Which therapy to go for?

[shiny5437]

Apologies if this is bit of a long post! I'll try to minimise the vent.

So I've been single for 6 years now and when I say single I mean 100% zero action in all that time. I laugh it off and it has become bit of a joke with my friends but it really is starting to get me down. It makes me feel like a failure and that I'm missing out on a huge part of life. I could go on a downer about it (and indeed sometimes I do to the point where I feel it's affecting other parts of my life such as work) but that's not the point of this post.

On paper I think I have a lot going for me. I'm not going to be a ladies man but I believe I am well below the curve for what most guys my age have achieved in terms of forming romantic relationships. I'll admit I am on the introverted end of the scale but not cripplingly so. I've been on plenty of internet dates, my work has brought me into contact with many single women, and I've been on blind dates with friends of friends so it's not as if I'm devoid of opportunities.

I used to believe that the reason I struggled in those encounters was that I simply didn't know 'the rules of the game' but I've come to realise that that isn't the sole problem. As well as feeling lost, I feel those situations to be very stressful and my way of dealing with that pressure is to stick to familiar territory ie platonic conversation. Also, my way of dealing with stressful scenarios is to 'minimise' my emotions, which is very useful in other parts of my life but not so good when you're trying to chat someone up. So the end result is probably that I'm either giving off the wrong vibes, or coming across as a bit cool and distant.

So back to the reason for the thread. I think that I'm probably bit of an extreme case to the point where I need professional help to move past this block in my life. My question is, is whether anyone else has had experience of therapy and counselling and could recommend what sort to go for. Has anyone been in this situation themselves and found anything useful? I went with my ex to relationship counselling and that was really useful and I think I understand why things are as they are but not sure if it'd be useful given it's just me. I've been reading up on solution focussed brief therapy - has anyone tried that for anything?

Sorry for the long post - thanks for reading!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

If a female wants you she'll come get you but you gotta be what she wants. And what she wants is pretty standard stuff: A job, your own place, a car, a sense of humor, a cock that works, and don't be too weird or dangerous.

My wife found me at a laundromat. Our first date I took her to a better Italian restaurant, then a movie. She may not let you in her pants on the first date but she needs to know youre not queer, so act interested in her charms.

Like I say, IF SHE WANTS YOU SHE'LL COME FOR YOU. So be patient and stay busy till then. Don't act needy.

 

[simplegirl]

By the brief rundown that you gave, I would say it's not necessarily therapy but just to be aware of energy. What type of energy are you putting forth, and what type is being emitted by the people around you. Not just in relationships, but all around. I've heard many a time "gee I don't know what I'm doing wrong" when don't realize they complain a lot, or make inappropriate comments, sucking the energy of the people they're around. On a visceral level, you don't want to be around someone who does that, whether you're aware consciously or not. I'm not saying you do this, but be aware of what you're putting out there. Are you welcoming? closed off? self-absorbed? charming? interested? engaging? complaining? gossipping? poor me? etc... Just being aware of it, conscious of it, you may get an "ah ha" and flip that switch.

Changing your energy for yourself, will make you better in all aspects of your life, including family, jobs and personal relationships.

And don't be afraid to take a chance and ask a lady out, that you meet. If you only do so over the internet, for one, you get no real feedback or connection to the person. Chat someone up in real life, ask them out, in real life, establish a connection. If you get shot down, so what? The internet can be useful for some things, but for human interaction, it's terribly impersonal.

Best of luck.

 

[fire_breeze]

Apologies if this is bit of a long post! I'll try to minimise the vent.

So I've been single for 6 years now and when I say single I mean 100% zero action in all that time. I laugh it off and it has become bit of a joke with my friends but it really is starting to get me down. It makes me feel like a failure and that I'm missing out on a huge part of life. I could go on a downer about it (and indeed sometimes I do to the point where I feel it's affecting other parts of my life such as work) but that's not the point of this post.

On paper I think I have a lot going for me. I'm not going to be a ladies man but I believe I am well below the curve for what most guys my age have achieved in terms of forming romantic relationships. I'll admit I am on the introverted end of the scale but not cripplingly so. I've been on plenty of internet dates, my work has brought me into contact with many single women, and I've been on blind dates with friends of friends so it's not as if I'm devoid of opportunities.

I used to believe that the reason I struggled in those encounters was that I simply didn't know 'the rules of the game' but I've come to realise that that isn't the sole problem. As well as feeling lost, I feel those situations to be very stressful and my way of dealing with that pressure is to stick to familiar territory ie platonic conversation. Also, my way of dealing with stressful scenarios is to 'minimise' my emotions, which is very useful in other parts of my life but not so good when you're trying to chat someone up. So the end result is probably that I'm either giving off the wrong vibes, or coming across as a bit cool and distant.

So back to the reason for the thread. I think that I'm probably bit of an extreme case to the point where I need professional help to move past this block in my life. My question is, is whether anyone else has had experience of therapy and counselling and could recommend what sort to go for. Has anyone been in this situation themselves and found anything useful? I went with my ex to relationship counselling and that was really useful and I think I understand why things are as they are but not sure if it'd be useful given it's just me. I've been reading up on solution focussed brief therapy - has anyone tried that for anything?

Sorry for the long post - thanks for reading!

I haven't been in your exact position, but I have been sort of in your position, so I can kinda sorta relate. Take what you will, and ignore the rest.

Beginning of semi hijack:
There is something I found a bit worrisome and that I hope that you will address in the future, whether or not it is with a therapist or by yourself is that you believe that you "are well below the curve for what most guys [your] age have achieved in terms of forming romantic relationships". There is no curve -only the curve that you designate for yourself. If you constantly measure yourself over some sort of hypothetical curve, you will always be disappointed and stressed out. And honestly, who gives a flying rat's ass if you've had 15, 10, 7 or even two romantic relationships? And honestly? Ladies' man is not only so clichéd that it borders on the boring, but personally, it's a turn off.

Also, as an introvert myself, there is nothing wrong with being one! It really riles me up when being an extrovert is considered to be the ideal. It isn't. Being an intro-/extrovert is merely how you recharge and gain your energy: is being around a lot of people or is being around a select few/by yourself? You cannot help being an intro-/extrovert; you can help being shy or not pushing out your comfort zone and there is a world of difference (look at other famous introverts, such as JK Rowling, Albert Einstein, George Stephanopoulos, Hilary Clinton, Gwyneth Paltrow, David Letterman, et al. All not really shy but all very much introverts). On the other hand, shyness is something that is conditioned and can be trained out of, and that's where your therapist can help (if this is an actual problem).

Back to your question: I've consulted a therapist in getting ahead of a block that held me back. My case is different than yours, but one of the ways I've come to look at it is that therapist is more of a trainer than anything else. You go see a trainer at the gym if you're stuck in the rut and this is no different. And that's how I approached the whole situation, and how I looked for a therapist.

As for the therapy styles, CBT helped me a lot but I don't know if you actually have anxiety or shyness. Both can be crippling, both can be held back. CBT retrains your thought processes in overcoming a certain problem or block and it is tailored specifically to you and your needs.

I briefly tried SFBT and it wasn't for me, which is ironic as it is part of the humanistic therapy style and as a humanities academic -and a humanist- it should be right in my alley. I didn't want to, nor was I interested in, getting to the root of the problem. I knew the root. I am relatively self-aware and was able to trace where and how my blocks manifested. I did that on my own. I was able to visualise where I wanted to be, I just didn't know how to get there because of my current thinking. I needed help in getting over the hump and to explore other paths in reacting to the present situation and SFBT wasn't for me. Or the therapist was a little too holistic for me, especially with the miracle question and I just couldn't take it seriously. Like at all .

It might work for you. I found CBT to be much more beneficial and more suited to my style, which is analysing and approaching the situation consciously and organically. That said, I realise that not everyone is geared for such focussed work. It appealed to my introverted, and meticulous, nature. The only advice I can give you is don't set your heart on a particular style; it may be for you, it may not, and it may take several tries until you get a style, and a therapist, that you can work with.

Here is a link of various therapy styles that I used in my initial comparisons. I do suggest that you go to a good, reputable therapy clinic where there are various styles practiced and therefore you can be transferred to another therapist who practices to a style more suited to your needs.

Good luck

 

[Que]

If a female wants you she'll come get you but you gotta be what she wants. And what she wants is pretty standard stuff: A job, your own place, a car, a sense of humor, a cock that works, and don't be too weird or dangerous.

My wife found me at a laundromat. Our first date I took her to a better Italian restaurant, then a movie. She may not let you in her pants on the first date but she needs to know youre not queer, so act interested in her charms.

Like I say, IF SHE WANTS YOU SHE'LL COME FOR YOU. So be patient and stay busy till then. Don't act needy.

Put another way, if you are interested in a woman sexually, be forthright about that. Think about what that means to you about how you communicate that. Since that isn't a direct, "how are you doing, would you like to sleep with me?" you will have to learn to communicate that better non-verbally.

Different things work for different people but there is a huge difference in holding her gaze maybe a half second longer then I am guessing you do.

Pheromones don't seem to transmit very far so you need to be physically proximate. You don't have to invade her personal space, but my bet is you err to the cautious.

Touch is key. I have never gotten close to taking a woman home if I did not start out with some safe, non-sexual touching. It is part of the mating ritual and you need to gain her acceptance that you are allowed to connect with her literally or it is not happening.

A forearm, a shoulder, her back but not creepy back-rub out of nowhere. Back of the hand, something.

If you do nothing else, in your next interaction with a woman, touch her in some way. If you can dance at all, I'd try that.

When you try any of the above and it feels off (apart from your own hesitation, but it seems like it looks off to her) you have misread something and you need to look to a different woman.

I've come to realise that that isn't the sole problem. As well as feeling lost, I feel those situations to be very stressful and my way of dealing with that pressure is to stick to familiar territory ie platonic conversation.

Bingo. Platonic means friend. You talk to a woman as if you are only interested in being a friend, you are friend-zoned voluntarily. Most women you are going to be interested in have enough to sort out in their potential romantic lives to decide if a guy is a maybe, an interest, or just a friend. Do not make that decision for her. Leave it open with you as a candidate for partner.

I took my best friend's girlfriend's sister out twice in high school. I was sure she was not into me. I thought she was quite a catch but just not reachable. 35 years later I am talking to my friend's ex-girlfriend:

"What was with you and Ruthann?"

"what do you mean? I took her out a couple of times, she just didn:t seem that into me."

"Oh! She thought you were not into her!!"

I have refused to make that mistake again in the second half of my life. Ruthann is a dental hygienist these days, living with some guy in the middle of nowhere and looks about 1/2 my age.

The very first girl I got a phone number from when I was single again, and inexplicably th first girl I (awkwardly) kissed resulted in a friend-zone. I was too tentative, to unsure, too not ready.

The first "pick-up" was an odd relationship that I was not ready for but quite esteem building given that she was a hell of a girl and there was a significant age differential. Get out there and try it, mean it when you try it.

I have no idea what your own boundaries are on casual sex and such. Mine were ill-defined. I was initially looking for only a make-out, to find that oddly that is more intimate than sex for some. It doesn't have to escalate to sex to be worth doing, but it needs to be about the possibility of a physical connection even if it is just amorous hand-holding. You (I think) want a girlfriend or at least a girlfriend candidate, not a dinner companion for light conversation.

When I was married I sometimes needed to take single women clients out to dinner. Awkward. Don't make it like that. You are out with them because you are interested. Make sure that somehow they feel that.

Also, my way of dealing with stressful scenarios is to 'minimise' my emotions, which is very useful in other parts of my life but not so good when you're trying to chat someone up. So the end result is probably that I'm either giving off the wrong vibes, or coming across as a bit cool and distant.

Look, it is fine that your style is probably far less gregarious than mine. My gregarious nature has not always been as it is. If you need to clam up a little to regain your bearings it is fine. Pretend to yourself that you are being mysterious.

Re-engage as often as you are comfortable doing.

Do NOT fill the air with platonic chatter to prevent awkward pauses. Women are good at filling awkward pauses. Smile and let her.

 

[shiny5437]

Thanks for the replies folks - will write more when have time.

 

[shiny5437]

Thanks for the replies - sorry for the late reply. Life is what happening when you're making plans and all that.

Some good points which I've had chance to think about. I think the point about the vibe being given out is correct. I do think I give out the wrong vibes when in the specific situation eg 'a romantic' situation. Whilst specific advice on actions to take is useful and is what I've looked at before (pick up artistry and all that - yeah I know) I think I am self-aware enough to recognise that I need to look at what's behind those actions or lack of them. It's the old inner game stuff - (whether or not you approve of PUAs they at least have a knack for vocabulary). The vibes I reckon I give off are the unease that I am feeling or a remoteness or distance as I try to cope with this and finally a platonic vibe as I give up and repress whatever romantic interest I probably had in order to rescue the conversation. The thing to work on is that initial feeling of unease / situation specific anxiety. I have recently taken up partnered dancing mostly for fun, broaden my social circle, and get some sort of experience of interacting with women. There is that whole cliche of dancing being similar to romancing and even though I know there is no sexual element in the class or the dance it does push my anxiety buttons to some degree.

I guess I identify as incel which I am reluctant to do given the widespread social ineptitude, misogyny, and keyboard onanism which seems to accompany the various blogs and forums I've read. I am introvert but that doesn't stop me 'kicking ass'in other aspects of my life and is indeed a source of strength at times. Unlike this post I am not this self-absorbed in my conversations!

Thank you fire_breeze for your concern, it is appreciated, but I don't worry so much about my lack of experience in comparison with other guys. I guess because I've always had to build my self-esteem around other things it's not been an issue to me.

Finally, and actually I guess the most relevant. Thanks for the insight into the therapy options, fire_breeze. I was interested to hear your experience of SFBT. Like you I don't feel the need to massively explore the back story as I feel I've done enough of that before. Maybe SFBT might be too 'brief'. From your post it sounds like we share a very analytical thinking style and it sounds like maybe CBT might be something worth considering.

Thanks for all your responses folks.!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Put another way, if you are interested in a woman sexually, be forthright about that. Think about what that means to you about how you communicate that. Since that isn't a direct, "how are you doing, would you like to sleep with me?" you will have to learn to communicate that better non-verbally.

Different things work for different people but there is a huge difference in holding her gaze maybe a half second longer then I am guessing you do.

Pheromones don't seem to transmit very far so you need to be physically proximate. You don't have to invade her personal space, but my bet is you err to the cautious.

Touch is key. I have never gotten close to taking a woman home if I did not start out with some safe, non-sexual touching. It is part of the mating ritual and you need to gain her acceptance that you are allowed to connect with her literally or it is not happening.

A forearm, a shoulder, her back but not creepy back-rub out of nowhere. Back of the hand, something.

If you do nothing else, in your next interaction with a woman, touch her in some way. If you can dance at all, I'd try that.

When you try any of the above and it feels off (apart from your own hesitation, but it seems like it looks off to her) you have misread something and you need to look to a different woman.



Bingo. Platonic means friend. You talk to a woman as if you are only interested in being a friend, you are friend-zoned voluntarily. Most women you are going to be interested in have enough to sort out in their potential romantic lives to decide if a guy is a maybe, an interest, or just a friend. Do not make that decision for her. Leave it open with you as a candidate for partner.

I took my best friend's girlfriend's sister out twice in high school. I was sure she was not into me. I thought she was quite a catch but just not reachable. 35 years later I am talking to my friend's ex-girlfriend:



I have refused to make that mistake again in the second half of my life. Ruthann is a dental hygienist these days, living with some guy in the middle of nowhere and looks about 1/2 my age.

The very first girl I got a phone number from when I was single again, and inexplicably th first girl I (awkwardly) kissed resulted in a friend-zone. I was too tentative, to unsure, too not ready.

The first "pick-up" was an odd relationship that I was not ready for but quite esteem building given that she was a hell of a girl and there was a significant age differential. Get out there and try it, mean it when you try it.

I have no idea what your own boundaries are on casual sex and such. Mine were ill-defined. I was initially looking for only a make-out, to find that oddly that is more intimate than sex for some. It doesn't have to escalate to sex to be worth doing, but it needs to be about the possibility of a physical connection even if it is just amorous hand-holding. You (I think) want a girlfriend or at least a girlfriend candidate, not a dinner companion for light conversation.

When I was married I sometimes needed to take single women clients out to dinner. Awkward. Don't make it like that. You are out with them because you are interested. Make sure that somehow they feel that.



Look, it is fine that your style is probably far less gregarious than mine. My gregarious nature has not always been as it is. If you need to clam up a little to regain your bearings it is fine. Pretend to yourself that you are being mysterious.

Re-engage as often as you are comfortable doing.

Do NOT fill the air with platonic chatter to prevent awkward pauses. Women are good at filling awkward pauses. Smile and let her.

Youll be amazed at how many females will have sex with you if you ask them. I include total strangers. I scored with women who came to the door, wrong phone number calls, guests, classmates, professors, clients, etc. If theyre interested they will.

 

[shiny5437]

Youll be amazed at how many females will have sex with you if you ask them. I include total strangers. I scored with women who came to the door, wrong phone number calls, guests, classmates, professors, clients, etc. If theyre interested they will.

I don't disagree but you've kinda missed my point.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't disagree but you've kinda missed my point.

I responded to QUERY, dear. Its not entirely about you.

 

[Que]

Youll be amazed at how many females will have sex with you if you ask them. I include total strangers. I scored with women who came to the door, wrong phone number calls, guests, classmates, professors, clients, etc. If theyre interested they will.

I saw a clip of a guy straight out proposition 100 women for sex. Most of course turned him down, but few were offended.

Inspired, I went apocalyptic my next visit to the big city. Propositioning both waitresses that were handy. Both, turned me down, but one doesn't seem to bear any animus since, and the other playfully punches my arm whenever she sees me. Obviously, she wants me, but she had her chance.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I saw a clip of a guy straight out proposition 100 women for sex. Most of course turned him down, but few were offended.

Inspired, I went apocalyptic my next visit to the big city. Propositioning both waitresses that were handy. Both, turned me down, but one doesn't seem to bear any animus since, and the other playfully punches my arm whenever she sees me. Obviously, she wants me, but she had her chance.

Very few women are offended with straight-out propositions, what offends women are the beggars and whiners wanting pity sex. I told one mom, MY DAD SAYS I'M DATING THE WRONG GAL IN THIS HOUSEHOLD. A few years ago I spoke to my old girlfriend who said, I DONT KNOW WHY MY MOM LIKED YOU SO MUCH.

 

[SweetErika]

Shiny, have you ever investigated the possibility of having an Autism Spectrum Disorder, and perhaps more specifically, Asperger's/High Functioning Autism?

I mention this because your self-characterization sounds suspiciously like an adult version of my son, and many other folks with ASD and similar neurological issues I know personally and have read about. I'm far from an expert, and clearly it's impossible to get a full picture from what you've written here, but it might be worth looking into because it may help you find some more fruitful strategies, find the right therapist and other resources, and hone your self-esteem and social skills.

Other than that, I agree with Breezy, and my experience has also been that CBT is a very effective form of therapy to address negative thought patterns, feelings, behaviors and self-esteem issues. Well, that is if you find the right therapist and you're willing to do the work that goes with it!

Best of luck to you in overcoming your challenges, and I hope you'll let us know how it goes for you!