Hope for taxpayers everywhere ...

[Amberchgo]

Sacramento — Public-employee pensions are not protected when a city goes belly-up, according to a ruling Wednesday by the judge overseeing Stockton’s much-watched federal bankruptcy case. Judge Christopher Klein’s few words have re-energized the state’s disheartened pension-reform movement – and left the nation’s most-powerful pension fund reeling.

Until now, there has been no way for California cities to get out from underneath the overly generous pension promises they have made to public employees over the past 15 years, the result in part of a pension-increasing bonanza spurred by 1999 legislation championed by the California Public Employees’ Retirement System.

CalPERS has argued successfully in many courts that municipalities cannot reduce pensions for public employees, even on a go-forward basis. That has reduced fiscally sound cities’ ability to shave costs. But CalPERS has taken that argument further by claiming cities must make their full pension payments – even when they no longer can pay their bills.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/04/stockton-ruling-says-pensions-can-be-cut



Ruling says public pensions are like private pensions. In the event of a bankruptcy, they are both fair game to be cut. Maybe the Chicago RE taxes won't double after all.

 

[Sean]

So, work all your life, save for a pension like a responsible person and get fucked when the pols screw up. Lovely.

 

[pointless]

So, work all your life, save for a pension like a responsible person and get fucked when the pols screw up. Lovely.

only in america.

and other third world countries.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yet another incentive to not have a job and live off the state it seems

 

[phrodeau]

That's why we should get rid of Obamacare. It's keeping those pensioners alive longer and cashing more checks.

 

[Que]

So, work all your life, dream about a pension like a pie-in the sky person and get fucked when the corrupt democrats conspire with the corrupt unions to kill the golden goose. Lovely.

FYP, yw.

You don't "save for a pension" you are awarded a pension that was negotiated for you by your union with no thought as to whether a pension of that magnitude was economically possible, given the number of future retirees and the tax base you are working with.

You "save for your retirement' with a 401K. A defined contribution plan is safer for employer and employee. You want to gamble on a defined benefit plan, you can, but like all gambling there are risks.

My brother almost has his 20 years in with the cops. He can (should and probably will) work stupendous hours of overtime the last two or three years and receive a pension GREATER than his actual salary. For life. And he is young and healthy. Will live another 50 years likely.

Nice work if you can get it. Work 20 years, get paid for 70.

He can (should and probably will) do a lateral to fire or another police department. Draw his annual pension, invest that, all while working for another pension. Called double dipping.

There are double dippers that went in at 18, retire at about 60 with pension of a quarter of a million dollars a year for life.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

So, work all your life, save for a pension like a responsible person and get fucked when the pols screw up. Lovely.

like you or your kind has ever worked. government employees are raping the tax payer

 

[NeverEndingMe]

That's why we should get rid of Obamacare. It's keeping those pensioners alive longer and cashing more checks.

dude, we get it you are stupid

 

[phrodeau]

dude, we get it you are stupid

So we all agree that getting rid of Obamacare would be stupid.

 

[pointless]

huh. so there is still someone who pays attention to jenn. well there you go.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

government/union workers putting in the absolute minimum while demanding the maximum payment.

yeah, fuck you assholes get a real job

 

[Amberchgo]

So, work all your life, save for a pension like a responsible person and get fucked when the pols screw up. Lovely.

No screw up. It's pre planned.

 

[Sean Renaud]

IT's not pre-planned at all. How can you even say shit liek that?

 

[Amberchgo]

IT's not pre-planned at all. How can you even say shit liek that?

The pols promise the unions an increase. The union votes for the Dem. The pol never funds the pension.

Next election ... Repeat. The pensions haven't been properly funded in Chicago, Illinois for decades.


Pre planned.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

The pols promise the unions an increase. The union votes for the Dem. The pol never funds the pension.

Next election ... Repeat. The pensions haven't been properly funded in Chicago, Illinois for decades.


Pre planned.

Easy fix. Now they'll just get the money upfront and those who aren't getting their pensions will go on unemployment. Everybody wins!

 

[Sean Renaud]

The pols promise the unions an increase. The union votes for the Dem. The pol never funds the pension.

Next election ... Repeat. The pensions haven't been properly funded in Chicago, Illinois for decades.


Pre planned.

Actually they had been funding the pensions for the most part. But thanks for more bs.

 

[Amberchgo]

Actually they had been funding the pensions for the most part. But thanks for more bs.

I first thought you were clueless. Now I realize you're just living in a fantasy world.

Keep smoking that Hopium.

 

[Amberchgo]

Either way, the state’s systems are clearly underfunded. But it’s an example of how pension systems aren’t just math problems, they’re also judgement problems. Anyway, here’s Keefe:

[T]he state, led by governors and General Assembly members, has never really paid its fair share.

“It’s a matter of never quite putting enough money into the piggy bank,” said Sandor Goldstein, who has been a public pension actuary in Illinois for more than three decades.

You can think of an actuary as an accountant with a crystal ball: They use statistics to try and project how much stuff is going to cost ten, twenty, thirty years down the road – stuff like retirement benefits.

But in Illinois, the state’s pension contributions are discretionary, so governors and lawmakers can basically contribute whatever they feel like. And lawmakers have been ignoring guys like Goldstein for decades.

“I have some reports from these pension commissions that complain about the underfunding back as early as 1945,” he said, before plucking a shopworn paperback report from the shelf of his downtown Chicago office.

Yep. It’s been a problem for most of their existence. And it’s been a problem recently, too. The state’s Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability (aka COGFA) did an analysis of what factors have caused underfunding for FY 2012 and 1996-2012. The biggest cause? “Employer contributions,” i.e. not putting enough money in the piggy bank. Way more than benefits; way more than negative investment returns (PDF).

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-M...inois-A-Long-History-of-Underfunded-Pensions/




Underfunded for decades. But the Dems across the country do not ned to worry about their political survival. They have sheep like Sean to keep pushing the D lever.

 

[someoneyouknow]

government/union workers putting in the absolute minimum while demanding the maximum payment.

yeah, fuck you assholes get a real job

So like the folks at AIG who are suing the taxpayer for handing over $180 billion to protect the company from its own incomprtence?

Or do you mean all the contractors who have jobs solely because of government contracts ?

 

[cjh]

FYP, yw.

You don't "save for a pension" you are awarded a pension that was negotiated for you by your union with no thought as to whether a pension of that magnitude was economically possible, given the number of future retirees and the tax base you are working with.

You "save for your retirement' with a 401K. A defined contribution plan is safer for employer and employee. You want to gamble on a defined benefit plan, you can, but like all gambling there are risks.

My brother almost has his 20 years in with the cops. He can (should and probably will) work stupendous hours of overtime the last two or three years and receive a pension GREATER than his actual salary. For life. And he is young and healthy. Will live another 50 years likely.

Nice work if you can get it. Work 20 years, get paid for 70.

He can (should and probably will) do a lateral to fire or another police department. Draw his annual pension, invest that, all while working for another pension. Called double dipping.

There are double dippers that went in at 18, retire at about 60 with pension of a quarter of a million dollars a year for life.

A pension is part of your compensation package.

It is not a gift.

 

[Stewart_Pidd]

a whoopie pie and Moxie at Hannaford Brothers doesn't have tax bros!

Stew

 

[joelafayette]

......

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Pension plans are non-sustainable. There's tons of evidence of this over the past sixty years, both from private and public sectors. Management knows this but gives concessions because they don't worry about the long-term view. It's nobody's fault really, it's just a bad business model. We need to do away with them. And asking the government to guarantee them is just another house of cards.

The Florida pension is 100% funded.

 

[Que]

Pension plans are non-sustainable. There's tons of evidence of this over the past sixty years, both from private and public sectors. Management knows this but gives concessions because they don't worry about the long-term view. It's nobody's fault really, it's just a bad business model. We need to do away with them. And asking the government to guarantee them is just another house of cards.

This is a fact. Unions that negotiate them are playing hot potato with future retirees benefits.

The Florida pension is 100% funded.

No it isn't, unless they have purchased an actual annuity for each and every retiree. All pension plans depend on the modest payments of future workers continuing to grow in number, the projected ROI of any actual funds in the pension fund, the projected number of workers that will both become vested and live long enough to collect benefits and the the projected life expectancy of your particular pool of workers, based on actuarial studies.

It is possible that Florida could be currently well-funded even to the extent that more has been put aside than is expected it would need to based on the above and still fail. All it would take is some modest changes in the typical potential retirees eating habits over the next 20 years, much less any major breakthroughs in the treatment of cancer, heart disease, and diabetes.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

This is a fact. Unions that negotiate them are playing hot potato with future retirees benefits.



No it isn't, unless they have purchased an actual annuity for each and every retiree. All pension plans depend on the modest payments of future workers continuing to grow in number, the projected ROI of any actual funds in the pension fund, the projected number of workers that will both become vested and live long enough to collect benefits and the the projected life expectancy of your particular pool of workers, based on actuarial studies.

It is possible that Florida could be currently well-funded even to the extent that more has been put aside than is expected it would need to based on the above and still fail. All it would take is some modest changes in the typical potential retirees eating habits over the next 20 years, much less any major breakthroughs in the treatment of cancer, heart disease, and diabetes.

Not a problem. Should spending habits change, employees will just take that money upfront.