positive attitude.

In an oppressive society where women are effectively forced to abstain there is actually a fighting chance that the woman you marry is really a vixen who can't wait to mount her husband AND he is up to the challenge. The odds are still somewhat long but the pool of "pure" women includes some truly beautiful and desirous women. In our more liberal society those women have already tried sex, perhaps frequently, because it is available and they see no reason not too. If those women are truly liberated the idea of saving themselves for a narrow-minded and insecure future husband is actually a bit of an affront to their independence.

I personally was very conscious of my future prospects before I was married, but I was of two minds that most guys don't seem to get. I didn't let myself get used or treated like a doormat - that would be disrespecting myself in which case how could I expect my future husband to respect me? And I am keenly aware of how guys treat each other - if my husband is going to meet someone I fucked before him I don't want the guy to be some sneering wanna-be alpha male asshole. At the same time I own my sexuality. I explored it with several men that were wonderful lovers and mature open-minded respectful partners. I man who can't wrap their minds around that is not ready to give unconditional love and accept me as I am.

Simply put......if you pick a wife based upon criteria that are the opposite of what you want in a sexual partner, don't be surprised when you don't have a great sex life.

 

[Rigger287]

I married a virgin 40 years ago - now I wish she's been a lot more experienced before we wed.

 

[HoldYouDown]

A big hang-up for a lot of guys seems to be how many men their wife had sex with before them. Assuming she is a loving and attentive wife and is faithful to her marital commitments......why does it matter?

policywank, when you start out by calling a personal preference a "hang-up," you're already painting it in a negative light and creating an easy straw man to tear down. Why does it matter to YOU what other people prefer? Looking around on these boards I see a lot of men with a variety of preferences; many like the fact that their women gained ample sexual experience before meeting them. Others would rather have a woman who'd been more chaste or even a virgin. Who cares? I know what I prefer, and it doesn't matter to me one lick what some other person wants. Everyone is different.

EDIT, all due respect to your opinion - not flaming you. Just sharing my perspective.

 

[KinkyGAGuy]

Honestly I don't care!

 

[midwestyankee]

policywank, when you start out by calling a personal preference a "hang-up," you're already painting it in a negative light and creating an easy straw man to tear down. Why does it matter to YOU what other people prefer? Looking around on these boards I see a lot of men with a variety of preferences; many like the fact that their women gained ample sexual experience before meeting them. Others would rather have a woman who'd been more chaste or even a virgin. Who cares? I know what I prefer, and it doesn't matter to me one lick what some other person wants. Everyone is different.

EDIT, all due respect to your opinion - not flaming you. Just sharing my perspective.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you seem to be saying that there's no point in discussing things simply because everyone has an opinion and because all opinions are equally valid, no discussion is needed.

Some people like to discuss things and find out how others think.

Perhaps the OP could have been stated in terms of deal-breakers rather than hang-up, but would that really have changed the tenor of the discussion? It doesn't seem like anyone else has been bothered by the terminology in the OP.

 

[CambsNortyM]

In praise of experienced women...

It matters to me, but for the opposite reason that your question infers. I've been in three LTRs, and the most recent one is the best, in large part because my partner fucked a significant number of guys before I came along. We never talk about listing or rating them. That is her business, but I know she has a lot of history.

Why does this matter to me? First, her extensive experience indicates that she likes having sex. Nothing is worse than getting with someone and finding out later that sex is not really that high on their priority list.

Second, her experience has taught her that some men are good partners and some aren't. Fortunately, she regards me as a good partner, and she really expresses her appreciation. If she did not have anyone to compare me with, she might take me for granted, like a previous partner did.

And third, her experience has taught her that humans are sexual animals. She does not suffer from a lofty or uptight view about sex. She is open to anything, sexually. Also, she is vocally expressive during sex, so we tend to come together. Early in our relationship, she wanted to see how I get off on my own.

She knows I have a lot of history, also, but she never asks about it.

Excellent response, and good to see that there are others in agreement with you.

When my lady and I got together, I already knew something of her history and 'reputation'.

I guess it's kinda flattering that she wants to stay with me.

 

[southern_gal]

From what I've seen, most of the guys on here would actually prefer that their wife was having sex with half the neighborhood.

 

[ekim22]

It matters to me that the # isn't too high. The same that it should matter to her that my # isn't too high.

Not too many people want to marry someone who went around tossing it at anyone that walked by....whether they're male or female.

 

[MatthewVett]

From what I've seen, most of the guys on here would actually prefer that their wife was having sex with half the neighborhood.

Well, it *is* Lit...

 

[bill3901]

experiance

I think the original poster hasn't looked around this board much...

 

[ADudeFromMA]

Some of us grew in the age when sex caused AIDS but HIV wasn't well understood and HPV caused cervical cancer but there was no vaccine. The mantra of the day was having sex with someone is the same as having sex with everyone they have ever had sex with. There are three other sex partners between us. All were long term relationships.

 

[policywank]

policywank, when you start out by calling a personal preference a "hang-up," you're already painting it in a negative light and creating an easy straw man to tear down. Why does it matter to YOU what other people prefer? Looking around on these boards I see a lot of men with a variety of preferences; many like the fact that their women gained ample sexual experience before meeting them. Others would rather have a woman who'd been more chaste or even a virgin. Who cares? I know what I prefer, and it doesn't matter to me one lick what some other person wants. Everyone is different.

EDIT, all due respect to your opinion - not flaming you. Just sharing my perspective.

I take your point about my choice of words. I'm sorry that I didn't use something more neutral like "deal breaker" as suggested by MWY. My point was to initiate a conversation which is the purpose of Lit and there is no reason that discussing personal preferences should be offside.

In this context I think of a "hang-up" as a point of psychological or emotional resistance that isn't grounded in reason. We all have them and are entitled to nurture, analyze, ignore or accept them as we please.

Why do I care? Some of it is just curiosity. But let's be realistic, this is not simply a harmless personal preference. This is the premise upon which a great deal of negativity, judgment and even violence against women is based. It is a fundamental roadblock in our understanding of inequality because it is a zone where many men simply can't accept equal treatment for women. And "personal preference" is frequently cover for hanging on to spurious reasons to keep treating women like shit to protect one's own ego.

Yes it was presumptuous of me to treat this as a "hang-up". But I am trying to understand why I should view it otherwise. Frankly the only rationale reason I have heard is based in religion - while I don't share their view a lot of people's faith is very clear on the point of sexual purity and pre-marital sex. And some non-religious people hold a similar philosophy and apply it equally to themselves. The other reasons I have heard over time seem more rooted in male insecurity or need for control with some other veneer that specifically and intentionally redirects that insecurity into an attack on women.

For instance:
- STD's. Yup I understand, but a simple test can determine if she has any and reduce the risk to zero. Next.
- She threw it at anybody who walked by. I don't know why that is inherently a bad thing if it was her choice but the fact is that isn't the way it happens. Attractive sexually interested women have massively more opportunity to engage in sexual activity than men. I have been much more selective with my partners than my husband or any his man whore friends. Yet I have still had more partners and fewer instance of morning after regret. Bluntly, I don't go chasing the last guy in the bar with my beer googles on - I pick from the guys I interact with when I am sober and rational and can establish clear boundaries and I still get more sex.
- She is physically or sexually damaged. Nonsense. Our pussies don't get stretched beyond repair. Maybe we will have been exposed to good sex and less likely to accept mediocre sex in the future but there is no physical damage from having sex unless the man is intentionally abusive.
- She is emotionally damaged. Again nonsense. Some women do engage in sexual activity for the wrong reasons or with the wrong guys and suffer emotional damage. But more than likely the man/men was the cause and a good man would be forgiving and supportive not judgemental.
- She doesn't respect herself because she "gave in" to so many men. It is a purely male construct that all women who have sex with a man are somehow submitting. There are lots of sexually active women fully in control of their destinies that men simply don't recognize as such because they don't present themselves as caricatures of the dumb bimbo.

Something that is purely a personal perspective wouldn't be a source of defensiveness and invective. Rational people don't get worked up when you ask them why they like chicken more than fish.

 

[SandraMustard]

You rock, girl. I perceive the misogynists (a word new to my vocabulary) are frothing at the mouth, wanting to attack your stance, but lacking the wherewithal to match your intelligence.

 

[SlutAddicted]

Men are competitive and insecure when it comes to sex. Some dinosaurs still think she should remain virginal while he fucks whomever he wants. But more of us just don't want to feel outdone. It is ok if she experience as long as it doesn't exceed our own.

But deep down we know that a woman can get sex more easily and frequently than us. They are more appealing and their prospective male partners more willing. They could easily crush us in the race to have the most sexual partners. That is very disconcerting. So we convince ourselves that they don't want it as much and if they do they are bad people.

 

[simplegirl]

This is definitely a subject that gives you a pause for thought. I understand what you're saying Policywank and I also find everyone's posts interesting also. I don't care that my SO wasn't a virgin when I met him and likewise for him. What *would* bother me is if he had tossed sex around indiscriminately.

Some may shoot me down for this, but I really sat and thought about why I would object to that. And the best word I could find was morals. If he has no morals regarding sex, or better yet we didn't share the same morals (regarding anything important in life, sex included), then it's very difficult to make a LTR work. And if he had no morals regarding sex before beginning a relationship with me, it would be hard for me to believe that he'd be willing to change his stripes. Much as I wouldn't want to enter a relationship with a serial cheater. I may be being unfair to that person, but history matters to a certain extent. It is my heart that I'm protecting, and as selfish as that sounds, it's my first priority.