The non-public public lands.

[Ishmael]

More and more of the nations public lands are being closed off using various devices.

Fee for film.


And while the plight of these filmmakers doesn't particularly bring a tear to my eye, it does seem somewhat counter-productive in that most of those films end up as specials on PBS.

However this little tid-bit is merely the tip of a growing ice berg. All across the nation access to public lands are being closed down or restricted as part of some sort of administrative policy. Roads are being purposely 'cut', while camping, hunting and fishing, and just backpacking restrictions are being put into place. All lands are effected but the greatest impact is in the western states where the bulk of the land is federally owned.

From the Nat'l Forests, to the monuments, to BLM land, and even the Nat'l Parks are being effected. There is a massive conversion pf 'public' to virtually 'private' land taking place over all the federally owned properties. And while there can be no doubt that this is as a result of administrative policy, no broad policy statement has ever been articulated. Rather each incremental closure is justified with an isolated excuse (fire danger, erosion danger, jumping meadow mouse danger, tortoise danger, etc.).

The western states, those most effected, are beginning to fight back with Utah leading the charge but so far to no real effect at all. These lands are rapidly being removed from the inventory as having any purpose whatsoever, be that recreational or economic.

Anyone have any idea's as to the reason?

Ishmael

 

[Queersetti]

FEMA's got to put those concentration camps somewhere!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The Lords of the manor forbid hunting on their lands.



The Return of the Primitive

There are also green initiatives to begin cutting into the suburbs and turn them into green zones, something which the President and the Cherokee fully approve of for it forces the tax base back into the cities in order for them to continue their good works in the name of Social Justice. When they call for more money to invest in infrastructure, they do not mean better roads to and from the suburbs, they mean more ACORN-type infrastructure.

[Good to see you posting, you had me a little worried; it's been a while.]

 

[RobDownSouth]

FEMA's got to put those concentration camps somewhere!

Not to mention space for the storage depots to hold all those guns that President Obama intends to confiscate #AnyDayNow.

 

[Ishmael]

The Lords of the manor forbid hunting on their lands.



The Return of the Primitive

There are also green initiatives to begin cutting into the suburbs and turn them into green zones, something which the President and the Cherokee fully approve of for it forces the tax base back into the cities in order for them to continue their good works in the name of Social Justice. When they call for more money to invest in infrastructure, they do not mean better roads to and from the suburbs, they mean more ACORN-type infrastructure.

[Good to see you posting, you had me a little worried; it's been a while.]

I see the hand of the 'Greens' here as well, but not exclusively.

On top of closing down what exists, the feds are in the process of co-opting more and more lands to federal control. Namely the recent addition of the Organ Mtns Nat'l Monument to the inventory of properties.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Just remember, the Greens are watermelons, so any control they can assume, they will, for control is a good thing.

They want clean and pristine, a return to Eden will please Gaia and Gaia pleased will halt her drive to GlowBall Warning and the extinction of man created in her image but subverted by Mammon...

A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States...,
John P. Holdren
White House Office of Science and Technology Director

What we are left with is Attila and the Witch-Doctor...

 

[Lancecastor]

Anyone have any idea's as to the reason?

Ishmael

Most Likely reasons:

1. line item budget reductions;

2. internally tagged for future resource development.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Most Likely reasons:

1. line item budget reductions;

2. internally tagged for future resource development.

Man, you are so far off base...



Can you see Alaska from your front porch

 

[Lancecastor]

Man, you are so far off base...



Can you see Alaska from your front porch

I know, I know....silly thinking on my part.

In reality....after about ten days and 50 pages of nutbar posts, Ishmael will do the "big reveal" about Secret Civilian Militia Torture Compounds Outsourced to Martians.

 

[Ishmael]

Most Likely reasons:

1. line item budget reductions;

2. internally tagged for future resource development.

I absolutely agree with your first reason. They are incapable of taking care of the lands they have due to budgetary constraints. But that flies in the face of accumulating more lands.

Your second reason is weak though. While resource sequestration is a nominally reasonable excuse that does not explain the restrictions for recreational uses. Further to what purpose should resources be sequestered? I can see strategic materials, but certainly not the renewable's.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

I know, I know....silly thinking on my part.

In reality....after about ten days and 50 pages of nutbar posts, Ishmael will do the "big reveal" about Secret Civilian Militia Torture Compounds Outsourced to Martians.

*chuckle* Really? I can think of at least 3 posters off the top of my head that are going to beat me to that conspiracy.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

If 1. was valid, then they would simply raise fees...



... wouldn't need Congress, just pen, phone and the next Lerner on deck.

 

[Lancecastor]

*chuckle* Really? I can think of at least 3 posters off the top of my head that are going to beat me to that conspiracy.

Ishmael

3 is low.

Stewardship of Federal Land is a big topic and there are lots of details, but I maintain the position that short term budget line item juggling and long term resource management are the two most likely fundamental issues in terms of government rationale for their policies and activities.

For people who actually want to read about the topic versus taking out of their ass (likely fewer than 3):

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/interior/reforming-federal-land-management

 

[about_average]

Don't agree with fees for news coverage, but I have no issues with fees for commercial filming purposes.

 

[Ishmael]

3 is low.

Stewardship of Federal Land is a big topic and there are lots of details, but I maintain the position that short term budget line item juggling and long term resource management are the two most likely fundamental issues in terms of government rationale for their policies and activities.

For people who actually want to read about the topic versus taking out of their ass (likely fewer than 3):

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/interior/reforming-federal-land-management

First of all I've read all of that before and from various sources. And I've already conceded that financial considerations are a part of the reasons. I will also point out that we are NOT discussing 25% of the nations lands but more on the order to 33+%. The areas included are HUGE!!

Further financial considerations do NOT cover all of the instances. For example the Feds have recently attempted to shut down fishing within the Biscayne Nat's Seashore Monument. For what reason? The state of FL enforces all fishing regulations within that particular property at no expense to the Feds. (And they do so quite effectively.)

In the western forests they have shut down the removal of dead fall significantly contributing to the accumulation of overburden and significantly contribut8ing to the severity of the forest fires. Not only is this dead fall a lost resource to begin with, the removal permits constitute revenue and the cessation of which constitutes poor land management.

Ishmael

 

[Lancecastor]

I wasn't referring to you as a non-reader....

 

[KingOrfeo]

More and more of the nations public lands are being closed off using various devices.

Public land is not like public streets. It is not supposed to be there for just anybody to use any time.

There is a massive conversion pf 'public' to virtually 'private' land taking place over all the federally owned properties.

You are utterly confused as to what those terms mean.

 

[BotanyBoy]

=\

I don't have any problems going into any of the public land around me....unless it's on fuckin' fire, in which case I'm glad they close it off so I don't ignorantly find myself getting cooked.

I don't even really understand what you're all bent out of shape about...."Sometimes BLM and state parks are closed of!!!" well...no shit. Things happen so they close off areas to the public...nothing new there.

I'm not saying much about the management practices but as far as public lands being private now? Tha fuck are you talking about?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Have they cut back any personnel? salaries? benefits? spending on used military toys? conferences? junkets? offices? bonuses?



So don't give me this crap about spending cuts. DC uses baseline budgeting so any "spending cuts" are only in rate of growth.

This is about the religion of Gaia and her vengeance, aka GlowBall Warning.

They want virgin lands, even if it means that they burn or natural populations succumb to disease and starvation, because that's "natural" and man is not part of nature, ergo, he must be removed from nature. This has noting to do with mismanagement and everything to do with ideology. Oh, they'll make the case that they have no choice, but all I have to say is that all that big talk is doodly-squat.

Vinny Gambini: Let me show you something.
[he holds up a playing card, with the face toward Billy]
Vinny Gambini: He's going to show you the bricks. He'll show you they got straight sides. He'll show you how they got the right shape. He'll show them to you in a very special way, so that they appear to have everything a brick should have. But there's one thing he's not gonna show you.
[turns the card, so that its edge is toward Billy]
Vinny Gambini: When you look at the bricks from the right angle, they're as thin as this playing card. His whole case is an illusion, a magic trick. It has to be an illusion, 'cause you're innocent. Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini, especially this one. Give me a chance, one chance. Let me question the first witness. If after that point, you don't think that I'm the best man for the job, fire me then and there. I'll leave quietly, no grudges. All I ask is for that one chance. I think you should give it to me.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Have they cut back any personnel? salaries? benefits? spending on used military toys? conferences? junkets? offices? bonuses?



So don't give me this crap about spending cuts. DC uses baseline budgeting so any "spending cuts" are only in rate of growth.

This is about the religion of Gaia and her vengeance, aka GlowBall Warning.

They want virgin lands, even if it means that they burn or natural populations succumb to disease and starvation, because that's "natural" and man is not part of nature, ergo, he must be removed from nature. This has noting to do with mismanagement and everything to do with ideology. Oh, they'll make the case that they have no choice, but all I have to say is that all that big talk is doodly-squat.

Vinny Gambini: Let me show you something.
[he holds up a playing card, with the face toward Billy]
Vinny Gambini: He's going to show you the bricks. He'll show you they got straight sides. He'll show you how they got the right shape. He'll show them to you in a very special way, so that they appear to have everything a brick should have. But there's one thing he's not gonna show you.
[turns the card, so that its edge is toward Billy]
Vinny Gambini: When you look at the bricks from the right angle, they're as thin as this playing card. His whole case is an illusion, a magic trick. It has to be an illusion, 'cause you're innocent. Nobody - I mean nobody - pulls the wool over the eyes of a Gambini, especially this one. Give me a chance, one chance. Let me question the first witness. If after that point, you don't think that I'm the best man for the job, fire me then and there. I'll leave quietly, no grudges. All I ask is for that one chance. I think you should give it to me.

Hua? LOL you just making random shit up again 4est?

 

[Que]

Public land is not like public streets. It is not supposed to be there for just anybody to use any time.



You are utterly confused as to what those terms mean.

Yes it is, going all the way back to English Common Law and the right of free passage. What you do not understand is what closing access does to access to other areas. In Ish's state and mine you can close off HUGE areas with a few closures. People have land and cabins on private land that you cannot get to if the feds restrict access.

Even if YOU own the land you cannot suddenly bar access to people that must traverse your land to get to theirs. It is called easment by prescription.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Hua? LOL you just making random shit up again 4est?

Never stops, does it?
:nods:

#WelcomeBackMyFriendsToTheDerpThatNeverEnds.....

 

[Lancecastor]

Even if YOU own the land you cannot suddenly bar access to people that must traverse your land to get to theirs. It is called easment by prescription.

What you have described is an Easement of Necessity.

An Easement by Prescription is Adverse Possession or commonly called "Squatters Rights", which is a different bundle of land rights.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Yes it is, going all the way back to English Common Law and the right of free passage. What you do not understand is what closing access does to access to other areas. In Ish's state and mine you can close off HUGE areas with a few closures. People have land and cabins on private land that you cannot get to if the feds restrict access.

Even if YOU own the land you cannot suddenly bar access to people that must traverse your land to get to theirs. It is called easment by prescription.

This is exactly what the President did during the last government shutdown when he was precluding veteran access to their memorial, children's tours of the White House and access to private businesses located in National Parks. He even shut down the road to Mount Rushmore.



That's how petty ideology can make government.

 

[RobDownSouth]

What you have described is an Easement of Necessity.

An Easement by Prescription is Adverse Possession or commonly called "Squatters Rights", which is a different bundle of land rights.

Another day, #AnotherQueerbaitLie