Does the minimum wage kill jobs?

[unregistered]

 

[Disgustipated]

As some Democrats want to revive it as well. Rob thinks it failed because he wasn't running it.

None of that is true. Why do you lie so much?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

According to Hedrick Smith in The Russians, and others who have studied it, the Soviet central planners for instance set goals for the production of 22 million bras a year. The trouble was hardly any Soviet woman would wear them as they were of one basic size and color. So many Russian women would opt to accost western women in airports and train stations and offer to buy their lingerie right off their bodies for un Godly prices, of course the activity was illegal under Soviet law, but Russians engaged in it nonetheless. This article alludes to the problem here:

http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1990/06/inside-the-collapsing-soviet-economy/303870/

The basic law of substitute goods.

 

[RobDownSouth]

As some Democrats want to revive it as well. Rob thinks it failed because he wasn't running it.

#AscriptionAgain
#DisgraceToTheUSMC

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Sorry Carol, that's not how it functions in the real world, that's how it functions in a text book.

And no possum, the workers are not surviving in any functional way. Some of them can get better jobs but ultimately that doesn't really change the crux of the problem.

How it works in the real world is like this: Our county government wants to put 300 young blacks to work, to make a small dent in the poverty in the hood. 300 young adults. The government estimates it needs 178 MILLION Dollars to make it happen. That's 593K per kid. The kid wont make 593K of course, its what the government needs to create 300 jobs for unskilled utes.

 

[KingOrfeo]

According to Hedrick Smith in The Russians, and others who have studied it, the Soviet central planners for instance set goals for the production of 22 million bras a year. The trouble was hardly any Soviet woman would wear them as they were of one basic size and color. So many Russian women would opt to accost western women in airports and train stations and offer to buy their lingerie right off their bodies for un Godly prices, of course the activity was illegal under Soviet law, but Russians engaged in it nonetheless. This article alludes to the problem here:

http://m.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1990/06/inside-the-collapsing-soviet-economy/303870/

Of course, that has nothing to do with anything here. Basic manufacturing production is rarely nationalized in the U.S. in peacetime. No, the nearest American equivalent would be, say, a public electric utility, which allows for no competition but which sell and charges the customers for exactly as much power as they want to use. Based on America's alternative experiences, with private providers such as ENRON, etc., that's really the most efficient way to handle that naturally-oligopolistic sector. And not that sector alone.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

It was directed at 4est, and the inference that you're in total sympathy with command order economics.

For some things they don't work, for some things they do; it also varies with time and place and circumstance.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

One last point, just as in my earlier example of the automated process for making burgers in the factory, if you drive labor costs up high enough, then automation can be scaled down and then you need very few employees to keep the machines fed, the customers can order and pay through computer interface.

What you liberals need to do is to follow Seattle's example, and if you think it is right for you, then impose it upon those businesses where you live, work and make your purchases. This dream of yours hurts the rest of us far more than it hurts you and displaces far more of our jobs than it will yours.

Do it to you, prove what a panacea it is, and who knows, maybe the rest of us will voluntarily follow your example.

PS - The Ford example is bogus. All he did was follow the Apple model after rejecting the Microsoft model. He was in a rapidly expanding economy and had a near monopoly and had the freedom and luxury to charge and pay pretty much whatever he wanted to. You see, the problem with the historical model of Economics is that you can never reproduce all of the conditions of the past when you try to impose it on the present.

 

[Disgustipated]

@billmaher: John Kline gets $ from Target, Best Buy, Home Depot, votes agst raising minimum wage. Probly just a coincidence. Flip this loser, pleeeeze!

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

So people can afford to buy its products.

Henry Ford figured that one out a hundred years ago. He paid his workers more than he might have got them for under basic market-competition, so they could buy Model T's, etc. After all, why should your employees and your customers be non-overlapping groups? That only costs you customers. And he had considerable difficulty convincing his shareholders of the common sense of that. But it was Ford's high-wage vision that not only led to the success of Ford Motors and the auto industry in general, but was the foundation of the 20th-Century American social contract, and paved the way for the mass-consumption society and the beginnings of the erasure, for the first time in history, of the distinction between the working class and the middle class.

The other plus for Ford was that there were a lot less taxes and oppressive regulations.

 

[someoneyouknow]

If the minimum wage kills jobs, then Costco should be out of business within the next five years or so.

They pay their employees roughly $20/hour, plus health benefits.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The other plus for Ford was that there were a lot less taxes and oppressive regulations.

The tax wouldn't have effected him a whole lot at all and our regulations are really insufficiently oppressive but even if they weren't they wouldn't have effected Ford but so much.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

I can imagine all the obama slaves telling their kids how they wish that some day they too can work hard and achieve the dream of earning min wage

 

[Sean Renaud]

Actually Jen, that's the dream of every Republican and its' terrifying.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

The tax wouldn't have effected him a whole lot at all and our regulations are really insufficiently oppressive but even if they weren't they wouldn't have effected Ford but so much.

Here's a video of Economist Peter Schiff talking about Henry Ford in front of a Congressional committee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST_ZJ4s7PZc

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

One last point, just as in my earlier example of the automated process for making burgers in the factory, if you drive labor costs up high enough, then automation can be scaled down and then you need very few employees to keep the machines fed, the customers can order and pay through computer interface.

What you liberals need to do is to follow Seattle's example, and if you think it is right for you, then impose it upon those businesses where you live, work and make your purchases. This dream of yours hurts the rest of us far more than it hurts you and displaces far more of our jobs than it will yours.

Do it to you, prove what a panacea it is, and who knows, maybe the rest of us will voluntarily follow your example.

PS - The Ford example is bogus. All he did was follow the Apple model after rejecting the Microsoft model. He was in a rapidly expanding economy and had a near monopoly and had the freedom and luxury to charge and pay pretty much whatever he wanted to. You see, the problem with the historical model of Economics is that you can never reproduce all of the conditions of the past when you try to impose it on the present.

The other plus for Ford was that there were a lot less taxes and oppressive regulations.

'Nuff said.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

If the minimum wage kills jobs, then Costco should be out of business within the next five years or so.

They pay their employees roughly $20/hour, plus health benefits.

Their model is different. Each employee handles more product than does one at say, Kmart because they are employing bulk sales. There is far less processing from truck to consumer.

They also employ fewer workers. Their pay and benefits are going to be in line with a similar enterprise that breaks the freight down for individual sales.

This is a case of comparing apples to oranges.

The place that puts out the frozen burgers (from my example above) also pays its fewer employees more money, but that is not evidence of the damage done by forcing a business to raise wages to those who need those entry jobs the most in order to prove that they are worth more money.

 

[PoppingTom]

Here's a video of Economist Peter Schiff talking about Henry Ford in front of a Congressional committee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST_ZJ4s7PZc

Sorry, but he's wrong.

Your unions, taxes and regulations are nothing against those we got here in Germany, but we're still on top of car productions.

 

[cowslinger64]

Sorry, but he's wrong.

Your unions, taxes and regulations are nothing against those we got here in Germany, but we're still on top of car productions.

You're not gonna convince those dumbfucks of anything, trust me. If you like to argue tho, those are good subjects right there..

 

[PoppingTom]

You're not gonna convince those dumbfucks of anything...

Well, discussions are not for convincing, but for opinion exchange. You're much more relaxed if you got that in mind.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Sorry, but he's wrong.

Your unions, taxes and regulations are nothing against those we got here in Germany, but we're still on top of car productions.

Fourth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_vehicle_production

 

[cowslinger64]

Well, discussions are not for convincing, but for opinion exchange. You're much more relaxed if you got that in mind.

I'm always relaxed, actually just pointing out the obvious. lol


And you don't have discussions with them.. Take forestdump for example... he'll say something, then try to defend it, then switch what he said around, throw a whole bunch of other things into the "discussion" that have zero to do with the original argument, then bring out the big words, the archaic ones and quotes by people to make himself look lucid, then get mad when the dancing hasn't worked yet again... then tosses in a couple of winks, and finally disappears.

I think I got all the steps in there.. lol

 

[PoppingTom]

And you don't have discussions with them.. Take forestdump for example...

I know the agenda alts here. Some of them simply do hounding and flaming, but some bring a few points worth talking about. It's not my problem if they can't handle the competition in reliability seriously.

 

[PoppingTom]

Fourth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_motor_vehicle_production

In total production, yes.

But first in export.

http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/explore/tree_map/export/show/all/8703/2012/