Lower Oil Prices Are a Free-Market Victory

[BotanyBoy]

Ending the wars was a pretty exceptional idea.



Winning would have been better, but yeah...

12 years and still pouring money into a stagnating religious/civil/tribal war(s)....

How many more trillions and decades and thousands of lives you willing to put into that "win" that gets us exactly NOTHING ?

I'm guessing no amount of money, time or lives was too much for you

Stopping it with green investment, Keystone, and EPA madness which kicked in this week.

I know that evil EPA, making companies clean their shit up...horrible oppression.

Now how exactly has that been detrimental to the economy that is doing considerably better than when the republicans left it in the floor of a Conoco 'round back' shitter several years ago?

And didn't we ask across the board to start looking for energy alternatives to start weening our oil dependency on other nations? Pretty sure that was on the M'urican agenda.

Oh right, you're against that whole evil will of the american people bit, just another form of tyranny!! Gubbmint dew what eyer want or UNCAWNSTATEWSHINALl!!

LOL I crack me up.

Fuck cheap oil, there's more than one way to extract blood from a turnip.

We Democrats will have our revenge!

http://www.digitalfox.com/digitalfox/johnf-ingkerry/foilhat_files/foil5.jpg

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Hey, stupid.

We won the war in Iraq.

The Democrats turned it over to ISIS.

AND! It didn't cost us a dime or a life! BRILLIANT!

You had better crack you up because no one else is laughing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Hey, stupid.

We won the war in Iraq.

LMFAO...ohhh you poor dumb bitch, you been lied to....put the G.W. Bush down. We didn't win SHIT but a bunch of dead kids and a huge fucking bill, you idiot.

The Democrats turned it over to ISIS.

See that's another lie....the Democrats pulled us out of a complete clusterfucked failure of an occupation with no clear objective. No one gives a fuck about turning over to ISIS except hysterical dumb ass RW Americans who have been sold freedom fries so some contractor can get paid 500k to go jack off in Kuwait for 6 months.

AND! It didn't cost us a dime or a life! BRILLIANT!

Now you're in total denial about the cost of the Iraq war?? Skip our pills this morning eh?

You had better crack you up because no one else is laughing.

RAWR TOUGH!! SO SRSBZNZ!!! WE NEED MOAR WHAAAAAR!!! Right 4est? Gotta keep freedoming the shit out Iraqi's because FREEDUMB! right??

LOL fucking 4est is a war junkie.....for political circle jerk reasons no less.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality."
Ayn Rand

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

For the record, botanyboi (D) approves of ISIS.

 

[Ishmael]

What about producers other than the Saudis?

http://peakoilbarrel.com/world-crude-oil-production-geographical-area/

What about Eurasia? It seems the world without the US is only down about 2b barrels a day.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...gest-oil-producer-after-overtaking-saudi.html

I am still having trouble with the idea, but I am not rejecting it out of hand.

The graphs are nifty bro, but you're still left with the fact that since 2006 there has been an approx. 16% increase in world oil production AND an increase, approx. 2%, in world oil demand. Yet we're looking at an approx. price erosion of 50%. The markets alone do not explain the pricing.

The only explanation(s) are dumping ( to force marginal players out of the market) or a politically motivated price squeeze to severely damage certain foreign powers. My contention is that it is the latter. If the goal, as many on the left contend, was to shut down the fracking in the US the time to have done that would have been BEFORE the wells went into production because no one in going to invest risk capital in a venture that is going to lose money even if successful. The fact that the Saudi's, who are not stupid business people, waited until the wells were producing to make their move is a big tell to me.

Ishmael

 

[unregistered]

 

[BotanyBoy]

For the record, botanyboi (D) approves of ISIS.

For the record, I'm not a democrat nor do I approve of ISIS.

4est just likes to pretend I am because I don't obsess over them or think an occupation of Iraq is worth the cash/life outlay.

4est thinks the cash/lives were worth it....though for the record, he's to chicken shit to admit why because he will either sound like a total freedumb friez dip shit, christian whack job or welfare queen.

Because there was no bottom line....there never was a win to begin with, unless whacky Christian or Defense contractor.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The graphs are nifty bro, but you're still left with the fact that since 2006 there has been an approx. 16% increase in world oil production AND an increase, approx. 2%, in world oil demand. Yet we're looking at an approx. price erosion of 50%. The markets alone do not explain the pricing.

The only explanation(s) are dumping ( to force marginal players out of the market) or a politically motivated price squeeze to severely damage certain foreign powers. My contention is that it is the latter. If the goal, as many on the left contend, was to shut down the fracking in the US the time to have done that would have been BEFORE the wells went into production because no one in going to invest risk capital in a venture that is going to lose money even if successful. The fact that the Saudi's, who are not stupid business people, waited until the wells were producing to make their move is a big tell to me.

Ishmael

For the record, I'm not a democrat nor do I approve of ISIS.

4est just likes to pretend I am because I don't obsess over them or think an occupation of Iraq is worth the cash/life outlay.

4est thinks the cash/lives were worth it....though for the record, he's to chicken shit to admit why because he will either sound like a total freedumb friez dip shit, christian whack job or welfare queen.

Because there was no bottom line....there never was a win to begin with.

Still not convinced.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Still not convinced.

That's right.....claim Iraq was worth it all because we should have stayed to WIN right?? and give no explanation why... no idea what we win.

Run with your chin high, and tail tucked welfare queen.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/63c7786c-89bc-11e4-8daa-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz3NfXPetxB

Opec will not cut production even if the price of oil falls to $20 a barrel, the cartel’s de facto leader said, spelling out a dramatic policy shift that will have far-reaching implications for the global energy industry.

In an unusually frank interview, Ali al-Naimi, the Saudi oil minister, tore up Opec’s traditional strategy of keeping prices high by limiting oil output and replaced it with a new policy of defending the cartel’s market share at all costs.

“It is not in the interest of Opec producers to cut their production, whatever the price is,” he told the Middle East Economic Survey. “Whether it goes down to $20, $40, $50, $60, it is irrelevant.”

He said the world may never see $100 a barrel oil again.
The comments, from a man who is often described as the most influential figure in the energy industry, marked the first time that Mr Naimi has explained the strategy shift in detail.

They represent a “fundamental change” in Opec policy that is more far-reaching than any seen since the 1970s, said Jamie Webster, oil analyst at IHS Energy.

...

Mr Naimi said that if the kingdom reduced its production, “the price will go up and the Russians, the Brazilians, US shale oil producers will take my share”.

Market share sounds like it.

I mean, they could increase production, right? Would that not put the screws to the Persians?

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/63c7786c-89bc-11e4-8daa-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3NfXDnwFG

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That's right.....claim Iraq was worth it all because we should have stayed to WIN right?? and give no explanation why... no idea what we win.

Run with your chin high, and tail tucked welfare queen.

We won.

You, your team, threw it away just because you were against it all along and it might reflect positively on George W. Bush, a Republican. All those lives lost are now owned by the people who treated them as meaningless -- you. Their sacrifice was a free, independent Iraq. Your sacrifice was their lives because ISIS and the terrorists are no different that Iraqi women and children.

 

[Adre]

Still not convinced.

We know, you're not here to win arguments, but just for a chuckle.

Or as I've said before, the debate ain't over til AJ declares himself the winner.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We know, you're not here to win arguments, but just for a chuckle.

Or as I've said before, the debate ain't over til AJ declares himself the winner.

What happened to not going to participate in a discussion that has been posted on the wrong forum old man?

Go back to your balcony...

 

[Adre]

Economic.

 

[BotanyBoy]

We won.

WHAT MOTHER FUCKER? WHAT DID WE WIN????

How have the lives of American citizens been improved for the trillions of dollars and thousands of lives spent??

What did America get?? Not even oil.....we got NOTHING. Not a fucking thing, well I got a cool T shirt, a snazzy set of "Wuh eva wuh eva I do what I want!" licence plates and an eternal middle class income.

You, your team, threw it away just because you were against it all along and it might reflect positively on George W. Bush, a Republican.

No we threw it away because it's a pointless money pit of a RW welfare program that got America jack and shit. If we were getting something out of the whole "Occupy Iraq for fucking ever." bit I would be a lot moar on board....oil...economic slaves...some sort of natural resource....ANYTHING.

All those lives lost are now owned by the people who treated them as meaningless -- you.

How am I treating those lives as meaningless? By not buying into the Freedumb Fries franchise? LOL get fucking real.

Their sacrifice was a free, independent Iraq.

Ummm....newsflash high speed...that NEVER HAPPENED. NOT even in whackadoodle vettey fantasy land did that ever happen...there has never been a free, independent Iraq in my lifetime or yours. That shit hole has been served up on warlords, dictators and military occupation for like.....EVER.

Idiot.

Your sacrifice was their lives because ISIS and the terrorists are no different that Iraqi women and children.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/912748d8d8aa56e3dd15f1a0cabe05a4/tumblr_mtjw25JvhA1sj3oxho1_500.gif

Nope...they didn't want us there, they begged us to GTFO so the mighty religion of Islam could run shit.

We gave Iraq what they asked for.....

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We won.

Get over your outage.

In the long run, your Democrat allies overrun a lot of the place. You won too.

However, you aren't crying over the money we are spending now to fight your allies. If I were you, I'd be pissed as hell at Obama...

 

[BotanyBoy]

We won.

Get over your outage.

How so? What did we win?

You keep saying we won but fail to show what we got out of it....

In the long run, your Democrat allies overrun a lot of the place. You won too.

You think the religious fundamentalist conservatives, collectively known as ISIS are democrats, LMFAO.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/4/4a/Dolls_Laughing.gif
They are what happens to your team without secularism LOL you do get that right? ISIS is a bunch of ultra hardcore RW'ers champ....

However, you aren't crying over the money we are spending now to fight your allies. If I were you, I'd be pissed as hell at Obama...

I am pissed as hell at Obama.....where the fuck have you been? Oh off in fantasy land where you think you know something LOL

Now can you point to what we got out of our endeavors in Iraq or even point to what the goal was? Or are you just going to keep pointing at Freedumb Friez and screaming "WE WON, FREEDUMB!!" because you can't come up with anything approaching a reasonable answer to that without it being totally laughable or incriminating??

I'm guessing you keep talking out your ass about freedumb.....and calling ultra RW conservatives, democrats LOL god damn that was hysterical, thanks for that laugh.

 

[Busybody]

www.Google.com has the answers you seek....and I never said all the money, you're just making shit up and slandering my good name.

no

you didn't

you said

MOST of the money

we all know they give MONEY to all sides

the impression you made was they give TO REPOZ more

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

We won.

Saddam is dead.

A constitution was written a government assembled.

You Democrats didn't like that much so you collapsed it like you did Libya. You won!

Now, Obama is paying to put boots back on the ground, but you don't care about their lives or the cost, whatever it takes to satisfy your lust for war. Lives and treasure don't matter to you because you know, Obama. You just can't stay mad at him, so you lash out and scream at people about how they're webuwiccans...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Is your team going to win your war before you leave office?

The president’s budget proposal for fiscal 2016, which begins in October, is likely to include more spending for the Pentagon than originally expected because of the new battle against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/227969-budget-war-looms-for-obama-gop

 

[BotanyBoy]

We won.

Saddam is dead.

A constitution was written a government assembled.

It was a facade while we were occupying and it vanished the instant we left....they straight told us to fuck off, so we did and they got what they wanted.

But we didn't win a fucking thing....just a bunch of dead kids and a bill you RW'ers are doing all you can not to pay.

You Democrats didn't like that much so you collapsed it like you did Libya. You won!

Libya? LOL yea because that's a great comparison to Iraq

Now, Obama is paying to put boots back on the ground, but you don't care about their lives or the cost, whatever it takes to satisfy your lust for war. Lives and treasure don't matter to you because you know, Obama.

I do care, you're just full of shit and a total liar who can't read.

You just can't stay mad at him, so you lash out and scream at people about how they're webuwiccans...

Oh look more made up shit from the grand ol' liar....I'm guessing you still can't point to what we won/got out of Iraq or how it improved life here in America for Americans in anyway what so eva........shockingly GOP of you.

So to sum up the thread.

Eyer/4est: "NEED MOAR WHARRRRRRRRRR IN IRAQ n' MIDDLE EAST STUFF!!"

Me: "Why?"

Eyer/4est: "FREEDUMB!! YOU MUST BE A COMMIE ASKING SOMETHING THAT DUMB!"

Me: "What do we get out of this war?"

Eyer/4est: "FREEDUMB!!! N' CAWNSTETEWSHUNS FER FREEDUMB!! THAT'S IR@Q CUZ MURICUH WON!!"


Me: "That's never happened, ever."

Eyer/4est: "NUH HUHH CUZ SOCIALIZM IS EVOL N' FREEDUMB WE WON!!"

Right......I'm going to bed now. I'm guessing in 5 hrs you still don't have something resembling a half decent reason for us to be in that particular shit hole blowing money we don't have.

Vettey tried "strategical positioning" once...LOL maybe you can give that big ol' fail boat a whirl. LMFAO!!

 

[BotanyBoy]

Is your team going to win your war before you leave office?



http://thehill.com/policy/finance/227969-budget-war-looms-for-obama-gop

Fuck no they won't win...it's retarded, wage a PC war against a bunch of religious whack jobs with nothing to lose as they wage holy war...

It will just be more of this....just like all the previous OIF's.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/3349796/whac-a-mole-o.gif

FAIL.....oh sorry I didn't mean to trash talk your super important but totally worthless war. LOL

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Are you done with the Democrat talking points?

We all know you are a radical Socialist, all you ever do is defend your Democrat buddies.

Quit trying to defend yourself, we all know what you really think; you have no original thoughts that you do not get from them.

We all know why you love ISIS, they are killing Christians and we know you might hate Christians even more than you hate Libertarians, and by Libertarians, we know you mean Republicans who are the source of everything bad.

PS - Obama needs to retreat again; the Americans are within mortar range, or are you still all for the death of our troops?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That answers the 'con' part of the posited question.

Our increased domestic oil production, which came about in spite of the administration efforts, has reduced our dependence on foreign oil by 25%. And that is indeed a HUGE percentage. But looking at the bigger picture, the EU/US/Japan oil consumption as dropped by 5 million bbl/day over the past 4 years. BUT, the demand by the rest of the world has increased by 12 million bbl/day over the same period. A net increase in demand of 7 million bbl/day. Our increased domestic production would explain an easing of market prices, but can not explain the precipitous drop that we're observing.

Again, our domestic production set the stage that is allowing the Saudi's to execute this plan. And now that that train is in motion are we up in the locomotive with the engineer, or back in coach with the rest of the passengers?

Ishmael

I keep running the scenario over and over in my head (I know, a week off might be too long) and I'm thinking strategies. I don't know about the scenario you present, I don;t know if it could have been possibly pre-determined, but here's another thing that occurs to me with your observation, that I remember well, the lesson of the 70s for OPEC.

With most of the rest of the world in recession and our booming markets, I wonder how much of their "loss" is being hedged in Fed inflation. I cannot find anything at my fingertips, but I wonder what investment patterns they have been following since the beginning of the price drop.

Just a thought.