Could this happen in the US?

[RedAllan]

Since the fall of the communist nations in Europe we have seen the emergence of independent nations from the former eastern European states.

Could it happen in the US that various states could withdraw from the union and declare themselves to be an independent country?

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Since the fall of the communist nations in Europe we have seen the emergence of independent nations from the former eastern European states.

Could it happen in the US that various states could withdraw from the union and declare themselves to be an independent country?

That could never happen...again.

 

[patient1]

Since the fall of the communist nations in Europe we have seen the emergence of independent nations from the former eastern European states.

Could it happen in the US that various states could withdraw from the union and declare themselves to be an independent country?

It happened once before with disastrous consequences. I think it unlikely in my lifetime.

 

[RedAllan]

I wasn't thinking of the North/South civil war divide, but rather, for example, California saying we want to be an independent nation/country has recognized by the UN.

 

[The Greek]

Not in our lifetime. In future generations, yes, particularly amongst the southern border states

 

[unregistered]

 

[pointless]

i fucking wish., but it aint happening. even if it did we'd likely do it in the dumbest way possible so fuck it. still, it'd be nice to cut away some of the more idiotically conservative states and tell 'em to go fuck themselves, but it'd be easier to just move, really.

also, most of our states would make shitty countries. if we broke up we'd be fools to break up into 50 separate pieces.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

I wasn't thinking of the North/South civil war divide, but rather, for example, California saying we want to be an independent nation/country has recognized by the UN.

You asked if it could happen. It has happened. Did some idiot share some ridiculous Facebook article today or something? This is the second divide up the old USA thread this afternoon?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I expect it to happen. Our Civil War was really about the Blue States bleeding the Red States of taxes to pay for....immigrants from Ireland. The other major issue was the location of the Transcontinental Railroad and land grants to the railroads to stimulate Libs moving to the territories to upset the political balance. Same quarrels as now.

 

[pointless]

yes, the transcontinental railroad is still very contentious issue here in the mid-19th century.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

yes, the transcontinental railroad is still very contentious issue here in the mid-19th century.

As is high speed rail.

 

[pointless]

As is high speed rail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8rR7E6NfY4

 

[oggbashan]

Some of the former communist states have RE-emerged as independent states.

Yugoslavia was a 20th Century creation. Serbia and Croatia were separate states.

Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire but the Czechs and the Slovaks considered themselves different.

Germany is a federation of states, not a single unified state. Bavaria is proud of its difference.

Poland used to be divided between Prussia, Russia and Austria-Hungary but had a proud history as an independent nation.

The Baltic States - Latvia etc were independent once and are again.

It is not countries breaking up, but resuming their former identities.

**

US states have significantly more powers than parts of EU countries. The Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland parliaments have less powers than a US state's legislature.

US federal government has fewer responsibilities than the UK Government in Westminster.

In any large organisation there is conflict between the headquarters and the regional offices. It is the same in governments. Some tension is helpful to clarify the extent of each part's responsibility, but conflict is damaging.

 

[FGB]

On good whopper of an earthquake and we will not be worried with the "Left Coast" any longer...just a matter of time.

 

[possum123]

The U.S. does not have to worry about separation.
Another country will buy up all of it.
There are several right now that own quite a bit of the U.S.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

On good whopper of an earthquake and we will not be worried with the "Left Coast" any longer...just a matter of time.

~lol~

 

[Hypoxia]

Quite a few SciFi and alt.history books have dealt with possible breakups of the USA and the events that would lead to such. My take is that no, there could be no breakup IN THE PRESENT PARADIGM. States can't just secede willy-nilly. BUT if there's a MAJOR shake-up, like nuclear war, global economic collapse, meteor strike, etc -- something that destroys central authority and dissolves The Ties That Bind -- it's easy to foresee realignments.

Such realignments will not be fun, soft, easy, clean. We're talking mega-deaths here, folks, and even genocides. Those who don't like the current social-political order and who fancy secession either don't realize or don't care about the human damage. If you want models of what'll be, look at post-WWII events: expulsions of Germans from Soviet-occupied eastern Europe; Indo-Pakistani partition; Palestinian refugee flow when Arab armies attacked nascent Israel; that sort of shit.

All this is much easier to read and write about than to suffer through. Some wishes should NOT come true.

 

[pointless]

Some of the former communist states have RE-emerged as independent states.

Yugoslavia was a 20th Century creation. Serbia and Croatia were separate states.

Czechoslovakia was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire but the Czechs and the Slovaks considered themselves different.

Germany is a federation of states, not a single unified state. Bavaria is proud of its difference.

Poland used to be divided between Prussia, Russia and Austria-Hungary but had a proud history as an independent nation.

The Baltic States - Latvia etc were independent once and are again.

It is not countries breaking up, but resuming their former identities.

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Did you guess which thing was not like the others?
Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong?
If you guessed this one is not like the others,
Then you're absolutely...right!

 

[Mr Noone]

I wasn't thinking of the North/South civil war divide, but rather, for example, California saying we want to be an independent nation/country has recognized by the UN.

Sure, California has a greater population than Canada a bigger GDP. Politically coastal California, Oregon and Washington state are fairly hegemonous and liberal, though their interiors are more conservative. They'd make a very successful independent country. And California was briefly an independent republic in the 1840s. Though there wasn't any supranational Organisation to recognize them.

 

[pointless]

Sure, California has a greater population than Canada a bigger GDP. Politically coastal California, Oregon and Washington state are fairly hegemonous and liberal, though their interiors are more conservative. They'd make a very successful independent country. And California was briefly an independent republic in the 1840s. Though there wasn't any supranational Organisation to recognize them.

the cascadians would disagree with you.

 

[Mr Noone]

the cascadians would disagree with you.

Which part?

And who?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I cannot even find Cascadia on the map.



Is it in upstate New York? Close to Buffalo?

 

[pointless]

it's some silly "independence movement" in the northwest that thinks (not completely without reason) that washington, oregon and northern california should breakaway from the us and form a country with british columbia. why? because culturally they're more similiar to each other than they are to the rest of the us, canada and southern california. so, basically, you're close, but fuck los angeles and all that nonsense and give the fuckers vancouver.

 

[Mr Noone]

it's some silly "independence movement" in the northwest that thinks (not completely without reason) that washington, oregon and northern california should breakaway from the us and form a country with british columbia. why? because culturally they're more similiar to each other than they are to the rest of the us, canada and southern california. so, basically, you're close, but fuck los angeles and all that nonsense and give the fuckers vancouver.

Ah. I guess that makes some kind of sense.

Like I could see a "New England" made up of the six New England states plus the Canadian Maritimes. Except Fairfield Co Connecticut; that's New York.

 

[pointless]

I cannot even find Cascadia on the map.



Is it in upstate New York? Close to Buffalo?

try googling it.

or, you know, realize that it gets its name from the cascade mountains.