Slavery? Will it ever be legal again?

[marshalt]

No, being incarcerated isn't slavery. Being incarcerated and performing labor however is.

I suppose that in a way it is slavery. But it's also a punishment.

Now, sitting in jail and awaiting trial and being made to do work? That's slavery. There was a case awhile back where a guy was refused bail and had to stay in jail until his court date. He refused to do any work on the grounds that he had yet to be convicted of a crime and should not be subjected to any sort of punishment. Because of this, he was put in solitary. The case against him was later dismissed and he sued. I can't seem to find what happened to him though.

 

[smoothg103rd]

No, being incarcerated isn't slavery. Being incarcerated and performing labor however is. While I would argue that if you got drafted its slavery. Not everybody in every military volunteers.

Everything is a choice. Nothing in this world except abortion if you buy into the idea that an embryo/fetus is a person is a choice. So that's too broad or narrow a definition.

You don't have to do the labor, sit your ass in solitary and thats thats. And I would rather work than sit in a cell all day.

 

[RobDownSouth]

What's your working definition of "civilized?"

"non-libertarian".

#Booyah

 

[Sean Renaud]

I suppose that in a way it is slavery. But it's also a punishment.

Now, sitting in jail and awaiting trial and being made to do work? That's slavery. There was a case awhile back where a guy was refused bail and had to stay in jail until his court date. He refused to do any work on the grounds that he had yet to be convicted of a crime and should not be subjected to any sort of punishment. Because of this, he was put in solitary. The case against him was later dismissed and he sued. I can't seem to find what happened to him though.

It is a punishment. Sorta. (If you think that putting a guy away for a decade for some minor drug infringment, and then charging him pen, stamp and paper privileges to stich uniforms for you isn't slavery we are starting to get into sufficient nuance where yeah you're right by the most text book answer but certainly not in spirit.

I'm sure there are cases of the system being beaten mind you. But the bottom line is slavery still exists we just shifted our laws slightly around it so it looks different on paper and people are willing to accept it. Mostly because it happens to minorities.

You don't have to do the labor, sit your ass in solitary and thats thats. And I would rather work than sit in a cell all day.

Solitary is torture. Literally we know the long term effects of it. So your argument is now hinged on you could go slowly crazy instead of being beaten or possibly killed outright for refusing to do labor? Not to mention that's not always true. Sherrif Joe of Arizona is famous for "you don't work, you don't eat." and the feds have tried to shut him down for the last. . .must be twenty years and failed every single fucking time.

 

[smoothg103rd]

It you go to work and till your boss what you ain't gone do what will happen? You will be fired. If you a child and you do something bad what will happen? You would get a ass whopping. People know what they are getting into before they get into it. Jail and prison is no different.

 

[RobDownSouth]

It you go to work and till your boss what you ain't gone do what will happen? You will be fired. If you a child and you do something bad what will happen? You would get a ass whopping. People know what they are getting into before they get into it. Jail and prison is no different.

Your ignorant ass needs to look up and understand the difference between "accused" and "convicted".

 

[Sean Renaud]

It you go to work and till your boss what you ain't gone do what will happen? You will be fired. If you a child and you do something bad what will happen? You would get a ass whopping. People know what they are getting into before they get into it. Jail and prison is no different.

How is slavery any different, especially if you're going to bring up children? I know I didn't have any say in being born. No say in not being born to a family with a butler to handle stupid shit for me. I didn't know what I was getting into and had absolutely no legal say until age 18. Granted I suppose I could have attempted to make a case for emancipation at 16 but my case would have been.

Sean: Your honor. My parents expect me to empty the dishwasher, mow the lawn, put up my clothes AND go to school and graduate. I think that's bullshit and sometimes they won't let me eat or go to sleep until a big project is finished.

I do not think that would go over particularly well.

Your ignorant ass needs to look up and understand the difference between "accused" and "convicted".

In this case I'm not sure I see the difference. Only the convicted end up doing labor.

 

[Mike_Yates]

I'm talking about legal in the civilized world. And I'm not talking BDMS. I'm asking if the civilized world will ever see human beings owned as property.

Well, they have what most people would consider to be slavery in China and India.

 

[smoothg103rd]

How is slavery any different, especially if you're going to bring up children? I know I didn't have any say in being born. No say in not being born to a family with a butler to handle stupid shit for me. I didn't know what I was getting into and had absolutely no legal say until age 18. Granted I suppose I could have attempted to make a case for emancipation at 16 but my case would have been.

Sean: Your honor. My parents expect me to empty the dishwasher, mow the lawn, put up my clothes AND go to school and graduate. I think that's bullshit and sometimes they won't let me eat or go to sleep until a big project is finished.

I do not think that would go over particularly well.



In this case I'm not sure I see the difference. Only the convicted end up doing labor.

I was just making a point, that every thing you do has it's own affect. And at least you had a Butler.

 

[smoothg103rd]

Your ignorant ass needs to look up and understand the difference between "accused" and "convicted".

I been to jail, I haven't met a innocent person in there.

 

[RobDownSouth]

In this case I'm not sure I see the difference. Only the convicted end up doing labor.

I'm okay with that. I read smoov's diatribe as saying the accused should be doin' labor too. If that's not what he meant, then I apologize. I'm man enough to own up to my errors of fact.

 

[unregistered]

 

[richard_daily]

...and here comes stupid.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I been to jail, I haven't met a innocent person in there.

I have. I've definitely met people that aren't a danger to society and even if they ARE guilty shouldn't be in jail. Even if you were right and everybody in there deserved it and was guilty that wouldn't make it NOT slavery.

I'm okay with that. I read smoov's diatribe as saying the accused should be doin' labor too. If that's not what he meant, then I apologize. I'm man enough to own up to my errors of fact.

He may or may not have. Just cus I like you doesn't stop me from questioning you. We are not right wingers!

As we speak, the private sector are the economic slaves of the administrative state, as we live out our experiment with a tin horn and his post constitutional republic.

No they are not. That is of course the natural state of the private sector and we suffer because we have flipped the world on it's ear but still.

We are no more and no less post constitutional than we've been any other time in the last several decades.

 

[Ishmael]

Slavery? No.

Indentured Servitude? Yes.

You will be the servant and the government will hold the contract.

Ishmael

 

[Sean Renaud]

Slavery? No.

Indentured Servitude? Yes.

You will be the servant and the government will hold the contract.

Ishmael

Fair enough. With full respect for your intelligence, I think you are in an area here where the average American would be unable to tell the difference. The difference isn't purely semantic if we are being precise with our language but how often are people precise?

I would be willing to bet there are still a fair amount of places where the people who are the primary employers are also the ones who own the apartments. I mean yea serfdom isn't slavery. . .but

 

[smoothg103rd]

Going to jail doesn't have shit to do with being a danger to society. It's about paying your debt to society, you did something illegal and have to face the consequences. You got caught so own up to it.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Going to jail doesn't have shit to do with being a danger to society. It's about paying your debt to society, you did something illegal and have to face the consequences. You got caught so own up to it.

Lets accept your idea, yet again. That doesn't make it not slavery.

PS: With privately owned prisons that receive money based on occupancy you are technically making them money just sitting there. And they have incentive to both get you in and keep you in. Sure you have a "choice" but like slaves in 1820 had a choice. Fight and die.

 

[smoothg103rd]

I'm okay with that. I read smoov's diatribe as saying the accused should be doin' labor too. If that's not what he meant, then I apologize. I'm man enough to own up to my errors of fact.

Being in prison mean you was convicted of a crime, dumb ass.

 

[smoothg103rd]

Lets accept your idea, yet again. That doesn't make it not slavery.

PS: With privately owned prisons that receive money based on occupancy you are technically making them money just sitting there. And they have incentive to both get you in and keep you in. Sure you have a "choice" but like slaves in 1820 had a choice. Fight and die.

You eating for free and paying no rent no matter how good or comfortable the food and living conditions are. You sign up for it when you decide to commit a crime. So if they make money off you its because you decided to let them.

Its like someone tell you that you can live with them and eat for free but you gotta do chores

 

[doowdniw]

If you're in jail around here waiting for trial (either can't make or were denied bail), you get your three squares a day, and basically sit around in the day room playing cards and and watching TV. No required work detail. Not freedom, but sure as hell not slavery either.

 

[smoothg103rd]

If you're in jail around here waiting for trial (either can't make or were denied bail), you get your three squares a day, and basically sit around in the day room playing cards and and watching TV. No required work detail. Not freedom, but sure as hell not slavery either.

Yeah you don't have to work in the county, plus you get a lot of rec time if the jail ain't on lock down.

 

[Sean Renaud]

You eating for free and paying no rent no matter how good or comfortable the food and living conditions are. You sign up for it when you decide to commit a crime. So if they make money off you its because you decided to let them.

Its like someone tell you that you can live with them and eat for free but you gotta do chores

No, you don't sign up for it. But if that is your definition then slavery has never been legal because you signed up for that when you lost a fight or were captured. And you could still rebel.

 

[smoothg103rd]

No, you don't sign up for it. But if that is your definition then slavery has never been legal because you signed up for that when you lost a fight or were captured. And you could still rebel.

Its a difference there Sean. You knew before you committed the crime, there is a chance you might go to jail. Winning the fight could've prevented slavery, but it wasn't their fault. It's your fault that you are in jail.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Its a difference there Sean. You knew before you committed the crime, there is a chance you might go to jail. Winning the fight could've prevented slavery, but it wasn't their fault. It's your fault that you are in jail.

Perhaps you knew there was a chance, perhaps you didn't. Unless raiders came to your village though by magic you could have left your home. It was your fault. You made a choice.

I think your definition of choice however is insane.