My dog needs a $9,000 operation. What would you do?

[Laurel]

this is aimed at humans, but it's still worth reading...

True story: someone very close to be squashed a disc in his back while lifting something heavy and sneezing. He was in excruciating pain. First doc gave him cortisone shots into his spine and told him the only fix was to fuse the vertebrae. Luckily, he got a second opinion from another doc - who told him that 1) spinal fusion surgery was risky and unnecessary, and 2) if he could wait it out, once the material from inside the disc leaked out, the pain would for the most part stop. He'd have less flexibility, but much more than if he opted for fusion surgery. And turns out that Doc #2 was right. So always get a second opinion!

 

[dolf]

True story: someone very close to be squashed a disc in his back while lifting something heavy and sneezing. He was in excruciating pain. First doc gave him cortisone shots into his spine and told him the only fix was to fuse the vertebrae. Luckily, he got a second opinion from another doc - who told him that 1) spinal fusion surgery was risky and unnecessary, and 2) if he could wait it out, once the material from inside the disc leaked out, the pain would for the most part stop. He'd have less flexibility, but much more than if he opted for fusion surgery. And turns out that Doc #2 was right. So always get a second opinion!

truth. and always be wary of those advising the most expensive option if they stand to make a profit.

 

[Laurel]

you appear to have not read what I actually wrote.

Uh, I did. You said:

If we love them (really love them) we don't choose what we think they want (which is likely enough treats to turn them into walking lard). If we love them we choose what is best for them.

What we feel is "best" for them is based in our own opinions and feelings. You may feel it is "best" for them to be "put out of their misery". You may feel it is "best" to "let them choose when to die". This isn't "Should I feed my dog fried chicken every day?" This is "At what point should I put my pet to sleep to maximize life and minimize suffering?" And I'm saying that without knowing exactly how much suffering your pet is experiencing, how can an outside human know what's "best"?

You're acting like there is an objective, easily chosen "best" - like picking the healthiest dog food. That isn't always the case. It's completely subjective most of the time.

 

[Laurel]

truth. and always be wary of those advising the most expensive option if they stand to make a profit.

THIS.

 

[pink]

I just lost my Monster kitty. He died in my arms last Thursday. I am still not over it. I am so down. Watching him go downhill over his last 3 days was heartbreaking.


As painful as it was to lose my baby boy, Sweetie, $9000 is way too much money. I know you want to keep your dog with you. Do what you need to but that is way too much money, imo.

 

[Skiddles2014]

Keeping any animal alive when it is in pain is selfish and a straight up dick move.

 

[dolf]

Uh, I did. You said:

I meant the other bit.

 

[Wrong Element]

Fromthe veterinary world - both large and small animal:

I don't know if anyone has said this or not, but your interpretation of what constitutes "pain" and what your dog is experiencing is likely quite different. Unless you have given him a sedative to keep him immobile, the fact that he is doing so says a LOT about his pain levels.

At 7, for a large breed, you are nearing the high end of his life expectancy as is.

Without having the money at your disposal, you decision IMHO has been made for you. I would rather see the money invested in another animal needing such loving care and a good home as you have provided for your old friend.

Sometimes Mother Nature gets it right more than we ever would and we need to follow her direction. Your dog can't make the decision to go off on his own and succumb to that very brutal Nature, but I think if you put the signs together, he's telling you he would. It is our duty as their guardians to pay attention to those signs.

My condolences and I hope you can make a decision that you can be at peace with.

Good response. There's no "right" or "wrong" answer. But I also noted the claim that with the surgery, the dog "could" live to the age of 12. That would be on the old side for a German Shepherd, even for one that hadn't shown signs of breaking down. If the animal is just plain aging, then you have to weigh the desire to spend more time with him with the responsibility to make some hard calls and not extend the dying process.

This thread is making me howl in incredulous delight.

A pseudo-philosophical debate whether a pet dog's health is worth spending $9K to address...

...among a gaggle of bozos who proclaim that conceived human life isn't human at all and can be aborted at will for $500 or less a pop.

I naturally socialize with, care for, doctor, feed, and entertain a herd of wild animals who happen to routinely come my way, from feral cats to wildcats, from roaming dogs to coyotes, from bunnies to burros, from free range horses and longhorns to birds of prey; interacting with that wild kingdom much more than with my fellow man, it's naturally easy to "feel" love for almost all of them...

...but not one of their lives or welfare are as valuable as the life of a single human being.

So, keep on going with your a pet is worth saving at any price while maintaining some human life isn't worth saving at all...

...may all your "pets" contract rabies, then viciously bite you numerous times before ripping out your human-hating hearts and feasting upon their blackness.

Shalom.

Just FYI, the coyotes think you're an asshole too.

 

[dolf]

And none of us really know if and when our animals want to die.

yes we do. never. animals don't reason, therefore they don't think that death would be a release. and instinct will always be towards survival. that's why we make the choice for them.

we know when they would choose death.

 

[eyer]

Just FYI, the coyotes think you're an asshole too.

I apologize...

...I didn't mean to infer anything about the abortions you've paid for in your lifetime so far, killa.

Forgive me?

 

[Laurel]

we know when they would choose death.

Okay.

 

[Laurel]

...but not one of their lives or welfare are as valuable as the life of a single human being.

So, keep on going with your a pet is worth saving at any price while maintaining some human life isn't worth saving at all...

Pretty sure that no one on this thread said they'd put an animal's welfare above a human's - and pretty sure that several people (myself included) specifically said they put humans' health above their animals'. Also pretty sure that you have no idea about most of our opinions on life etc. But don't let that stop you from tearing the stuffing out of that straw man.

 

[kbate]

Pretty sure that no one on this thread said they'd put an animal's welfare above a human's - and pretty sure that several people (myself included) specifically said they put humans' health above their animals'. Also pretty sure that you have no idea about most of our opinions on life etc. But don't let that stop you from tearing the stuffing out of that straw man. :rse: se: :hart:

You run an erotic literature site, your obvious and blatant moral inadequacies disqualify you from going after one as pure of motive and heart as eyer.

 

[butters]

You run an erotic literature site, your obvious and blatant moral inadequacies disqualify you from going after one as pure of motive and heart as eyer.

*applauds the dead-pan delivery*

 

[butters]

haze, only you can make the decision and get as much information as possible first. once you decide, having weighed up everything - especially the financial aspect on other members of your family (children esp) - commit to it and don't look back in guilt.

from a position lacking all information, i'm agreeing with dolf, but it's not my call to make.
the point about insurance for future pets is an essential one in today's age, and one i learned to my own cost but due to the ex's neglect.

 

[doowdniw]

If you are considering putting him down because surgery is financially off the table, I would urge you to consider giving him a little more time to see if cortisone and steroids can help.

The reason I say that is because of a personal experience. I had a Dalmatian blow out a disc when he was about 7 years old. He weighed about 65 pounds, and had been in excellent health. He loved to go for walks and run through the park. He had also loved to play ball, and injured himself jumping over planter boxes to get to it. It was so bad, that in the time it took to drive him to the vet, he had deteriorated so much that he could hardly walk. The vet examined him and and concluded the problem was a blown disk up between the shoulder blades. She said for about $1,000 there was a place in the city that would perform an MRI, but it would just confirm what she already knew. I asked if I should just put him down. She suggested waiting to see if the steroids helped. I took him home and my wife helped me carry him into the house. By this point he was completely immobile. We hand fed him, and put the water bowl where he could lap at it from the side of his mouth while I held his head up. My wife and I would carry him on a blanket out into the back yard and position him so that he could take care of his business and then carry him back inside, back into his bed. He was basically a quadriplegic, and this went on for several weeks. It was in the spring and the weather warmed up and we began taking him out and just letting him lay in the sunshine. He favored one side so much that despite our best efforts, he developed a bed sore on one shoulder that went clear to the bone. At that point, I resolved that putting him down was the only option. He had been through thick and thin with me and I realized that what I had been doing was probably as much for me as it was for him. As painful as it was for me, his life was miserable, and it was time to let him go. I laid his head in my lap, and through my tears told him what a great dog he had been and how much I was going to miss him. I contacted the vet to make arrangements, and to this day I don't know why, but she suggested that I give him a few more days.

The next day, when we took him out to the yard, as we set him down, he pulled himself up so that instead of being completely on his side, he was on his elbows, even though his back end was still immobile. Just that little progress was enough to make me hold off on putting him down. The next day, he pulled himself off the blanket to do his business using just his front paws, and then pulled himself back onto the blanket. On the advice of the vet, we treated the bedsore by spraying the wound with the garden hose, which stimulated the circulation and aided the healing process. It took several months for him to fully recover, and I never again let him run after balls, but he did recover and got to the point where I could take him for his walks, although we did cut back the distance. The bed sore healed to the point where a scar was barely noticeable, but you could hear his nails from one rear paw drag a bit on the walks. The rear paw nail drag lasted several years, but that, too, eventually went away.

He died when he was 13 years old, so you can see we had him for several more years. I'm glad my vet knew what she was talking about.

I guess my point to all this is to tell you not to give up. Even if you cannot afford the surgery, there may be other ways to address the problem. It may take time and a lot of patience. I hope your vet is as good as ours was/ is.

 

[~Haze~]

I'm not sure what they have available on those...I'm sure some good info on some not so much on others.



You could but I'm willing to bet 99.99999% of breeders out there don't give a shit....they just want the money or the blue ribbon.

Cost me a few hundred bucks to get a basic mas spec on plant samples....a DNA map? thousands bro...thousands. Dog breeders aren't coughing that up..fucked up dog? Snap it's neck, toss it and get that bitch knocked up again. Or even worse they use it as bait.

People are fucking scum....

Which is why I have never bought a quadrupedal pet...just adopted friendly strays.

I don't think that's true anymore. I mean they sell kits for less than $100.


They have kits on Amazon for $65 here. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[~Haze~]

I have done this before, firstly check out discount vets, then weigh the decisions. I can't tell you what is the best, but you pet will always love you no matter what. Debt is bad. Choose to relieve your pet from misery, when it happens. Then put him down with grief.

Because I need a vet neurosurgeon, discount vets are out. I have to go with the best. Besides, I don't think I would have it any other way.

 

[~Haze~]

Most places (at least in Australia) won't insure an animal once it hits the age of 7.

We were almost in this situation a month or so ago with our 7 year old Border Collie who collapsed one afternoon. They thought it was a snake bite and he'd end up needing about $12,000 worth of anti-venom and hospitalisation time to recover. Luckily they were wrong and his care was different and only around $3000 for 24 hours.

I feel for you and your decision, it is a truly difficult one to make and only you can really decide what is best for you and your dog.

I had pet insurance on him but took it off. It was $50 a month for coverage that would pay for up to a $5,000 operation. I chose to cancel it thinking that I was going to be paying one way or another.

If I could do it over, I would have kept the coverage, use their $5k and toss in a few grand of my own to get it done.

 

[~Haze~]

Before I reply to this, I just have t say that this is a scenario I am all too familiar with and unfortunately I have put significantly more animals down than the average person. For the most part horses, who are significantly more expensive (and generally, completely and utterly heartbreaking).



I mean no disrespect with this- but how can you truly know how much pain your dog is in? He has no way of communicating accurately with you. He can't rate it on a scale of 1-10, or tell you when he has spikes of pain. You don't know if it's radiating, stabbing, constant or comes in waves. There's simply no way for us to rate an animal's pain because we don't have effective means of communication. Sure, they tell us through behavior changes, but is that really enough?

Well, he might not be able to articulate how much and what type of pain he's in, but he does communicate to me and to the vet. And part of my decision making is based on feedback from the specialist vet I'm seeing.

The statement "he's not in much pain" is based on a few things.
1. His sensitivity to touch. Where you can touch him and how much pressure the vet can put on his spine and hips. 2. His ability to stand and walk. 3. His lack of whining. 4. He still gets excited. 5. His improving condition. He is able to do more now than he did on the first day he was hurt. And finally, the vets experience in seeing canines who haven't been able to move or have yelped every time they try to move.

I'm not saying he is not feeling pain, just based on the vets experience, he's very mobile and seems like he's on the low pain scale compared to what he's seen and what is possible.

This is why I'm able to rest him for 4 weeks and see if he does heal more on his own. If he was in a lot of pain, it would have required a decision much sooner. Either surgery or putting him down.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[~Haze~]

I think this is already posted on the forum, but it's relevant:
http://www.robynarouty.com/i-died-today/

Jesus. I'm balling my fucking eyes out now.

 

[eyer]

Pretty sure that no one on this thread said they'd put an animal's welfare above a human's...

Guaranteed there're a bushel of posters "on this thread" who full-heartily support abortion...

...and pretty sure that several people (myself included) specifically said they put humans' health above their animals'.

Even though you can only post for yourself...

...how many of those "several people", [your]"self included", support abortion?

Also pretty sure that you have no idea about most of our opinions on life etc.

Again, even though you can only post for yourself...

...I'm "pretty sure" I have an excellent "idea" about your "opinion" on abortion (since you've aired your "opinion" on this Board).

But don't let that stop you from tearing the stuffing out of that straw man.

You, and many other posters in this thread are on record as supporting abortion...

...the only "straw man" is you, not having the courage to admit that an animal's welfare is more dear to you than the very life of the most vulnerable humans among us.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...

...that is, if you don't support abortion.

 

[Paendragon]

The neighbors didn't spay or neuter and just put pans of food out nightly and let the cats fight over the food. Most of the cats were black.

I have never met a black cat I didn't like. I have a theory about that. Since people are superstitious, only those able to ingratiate themselves get homes. Also, like your cat, rotten people act fearful around or abuse black cats so they appreciate kindness.

Mine was named cat, because he started answering to it before I knew he was my cat, and I didn't know that his name was. I taught him the way I would a dog. He would come, sit, and the best trick I ever taught a cat: Go away.

I don't want to continue to hijack this thread, but I still do feral catch, spay, and release for this reason. It cuts down on territorial squabbles, etc, and also keeps the population in control.

Mine too. My little rescue died this year from something she ate that I don't know. She escaped back to the streets and she came home unable to eat. I have not been able to get another cat because my heart was broken. She was a clown who learned to open doors and cabinets. But to the OP if it costs that much I would say No. It is not about the money but the amount says a lot.

It's always tough. That's why I try not to judge someone for their decisions. I think 90% of pet owners, if costs were reasonable, would do whatever they could to help their pets. Sometimes it's just not possible.

 

[Paendragon]

I have a simple rule for pet medicine and operations:

I do not spend to the level of commitment unless I'm willing to continue spending without limit. If you break the rule, the memory of the pet will be that of the money spent, not of the love you shared.

I think I understand what you're saying . . .

For us, once the decision was made, we were all in. But even then, it was always as long as her quality of life was worth it. Sometimes there comes a time when it stops being about your pet and starts being about you, and you have to contemplate whether you are doing the right thing.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I apologize...

...I didn't mean to infer anything about the abortions you've paid for in your lifetime so far, killa.

Forgive me?

I wonder how many of the women you've proudly never used condoms with had abortions they never told you about in order to save your life a heap of misery in unwanted responsibility.

Or maybe they did it because they could sense that a biological connection to you in any shape or form would be an unnecessary misery for them. Give them thanks on the coming 27th for their largesse, Oak Tree Boy.