'thank you for your service''

[dolf]

I may well have come back from Thailand suffering from PTSD save for the fact I spent most of the year stoned on really good hashish.

I do admit, though, that it makes me a little uncomfortable when people thank me for my service.

I hate that bit. I smile and try to bear it graciously, but it never really gets any easier.

I've never understood that one. it's terribly American and... well, like any line parroted a million times a day, it seems tripe and hollow. if it were me, I would hate to hear it.

It is, generally. The issue is that my parents' generation never got over their own guilt about how they treated their veterans coming back from Vietnam. What's interesting to me about that, is that they mostly blamed draftees who were too poor to avoid college and thus deferment. It's a profoundly middle-class white-people way of thinking - blame the underprivileged for their problems. Now we have the opposite problem, where we mindlessly line up to thank people for volunteering to be part of that system. Nowadays for many, the only way to GET healthcare, to GET money for college, is to pick up a rifle.

I wonder if it's a post 9/11 /generational thing. I don't ever remember being thanked when I was actually serving or anytime soon after.

I didn't ever feel a need to be thanked. I joined because I needed something to do after high school. I was not going to college - I was a lousy student - and there was nothing in my home town to hold my interest at that time. It allowed me to learn a trade.

I got to experience other cultures, both at home and overseas, and made some great friends. Serving was not a bad experience for me.

following on from the blurt thread conversation...

?

 

[Learnsmith]

It has occurred to me that the modern military seems to be our own real-life version of the Hunger Games: spectacle played with the lives of the young for ratings, for profit, and for a misplaced sense of national unity.

 

[dg]

you are most welcome.

 

[dolf]

you are most welcome.

you haven't serviced me yet, mr!

 

[dg]

you haven't serviced me yet, mr!

the aftermaths of a very frustrating servicing were delivered early this morning. it took 4 hours. i'm actually in some pain.

 

[neci]

it has always made me feel awkward, the expectation that i should thank someone for their service. the thing is, i feel as if i don't thank them, i am in some way unamerican or disrespecting them. the "thank a veteran!" is so deeply engrained into what it means to be a grateful american, that to even question giving thanks is somehow sacrilege. patriotism is fierce here, and there are communities of fallen soldiers, mothers and wives and children and brothers and sisters and neighbors, i feel i am letting down if i do not vocalize my thanks.

the truth is, i don't know why we don't thank local heros who put their lives on the line as well. i wish we thanked firefighters the way we do veterans. i wish we thanked the people who accept shit wages to help victims of domestic abuse they way we thank veterans.

given my personal politics, i most likely disagree with the war fought, but i understand what it is to pick up the gun, so you have a shot at life. i don't harbor disrespect for the individual. i wish i could create an america where you didn't have to pick up a gun to get healthcare or an education. as my own children get older, i realize that in the search of a life that works for me, i most likely will not be able to pay their way through college or guarantee them health insurance until they are 25. i would support them if they decided to go off to war, even though it would break everything inside of me. i would be a mother who thanked her children for their service, because i was not able to keep them from leaving.

 

[oggbashan]

Apart from our own British and Commonwealth troops, I am grateful to the US forces of WW2 in all theatres of war.

Most of them didn't choose to enlist - they were drafted - but their actions saved the free world.

I don't see many WW2 US veterans now - but when I did, I tried to express my thanks.

 

[tactful]

"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." RAMF

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

Veterans Day has a good idea behind the day, but what veterans are you thankful to? Those who were cooks at Ft Carson for 2 years, or Johnny Grunt who did 30 years, and served several combat tours?

 

[dg]

By the way - was not thinking about what this post was about nor did I read dolfs original post. I have nothing to say you're welcome for in this regard and do express thanks to those who serve their country honorably.

 

[Que]

it has always made me feel awkward, the expectation that i should thank someone for their service. the thing is, i feel as if i don't thank them, i am in some way unamerican or disrespecting them. the "thank a veteran!" is so deeply engrained into what it means to be a grateful american, that to even question giving thanks is somehow sacrilege. patriotism is fierce here, and there are communities of fallen soldiers, mothers and wives and children and brothers and sisters and neighbors, i feel i am letting down if i do not vocalize my thanks.

the truth is, i don't know why we don't thank local heros who put their lives on the line as well. i wish we thanked firefighters the way we do veterans. i wish we thanked the people who accept shit wages to help victims of domestic abuse they way we thank veterans.

given my personal politics, i most likely disagree with the war fought, but i understand what it is to pick up the gun, so you have a shot at life. i don't harbor disrespect for the individual. i wish i could create an america where you didn't have to pick up a gun to get healthcare or an education. as my own children get older, i realize that in the search of a life that works for me, i most likely will not be able to pay their way through college or guarantee them health insurance until they are 25. i would support them if they decided to go off to war, even though it would break everything inside of me. i would be a mother who thanked her children for their service, because i was not able to keep them from leaving.

Lots of good thoughts there. It is entirely appropriate to be thankful of people who serve others in any capacity. Even those we disagree with. I am not fond of our ruling political class, but I know some personally that clearly could do other things and choose it for reasons of service and patriotism. I'm not a fan of unions, but I know passionate teachers that are involved with the NEA and truly believe their work is important for helping children. I dated a union agitator for the flight-attendants union in my youth. She genuinely felt that a component of that was safety of the public in the air, and so on.

No question about community heroes in the police and fire departments. Even those that are in dispatch of run an ambulance or work an ER. They are all exposed to shocking PTSD type events.

I have respect for people that either for religious or simply because they are following the dictates of their own conscience could never serve in a uniform with a gun.

Veteran's day for me, though is about those that at some point signed over their rights as citizens, subjected themselves to orders and the UCMJ and did what was required of them, knowing that at anytime they might be ordered to do something that basic self-preservation would suggest is fool-hardy. I do not differentiate between those that ended up in combat and those that made themselves available for it when considering who we should be thankful for their service

Those that actually did see combat deserve our support and understanding. Anyone that would denigrate a combat veteran or sneer at their service stands out to me as a person of major insecurities.

 

[richard_daily]

I think that all people who serve the citizens of their country should be thanked, including teachers, garbage collectors, and all the people who volunteer.

 

[Saint Peter]

This might not be the case today with the big corporations serving the food and cleaning the latrines, but years back the forces took care of it all themselves. The list of job descriptions is almost endless. But the Seals would not be able to do their Seal Stuff if Bob did not get the plane fueled.

Today being a grumpy old fucker I get the importance of structure more than I did as a youngster. I also realize that there were plenty of workers in the states manufacturing doodads, growing food, and sewing uniforms. Those are just as forgotten as the supply clerk.

Right or wrong, like it or not, it takes a nation to support a war.

 

[Learnsmith]

it has always made me feel awkward, the expectation that i should thank someone for their service. the thing is, i feel as if i don't thank them, i am in some way unamerican or disrespecting them. the "thank a veteran!" is so deeply engrained into what it means to be a grateful american, that to even question giving thanks is somehow sacrilege. patriotism is fierce here, and there are communities of fallen soldiers, mothers and wives and children and brothers and sisters and neighbors, i feel i am letting down if i do not vocalize my thanks.

the truth is, i don't know why we don't thank local heros who put their lives on the line as well. i wish we thanked firefighters the way we do veterans. i wish we thanked the people who accept shit wages to help victims of domestic abuse they way we thank veterans.

given my personal politics, i most likely disagree with the war fought, but i understand what it is to pick up the gun, so you have a shot at life. i don't harbor disrespect for the individual. i wish i could create an america where you didn't have to pick up a gun to get healthcare or an education. as my own children get older, i realize that in the search of a life that works for me, i most likely will not be able to pay their way through college or guarantee them health insurance until they are 25. i would support them if they decided to go off to war, even though it would break everything inside of me. i would be a mother who thanked her children for their service, because i was not able to keep them from leaving.

My issue with the gratitude toward military service is that, so often, it ends up used as a tool for silencing dissent. People died, therefore, how dare one question? I don't just see this though where it applies to fallen veterans; I also see friends with whom I served later become poisonously right-wing as a way of justifying their experiences. In every instance, the only response seems to be "I fought for my country," and I always want to respond, "Well, motherfucker, so did I. Doesn't mean I just magically stop calling bullshit."

A couple years ago, I was at the local VA hospital getting checked out for something. I was the only veteran in the waiting room under 30. All around me, a gaggle of elderly vets, one old woman in particular wearing a Navy sweatshirt, were all bitching about the evils of the recent health-care reform movement, talking about socialism and saying how Obama "better keep his hands off my benefits." The woman in question was lugging around an oxygen tank, mind you, and I suspect I was the only person there NOT on disability. I looked up from my book and pointed out to all those in attendance that, while they enjoyed not just VA benefits but also likely the Medicare paid for by my tax dollars, the only way I had managed to afford college or to see a doctor was by signing up for a war I never completely agreed with. I went back to my book after that, and those gathered all looked at me like I was some sort of Communist.

So yeah. This is more or less what I'm used to. Fawning hero-worship from strangers, or friends' kids asking me out of nowhere if I play Call of Duty. When I demur or speak critically, I get looked at with distrust. Make no mistake, I'm proud of what I endured, proud of having been tested and survived, but I'm not proud of the way my society fetishizes it. Conservatives are wrong, warfare is not the natural state of man; it is an aberration. And I am troubled by the way we fetishize the aberration.

 

[Learnsmith]

This might not be the case today with the big corporations serving the food and cleaning the latrines, but years back the forces took care of it all themselves. The list of job descriptions is almost endless. But the Seals would not be able to do their Seal Stuff if Bob did not get the plane fueled.

Today being a grumpy old fucker I get the importance of structure more than I did as a youngster. I also realize that there were plenty of workers in the states manufacturing doodads, growing food, and sewing uniforms. Those are just as forgotten as the supply clerk.

Right or wrong, like it or not, it takes a nation to support a war.

The level of privatization I saw in Iraq was fucking scary. I try to explain it to people and they never believe me.

 

[Hard_Rom]

It has occurred to me that the modern military seems to be our own real-life version of the Hunger Games: spectacle played with the lives of the young for ratings, for profit, and for a misplaced sense of national unity.

You just described 50% of all the wars ever fought by mankind.

 

[Learnsmith]

You just described 50% of all the wars ever fought by mankind.

I suspect as much.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

This might not be the case today with the big corporations serving the food and cleaning the latrines, but years back the forces took care of it all themselves. The list of job descriptions is almost endless. But the Seals would not be able to do their Seal Stuff if Bob did not get the plane fueled.

They used to have an MOS for every sort of job and service you could think of, but now most jobs are outsourced and privatized. The jobs we used to train our service members for are now given to civilians, who make 2x the pay of the service member that used to do the job. Before long, our entire military will be run by privatized industry and will serve those industries and not us.

 

[Que]

The level of privatization I saw in Iraq was fucking scary. I try to explain it to people and they never believe me.

We really have become a military of contractors. Everything from support to what ends up being actual combat operations. The difference in pay between a security contractor and a front-line active military combatant is shocking.

On the one hand, it makes a lot of sense to me to encourage mercenary support in places we have an interest but do not want to deploy. It seems off to me though, when we have both in the same area. Any ill-will that is the product of some private security firm in a region is going to blow-back on our actual troops.

I read the book about the story of Blackwater expecting to disagree with the reports conclusions. He isn't wrong in his concerns.

As far as your service, I am all the more grateful for it in light of your discomfiture and conflict about it. Your service as your own personal growth is, I think, not that uncommon. Where I work they have actively recruited veterans because we are considered a hardship area and vets have a habit of sticking with it as opposed to quitting after 6 months of good pay. It is rare that you find out that they served much less specifics unless you have gotten to know them quite well. I find modesty the rule rather than the exception.

 

[Sean]

will serve those industries and not us.

LOL. That's been the case since at least the Roman Empire.

 

[tactful]

I think that all people who serve the citizens of their country should be thanked, including teachers, garbage collectors, and all the people who volunteer.

They are, but just not today.

 

[snugglestruggle]

Regardless of why they wear the uniform, they do . Because they do we get to go about our lives in relative peace and security because they are standing guard. That's reason enough to be thankful IMO.

 

[possum123]

I am a veteran.
I don't really need your thanks. I did notice all of the people cussing me and trying to spit on me when I came back to the states. I will never forget that "thanks".
I don't need your parades.
One thing I do need. I want what I was promised when I went into the military.
For many years the people of the U.S. has been taking the benefits the veterans were promised and giving it to the politicians.
Now most veterans have to pay for their treatment at the VA hospitals while the politicians who never served a day in the military get free medical treatment.

A few weeks ago a blind WWII veteran was told he would no longer be treated at the VA. Later one of his family got in touch with a TV station and they did a story on him.
The WA got in touch with him and said they had found out something when they saw him on TV. They found out he was blind. He would receive treatment at the VA.
Can you imagine how much treatment he had before when the doctors who treated him did not even know he was blind.

A new man took over the head of the VA to help the veterans receive what they were promised.
According to him the veterans were mistreated. He immediately put over 1000 VA workers on paid vacation and gave all of the doctors a raise.
That should make all veterans feel good.
Thanks people of the U.S.

 

[Learnsmith]

I am a veteran.
I don't really need your thanks. I did notice all of the people cussing me and trying to spit on me when I came back to the states. I will never forget that "thanks".
I don't need your parades.
One thing I do need. I want what I was promised when I went into the military.
For many years the people of the U.S. has been taking the benefits the veterans were promised and giving it to the politicians.
Now most veterans have to pay for their treatment at the VA hospitals while the politicians who never served a day in the military get free medical treatment.

A few weeks ago a blind WWII veteran was told he would no longer be treated at the VA. Later one of his family got in touch with a TV station and they did a story on him.
The WA got in touch with him and said they had found out something when they saw him on TV. They found out he was blind. He would receive treatment at the VA.
Can you imagine how much treatment he had before when the doctors who treated him did not even know he was blind.

A new man took over the head of the VA to help the veterans receive what they were promised.
According to him the veterans were mistreated. He immediately put over 1000 VA workers on paid vacation and gave all of the doctors a raise.
That should make all veterans feel good.
Thanks people of the U.S.

You know, it's been interesting, my experience at the VA. The people who work there remind me of every schoolteacher or librarian or public-defender I ever met. Public employees, passionate about doing something good for society - and every one of them broken by bureaucracy, corruption, and lack of funding. I'm interested to see what the new chair does.

 

[dolf]

ok... this thread isn't about being thankful, it's about speaking a line.

what the quotes said to me is that it can make vets feel uncomfortable.
it does seem to be a newish thing. neci said not saying it = unpatriotic,
at least in the eyes of those around her, those who judge her actions.

does it lose all meaning when it's said automatically, by everyone,
when said because conforming to the new rules of gratitude dictate?