Don't listen to neocons; Russia is no threat to the U.S.

KingOrfeo

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Michael Lind writes:

Saturday, Aug 2, 2014 11:30 AM EDT

Beware the neocon exaggerators: They were wrong on Russia and the Mideast before — and they’re wrong about the threat now

Stop worrying about Putin: Russia is a second-tier economic and military power, and not a threat to U.S. interests

Michael Lind


As a former neoconservative, I am particularly sensitive to “threat inflation.” I spent the early part of my career as a neoconservative in the 1980s and early 1990s, when “neoconservative” still meant Truman-Kennedy-Johnson Cold War liberal rather than bloviating Fox News militarist. Before I broke with the neocons as they moved right in the early 1990s, I rose through the ranks of the second generation of neoconservatism to become executive editor of The National Interest, the foreign policy magazine published by the late Irving Kristol, the “godfather of the neoconservatives” and the father of the Weekly Standard’s William Kristol.

In hindsight, the neocons, along with many others on the left, right and center, were right about the tyranny and corruption of Marxist-Leninist regimes. But following the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union, it became clear that the leading neoconservative foreign policy experts had greatly exaggerated the Soviet military threat.

By means of public pressure groups like the Committee on the Present Danger and “Team B” — a group of neoconservative foreign policy experts including Paul Wolfowitz assigned by CIA Director George H.W. Bush to second-guess CIA analysts on the question of Soviet power — the neocons in the 1970s and early 1980s convinced much of the American public and the policymaking elite that the USSR was on the verge of world domination, not internal dissolution. Here is my fellow former 1980s hawk Fareed Zakaria, looking back in 2003:

In retrospect, Team B’s conclusions were wildly off the mark. Describing the Soviet Union, in 1976, as having “a large and expanding Gross National Product,” it predicted that it would modernize and expand its military at an awesome pace. For example, it predicted that the Backfire bomber “probably will be produced in substantial numbers, with perhaps 500 aircraft off the line by early 1984.” In fact, the Soviets had 235 in 1984.

The reality was that even the CIA’s own estimates — savaged as too low by Team B — were, in retrospect, gross exaggerations. In 1989, the CIA published an internal review of its threat assessments from 1974 to 1986 and came to the conclusion that every year it had “substantially overestimated” the Soviet threat along all dimensions. For example, in 1975 the CIA forecast that within 10 years the Soviet Union would replace 90 percent of its long-range bombers and missiles. In fact, by 1985, the Soviet Union had been able to replace less than 60 percent of them.

A decade after the Soviet Union collapsed, many leading neocons — including members of the original “Team B” exercise such as Paul Wolfowitz — were at it again. They created a new version of the Committee on the Present Danger, called the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). Promoting “regime change” in Iraq, they capitalized on post-9/11 hysteria, claiming that there was credible evidence that Saddam Hussein might have weapons of mass destruction that might — notice the train of “mights” — be used somehow in the U.S. (I attended one event at which a neocon claimed that Saddam would soon have drones that could bomb the U.S. from Mesopotamia). After George W. Bush and his neoconservative appointees toppled Saddam and turned Iraq into an ungovernable chaos, it turned out that the Iraqi WMDs had never existed, outside of propaganda by neocons inside and outside of the Bush administration. The neocons had abused intelligence data to inflate the Iraqi threat in the same way that the neocons of Team B had done to inflate the Soviet threat.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. (Or, in George W. Bush’s version: There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”)

So before we rush to wage Cold War II on the basis of Russia’s limited territorial revanchism along its borders in Ukraine and Georgia, let’s look at the data to see whether Putin’s Russia is really the dire threat to European security and world peace and American interests that many are insisting that it is.

In July 1991, shortly before its dissolution, the Soviet Union had a population of more than 290 million people. The U.S. at the time of the 1990 census had a population of 248 million.

Today’s Russian federation, deprived of the republics of Central Asia, the Baltics, Byelorus and Ukraine, has a population of 142 million, according to the CIA Factbook. Despite a recent uptick, at present Russian population growth is negative. Meanwhile, the U.S. today has more than 318 million people.

In 1991, the Soviet population was around 14 percent larger than that of the U.S. Today, the U.S. population is about 66 percent larger than that of the Russian Federation.

What about the relative size and strength of Russia and the European Union? In some circles, there seems to be concern that a poor, weak European Union could be terrorized into submission by a looming Russian colossus. But that perception, too, is a relic of the Cold War.

In 1990, following the incorporation of former East Germany into the Federal Republic of Germany, the population of the European Union was 273 million — slightly smaller than that of the USSR of the time. By 2013, thanks to successive rounds of accession by new states, the EU had a population of nearly 507 million — dwarfing the 142 million of Russia even more than the U.S. does with its 318 million people.

The truth is that post-Soviet Russia is different in kind from the Soviet Union. The USSR was a superpower with a population and economy rivalling that of Western Europe and the U.S. Vladimir Putin’s Russia is a second-tier regional power, roughly equivalent in its economic weight and military might with any one of the four other European powers: Germany, France, Britain and Italy (five great powers, if Turkey, a member of NATO and a candidate for accession to the EU, is counted as a European power).

Russia’s economy, amounting to 2.5 trillion dollars according to the purchasing power parity (PPP) standard, is significantly smaller than that of Germany at 3.27 trillion. The Russian economy is comparable to that of the UK (2.4 trillion) and France (2.3 trillion) and somewhat larger than the economy of Italy (1.8 trillion).

But the fact that Russia has an economy the same size as those of Britain or France with more than twice as many people means that the median Russian is much poorer. Russia’s per capita income is only $18,100 — higher than that of Turkey ($15,300) but much lower than the per capita income of Germany ($39,500), the UK ($37,300), France ($35,700) and Italy ($29,600).

It’s true that Russia has inherited the world’s second-largest nuclear arsenal from the defunct Soviet Union. But unlike the Soviet Union, which spent 15 percent or more of its national budget on defense in its final years, Putin’s Russia spends about the same share of its GDP on defense that the U.S. does — between 4 and 5 percent. Both the U.S. and Russia spend more on the military than do the other major European powers, among which Britain (2.5 percent) and France (2.3 percent) spend the most.

Because today’s Russia is so much smaller than today’s U.S., similar defense spending as a percentage of GDP buys much less military for Russians than for Americans. The Russian military budget, estimated to be about $70 billion, is dwarfed by that of the combined EU countries ($236 billion) and the U.S. (more than $600 billion).

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), in 2013 the U.S. accounted for 36.6 percent of global military spending. Russia accounted for a paltry 5 percent — slightly more than France (3.5 percent), Britain (3.3 percent) and Germany (2.8 percent). Even if the U.S. were to completely abandon its European allies, Russia’s European neighbors would have more than enough combined economic and military resources to thwart the Russian regime if it tried anything more than limited territorial revanchism, of the kind it has pursued in Crimea and Ukraine.

President Obama was right last March when he said, “Russia is a regional power that is threatening some of its immediate neighbors — not out of strength but out of weakness. They don’t pose the No. 1 national security threat to the United States. I continue to be much more concerned when it comes to our security with the prospect of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan.” Because the likelihood that a nuclear bomb deployed by terrorists will destroy Manhattan is next to nil, the U.S. is more secure than it has been at any time since the second half of the nineteenth century, notwithstanding tensions with China and Russia and upheavals in the Middle East.

A second Cold War is possible — but if Russia were to play a role, it would probably be as a junior sidekick to China, in a reversal of the Soviet-Chinese communist alliance of World War I. For now, the next time that a neoconservative hawk claims that because of Putin’s dismemberment of Ukraine the world is facing the greatest crisis since 1939 or 1914 or the Fall of Rome or whatever, you should ask two questions: Why was Team B so wrong about the Soviet threat? And where are Saddam’s WM’s?
 
There's a great BBC documentary called The Power of Nightmares, has a lot about Team B in it. It's on youtube, three one hour parts. Highly recommended.
 
I will likely never say this to you again:

Thanks for the cut and paste!
 
You were wrong about Lenin, Hitler, and Castro. I've tried to tell you. Lind is a waste of time.

What have they got to do with this?

What matters -- and can you contradict it? -- is:

The Russian military budget, estimated to be about $70 billion, is dwarfed by that of the combined EU countries ($236 billion) and the U.S. (more than $600 billion).
 
everything is a threat to neocons ; gay marriage, abortion, women in the military, homosexuals in the military, a woman's right to chose, science, the enviornment, non-christians practicing their religon, sex education...the list is endless
 
everything is a threat to neocons ; gay marriage, abortion, women in the military, homosexuals in the military, a woman's right to chose, science, the enviornment, non-christians practicing their religon, sex education...the list is endless

Nah, you're thinking of social conservatives. Neocons are all about American military hegemony and spreading democracy and capitalism by force of arms.
 
Russia may be a second-tier nation, but the US is turning into a third-world one. We'll all be speaking Cyrillic any day!
 
Fear of Russia is so last month. They're all about being scared of IS now.
 
jesus! don't say that! if they think they're pushovers they'll just want a war even more. hell, beating up on shitty countries is the only way we can win wars anymore and that's a 50/50 proposition at best.
 
lol look at vettey just iching to defend every reason to go start as many wars as he can. His welfare must be running a little thin after O shut Iraq down....

Is that the real reason you hate O so much vetty, did you get your blood money cut off? Cant afford extra cans of corn without it?

Could you be more of a neocon?
 
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Fear of Russia is so last month. They're all about being scared of IS now.

Their latest replacement 'boogeyman', no doubt.

They haven't been able to find a replacement for the last couple of decades since the USSR folded.

I think fear is only half of it. The other half is that they need a stand-in country/regime/religious sect/whatever to go with their "What? They're different than us? They're evil! Bomb them!" rhetoric, and they haven't found decent one yet.
 
Their latest replacement 'boogeyman', no doubt.

They haven't been able to find a replacement for the last couple of decades since the USSR folded.

I think fear is only half of it. The other half is that they need a stand-in country/regime/religious sect/whatever to go with their "What? They're different than us? They're evil! Bomb them!" rhetoric, and they haven't found decent one yet.

I nominate Tonga. At least the damage we do will be limited by its remoteness and size.
 
At this time, Russia is a threat only to their neighbors. They would not last a week with a real military power.
 
They have agreed to a mutual military cooperation agreement with the Chinese, as we continue to hollow out our military.

Once again:

The Russian military budget, estimated to be about $70 billion, is dwarfed by that of the combined EU countries ($236 billion) and the U.S. (more than $600 billion).

It could stand a lot of "hollowing" and still be the biggest in the world, and not in any way threatened by Russia's or China's or both together.

They are not our friends, they are a potential threat to our interests anywhere in the world. They always have been.

Actually, the U.S. and Russia were always on pretty good terms until 1917.
 
They have agreed to a mutual military cooperation agreement with the Chinese, as we continue to hollow out our military. They are not our friends, they are a potential threat to our interests anywhere in the world. They always have been.

At this time they are not. They have no Navy to speak of. They may be able to put 2 carriers to sea but there would be little chance of them surviving past the out break of hostilities. Their Air Force is 2 to 3 generations behind the top military powers of the world and would not last a week as an effective fighting force. Their ground combat equipment is better but still no better than the top of the line equipment that was utterly destroyed in Iraq. The only thing they have is manpower and without an Air Force and Navy they can not move them anywhere but to their neighbors.
 
At this time they are not. They have no Navy to speak of. They may be able to put 2 carriers to sea but there would be little chance of them surviving past the out break of hostilities. Their Air Force is 2 to 3 generations behind the top military powers of the world and would not last a week as an effective fighting force. Their ground combat equipment is better but still no better than the top of the line equipment that was utterly destroyed in Iraq. The only thing they have is manpower and without an Air Force and Navy they can not move them anywhere but to their neighbors.

The threat of Russia is not whether or not the US can kick their militarily ass. Certainly it's no contest in a conventional war. The "threat" is more against American interests. The Russians have been increasing their influence in the Middle East due to Putin outplaying Obama on the world stage. They hold a veto in security counsel. Those two realities combined are formidable. They can and do influence regional events substantially.

They also pose a potential military threat to eastern European countries. Not because of their unyielding military might, but the reluctance of the EU to use it's military assets.

Most of the continent is reliant on Russia's natural gas supplies continuing to flow unabated. That's why they have been uncooperative thus far in hardening sanctions regarding the Ukrainian situation.
 
A year and a half ago the right wing was giving Putin a collective blowjob


funny how things change
 
The threat of Russia is not whether or not the US can kick their militarily ass. Certainly it's no contest in a conventional war. The "threat" is more against American interests. The Russians have been increasing their influence in the Middle East due to Putin outplaying Obama on the world stage. They hold a veto in security counsel. Those two realities combined are formidable. They can and do influence regional events substantially.

They also pose a potential military threat to eastern European countries. Not because of their unyielding military might, but the reluctance of the EU to use it's military assets.

Most of the continent is reliant on Russia's natural gas supplies continuing to flow unabated. That's why they have been uncooperative thus far in hardening sanctions regarding the Ukrainian situation.

The Russians can do little to influence the Middle east as it has been shown that their equipment is for shit. In other parts of the world they can exert some pressure but threatening to cut off oil and natural gas, but the Middle East has all they need. The Russians can pose no threat to anyone but their neighbors if people resist them. If they do not it is not the power of Russia, but the meekness of the others.

The Russians can recover but it would take 10-20 years and much more money than they currently spend to do it.
 
The threat of Russia is not whether or not the US can kick their militarily ass. Certainly it's no contest in a conventional war. The "threat" is more against American interests. The Russians have been increasing their influence in the Middle East due to Putin outplaying Obama on the world stage. They hold a veto in security counsel. Those two realities combined are formidable. They can and do influence regional events substantially.

They also pose a potential military threat to eastern European countries. Not because of their unyielding military might, but the reluctance of the EU to use it's military assets.

Most of the continent is reliant on Russia's natural gas supplies continuing to flow unabated. That's why they have been uncooperative thus far in hardening sanctions regarding the Ukrainian situation.

Asides from the threat to eastern European countries, the rest of this is fictional nonsense.
 
The Russians can do little to influence the Middle east as it has been shown that their equipment is for shit. In other parts of the world they can exert some pressure but threatening to cut off oil and natural gas, but the Middle East has all they need. The Russians can pose no threat to anyone but their neighbors if people resist them. If they do not it is not the power of Russia, but the meekness of the others.

The Russians can recover but it would take 10-20 years and much more money than they currently spend to do it.

agree 100%. The Russians would end up hurting themselves more.
 
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