My dog needs a $9,000 operation. What would you do?

[marshalt]

Pretty sure all cats do.

3 cats have died under my care in the past 12 months. There were the 2 little bastards I found under my car in December. They didn't last very long. Then earlier this year, I decided I would try again, and got 2 more from craigslist. They were probably the nicest cats in the world, but they fought with each other, so I gave one to the neighbor lady. Back in September, my cat got sick so I took him to the vet. They ran a shitload of tests on him to the tune of several hundred dollars but couldn't find anything wrong with him. She said it was probably just food poisoning or something. Maybe he ate bug. Who knows, but she said he should be better in a few days. Well, I guess she was right because he decided to shed his mortal coil.

On the upside, his brother is doing very well at least. The old lady says he's the best cat she's ever had. I want to steal him back, but I'm pretty sure you go to hell for stealing a kitty from a lonely old lady.

 

[Wife of Bath]

Before I reply to this, I just have t say that this is a scenario I am all too familiar with and unfortunately I have put significantly more animals down than the average person. For the most part horses, who are significantly more expensive (and generally, completely and utterly heartbreaking).

Well, the short answer.... Yes. But he's not in That much pain.
Right now, I am trying to see if he can build up some scar tissue between his nerves and his spine. I am able to do this because he is not in a tremendous amount of pain. He can stand on his own but it hurts a little.

I mean no disrespect with this- but how can you truly know how much pain your dog is in? He has no way of communicating accurately with you. He can't rate it on a scale of 1-10, or tell you when he has spikes of pain. You don't know if it's radiating, stabbing, constant or comes in waves. There's simply no way for us to rate an animal's pain because we don't have effective means of communication. Sure, they tell us through behavior changes, but is that really enough?

Very few living organisms would choose euthanasia. I put a dog down not long ago and it was one of the worst experiences I've had to endure. I wouldn't spend 9k though. You'll know when it's time.

Unfortunately, for so many of us emotional humans, this just isn't true. As a person who has managed other people's animals for them, even when everyone who is impartial can say 'it's time', the person who owns the animal and has the strongest emotional connection simply can't see it. We are blinded by the oxytocin that binds us to our loved ones- whether they are two-legged or four-legged, there are chemically enforced emotional bonds that make it incredibly challenging to make impartial decisions when someone we love is in a medically devastating situation.

it comes down to how much relief you can offer vs how much you can afford...not an easy choice bro!
Stew

God damnit Stew, I just can't quit you.

personally? I would put the animal to sleep.

not just because of the money, but because years of niggling back pain would suck. animals don't show pain until it's very unpleasant (a basic survival instinct, not to show weakness), so they always look better than they really are. a 7y/o dog agreeing to bed rest must be in a fair amount of pain.

and from around 7, with that size dog, it's all going to be downhill from there. this will be the first of the injuries/illnesses that start to creep in. and if one disc is bad, how long do the others have?

I go for the good death option every time.

When we choose to purchase or adopt or pick up an animal off the street, we become their advocate. They have no words, so it is our responsibility to speak and choose for them. As fragile, emotional beings, for us it is often so much easier to go the selfish way- choosing to prolong the animal's pain even when the prognosis isn't good, or their quality of life would diminish significantly.

My recommendation to you is to truly weigh what the vets have told you about your sweet pup's condition and the potential for damage to quality of life and well-being of your dog. One of the most selfless things I believe any of us can do is to release our own emotional suffering- knowing the incredible grief and pain that will ensue- to allow our beloved pets solace and comfort.

Good luck in your choice, and I wish the best for you and your dog, whatever you end up choosing.

 

[Amanda_e]

I have a 7 year old full bred German Shepherd that was imported from Germany as a puppy.


He has a blown out disk in his spine and needs surgery by a dog neurosurgeon. I already had a consult and ran tests and X-rays which cost my $1,200. That is not part of the $9,000 estimate.

He's in good health otherwise. I would hate to have to put him down. He is 7 and could very well live to 12 or more.

If it is your dog, what do you do?

And no, I don't have 9 grand handy to get this done.

I'd work out a payment plan with the doctor. Dog's are worth every penny you spend on them.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Pretty sure all cats do.

My cat just turned 21. I think it's immortal.

 

[Fata Morgana]

What a fucking awful predicament. I've had several animals put to sleep over the years and it never gets easier. Reading all the replies I'd say dolf's makes the most sense to me.

I don't envy you. Best wishes and give that dog a rub for me.

PS. If I were master of the universe I'd swap it's place with eyer then suggest blowing the 9k you haven't got on coke and prostitutes while he watched.

 

[Fata Morgana]

My cat just turned 21. I think it's immortal.

Johnny makes pussy last forever.

 

[kbate]

Johnny makes pussy last forever.

Like new in the box.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

On the upside, his brother is doing very well at least. The old lady says he's the best cat she's ever had. I want to steal him back, but I'm pretty sure you go to hell for stealing a kitty from a lonely old lady.

I'm pretty sure you're right.


My herd is aging, but they're all in great health, save for being overweight. One has to scale the bedclothes to annoy me while I sleep.

 

[Riles]

Fromthe veterinary world - both large and small animal:

I don't know if anyone has said this or not, but your interpretation of what constitutes "pain" and what your dog is experiencing is likely quite different. Unless you have given him a sedative to keep him immobile, the fact that he is doing so says a LOT about his pain levels.

At 7, for a large breed, you are nearing the high end of his life expectancy as is.

Without having the money at your disposal, you decision IMHO has been made for you. I would rather see the money invested in another animal needing such loving care and a good home as you have provided for your old friend.

Sometimes Mother Nature gets it right more than we ever would and we need to follow her direction. Your dog can't make the decision to go off on his own and succumb to that very brutal Nature, but I think if you put the signs together, he's telling you he would. It is our duty as their guardians to pay attention to those signs.

My condolences and I hope you can make a decision that you can be at peace with.

 

[Aphro]

Fromthe veterinary world - both large and small animal:

I don't know if anyone has said this or not, but your interpretation of what constitutes "pain" and what your dog is experiencing is likely quite different. Unless you have given him a sedative to keep him immobile, the fact that he is doing so says a LOT about his pain levels.

At 7, for a large breed, you are nearing the high end of his life expectancy as is.

Without having the money at your disposal, you decision IMHO has been made for you. I would rather see the money invested in another animal needing such loving care and a good home as you have provided for your old friend.

Sometimes Mother Nature gets it right more than we ever would and we need to follow her direction. Your dog can't make the decision to go off on his own and succumb to that very brutal Nature, but I think if you put the signs together, he's telling you he would. It is our duty as their guardians to pay attention to those signs.

My condolences and I hope you can make a decision that you can be at peace with.

This.

I am so sorry you have to make this decision. As much as it would cause me great grief and heartache, in your position I would have the dog euthanized. I'd give him a last, glorious week, feeding him all the stuff he loves, petting and loving on him, and then I'd let him go so he will be free from suffering and pain.

 

[dolf]

I had a beautiful black lab that developed bone cancer. I did not have the money but I made it work. She had a couple of good years after that.

Looking back I should have put her down. Her pain and suffering through the procedures and treatments were not trivial. Annie was incredibly patient and tolerant of the pain. She felt my love until the last day.

I am sorry you are in this position.

Best wishes for you and your family.

this bears repeating.

when people boldly state that they would do anything for their pets, they usually mean they will do anything to delay their own personal pain of losing their pets. sentimentality is self serving.

 

[Laurel]

this bears repeating.

when people boldly state that they would do anything for their pets, they usually mean they will do anything to delay their own personal pain of losing their pets. sentimentality is self serving.

But I dunno if it's that clear cut. None of us really knows what our animals are feeling at any given time. And none of us really know if and when our animals want to die.

It does suck to keep a suffering animal alive because we don't want them to be gone. It also sucks to kill a pet because it's expensive or inconvenient to us for them to be alive.

My first cat had a fast-growing tumor in her stomach for several months before I noticed. She never showed pain. I OK'd over $10k in surgery (useless - the tumor was wrapped around her arteries, they couldn't remove it) along with a nearly a week at the vet hooked up to IVs and drugs and such (they thought she'd get well enough to die at home, but she didn't) before they called me up and told me to haul ass in there because she was failing. She died in my lap before they had a chance to give her The Shot.

I've gone over it in mind, and even though paying that off sucked bigtime I think I made the right decision - because had I told them not to try to remove the tumor AND she died a week later, I would've always believe that the surgery would've succeeded, that I killed her by not letting them try.

A couple years prior, my aunt's poodle had a tumor. She spent the money. Tumor was removed, poodle is still around and poodling away.

You never know. It could go either way. And other people in my position might feel like they were ripped off, and decide not to opt for surgery next time. I probably will, because I'm lame like that.

The whole problem could be mostly avoided if they could breed cats and dogs with human-sized lifespans. Ten or fifteen years seems way too short IMO.

My cat just turned 21. I think it's immortal.

Mine's 13. He wants advice from your kitt.

 

[Laurel]

I think this is already posted on the forum, but it's relevant:
http://www.robynarouty.com/i-died-today/

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Poodles have a way of poodling, don't they?


One of the 11YO cats is having a running fit. Damn fool!!!

 

[kbate]

I have a simple rule for pet medicine and operations:

I do not spend to the level of commitment unless I'm willing to continue spending without limit. If you break the rule, the memory of the pet will be that of the money spent, not of the love you shared.

 

[Laurel]

Poodles have a way of poodling, don't they?

Poodles gotta poodle

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/22218/wtf-o.gif

One of the 11YO cats is having a running fit. Damn fool!!!

Why do they do that?!

Mine's staring into the other room like there's someone there. He likes to do that when Manu's out of the house because he knows it'll freak me out. And it's working, because I've checked the house three times already.

 

[dolf]

But I dunno if it's that clear cut. None of us really knows what our animals are feeling at any given time. And none of us really know if and when our animals want to die.

yes we do. never. animals don't reason, therefore they don't think that death would be a release. and instinct will always be towards survival. that's why we make the choice for them.
If we love them (really love them) we don't choose what we think they want (which is likely enough treats to turn them into walking lard). If we love them we choose what is best for them.

I've gone over it in mind, and even though paying that off sucked bigtime I think I made the right decision - because had I told them not to try to remove the tumor AND she died a week later, I would've always believe that the surgery would've succeeded, that I killed her by not letting them try.

how is that piece of reasoning not selfish?
I'm not questioning the choice you made, merely pointing out that your example of non-selfish reasoning is entirely selfish.

 

[Laurel]

I have a simple rule for pet medicine and operations:

I do not spend to the level of commitment unless I'm willing to continue spending without limit. If you break the rule, the memory of the pet will be that of the money spent, not of the love you shared.

Makes sense.

 

[dolf]

also, removing tumours or cataracts can be a 100% cure, followed by a full and pain free life.
I would opt to remove a tumour, unless it was in a particularly risky place or it was a recurring tumour.

this is not a tumour or cataracts.

 

[eyer]

This thread is making me howl in incredulous delight.

A pseudo-philosophical debate whether a pet dog's health is worth spending $9K to address...

...among a gaggle of bozos who proclaim that conceived human life isn't human at all and can be aborted at will for $500 or less a pop.

I naturally socialize with, care for, doctor, feed, and entertain a herd of wild animals who happen to routinely come my way, from feral cats to wildcats, from roaming dogs to coyotes, from bunnies to burros, from free range horses and longhorns to birds of prey; interacting with that wild kingdom much more than with my fellow man, it's naturally easy to "feel" love for almost all of them...

...but not one of their lives or welfare are as valuable as the life of a single human being.

So, keep on going with your a pet is worth saving at any price while maintaining some human life isn't worth saving at all...

...may all your "pets" contract rabies, then viciously bite you numerous times before ripping out your human-hating hearts and feasting upon their blackness.

Shalom.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I've spent quite a bit of money to remove two tumors from pets over the years.

The dog lived another 5 years to the ripe old age of 14.

The cat is still alive 11 years later at the age of 18.

Twas worth it.

 

[dolf]

this is aimed at humans, but it's still worth reading...

•Fusion surgery changes the mechanics of the back forever. Because the fused segment is immobilized, the back's flexibility diminishes and added stress is distributed to non-fused segments. This weakens those segments over time, and a significant percentage of patients (30% or more) will develop degenerative disease at the neighboring segments. Fusion does not result in a normal back, although it generally reduces the preoperative pain level and improves preoperative function.

 

[Laurel]

yes we do. never. animals don't reason, therefore they don't think that death would be a release. and instinct will always be towards survival. that's why we make the choice for them.
If we love them (really love them) we don't choose what we think they want (which is likely enough treats to turn them into walking lard). If we love them we choose what is best for them.

how is that piece of reasoning not selfish?
I'm not questioning the choice you made, merely pointing out that your example of non-selfish reasoning is entirely selfish.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever said anything about not being selfish. In fact, in my first post I believe I told the OP that he has to make the choice that he can live with. In my situation, I made the choice I could live with, and I'd make it again - because at the end of the day I felt comfortable in that situation with that choice, only because living with the thought that I could've done more and maybe saved her life would've been unbearable. For me. Not for her, because she's dead anyhow. Ergo, it's selfish.

We don't really have the animal's input. Unless they're in obvious and observable agony, how do we know they want to die? We don't so we make decisions based on our own feelings.

Call it "killing an animal" or call it "putting it out of its pain and misery". Or "keeping an injured animal alive and suffering" or "letting the animal choose its own time to die". It's all semantics. We choose whichever words that make us feel better.

If I had a terminally ill animal that was nearing the end, I think I'd like to do something like the photo essay above - give them one last perfect day and let it end in peace and love. I'd like to think that s/he would want that, but at the end of the day that choice would really be about me feeling better about the whole thing. Because at the end of the day, the animal is gone, no matter how it's spun.

 

[dolf]

We don't really have the animal's input. Unless they're in obvious and observable agony, how do we know they want to die? We don't so we make decisions based on our own feelings.

you appear to have not read what I actually wrote.

 

[girlsmiley]

Haze, I am sorry you're going through a bit of a hard time.

I wish I could make your dog better. Alas.