New Witness to Michael Brown Shooting

[RjThoughts]

Okay, I'll bite. What the hell are you talking about? By science, surely you're not talking about the brief amount of time it takes for a suspect who is fleeing from a cop to come to a stop, or the brief amount of time it takes for a suspect who is advancing on a cop to come to a stop. Surely that's not what you mean.

Some cop types and it seems you, too, believe that a suspect NEEDS to stop immediately, like in cartoons. Science blows that up. There's NO justification AT ALL for shooting a suspect in the back with their hands up. NONE

 

[toubab]

You guys are arguing "what if"

There has not been a peep from the other side.

Holder is providing another FBI pathologist, in addition to the local guy, for a 2nd opinion.

The truth will come out.

Another what if. What if the second autopsy conflicts with the first? Then what? Where's the truth?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Another what if. What if the second autopsy conflicts with the first? Then what? Where's the truth?

Vetty's already told us only he knows "the truth".
Garbage Can will, of course, back up Vetty on this, as he usually does.

 

[toubab]

Some cop types and it seems you, too, believe that a suspect NEEDS to stop immediately, like in cartoons. Science blows that up. There's NO justification AT ALL for shooting a suspect in the back with their hands up. NONE

This is silly. So a suspect can keep running as long as he has his hands up? No need to answer.

 

[RjThoughts]

This is silly. So a suspect can keep running as long as he has his hands up? No need to answer.

So a cop can shoot a fleeing unarmed suspect because of fear? Don't answer that.

 

[garbage can]

Vetty's already told us only he knows "the truth".
Garbage Can will, of course, back up Vetty on this, as he usually does.

As usual, you're pissing into the wind.

 

[toubab]

So a cop can shoot a fleeing unarmed suspect because of fear? Don't answer that.

You really have a problem with reading comprehension, because I've already answered that.

 

[Wrong Element]

So, is the cop black? The stories I saw on NBC, CNN and CBS don't give his race. If he is black, then this "excellent" witness Tiffany Mitchell is, in reality, a really shitty witness. Why in the hell would she lie about that? The kid isn't coming back to life regardless, why wouldn't you want the real asshole who did it, to pay for it? Sad story, we all need to get our heads out of our asses to some degree.

She would lie because people do that for more reasons than there are stars in the sky.

Nice call there, geniuses.

Yes, if a suspect is surrendering he should not be fleeing from an officer of the law or advancing on an officer of the law, whether he has his hands up or not.

If Brown ran because he was afraid of the Ferguson police, at least he died with the satisfaction of knowing he was right.

 

[RobDownSouth]

As usual, you're pissing into the wind.

The truth hurts. Maybe not as much as when Vetty reams you without lube, but it still hurts.

 

[about_average]

And the kid was shot multiple times, found wearing shorts and a tshirt, unarmed.

It doesn't matter.
If Brown was rushing the cop, was significantly larger than the cop (or the cop was injured in such a way that would lessen his ability to defend himself) then he was entirely justified in shooting. As would be any citizen.

Now that's bullshit. The cop should fire only if there's IMMANENT danger.

No, that's not how it works. It's been posted twice in this thread with quotes that if a suspect has committed a felony and the police have a reasonable expectation that the person is a threat to another person or the community in general, then they are justified in shooting, even a fleeing suspect.
That's in general.

In this case probably not so much, especially if they knew who he was.

 

[Ishmael]

People, here, in Ferguson, and some in the press, are grousing about the fact that the officer's official statements have not been made public. They won't be and there is a reason for that. And if you bother to notice the 'official' statements by witnesses have not been made public either. Those statements are like a tapestry, they will converge on some points, diverge on others. The investigators are going to be going back to the witnesses and the officer in an attempt to resolve those divergences. They are not going to make those statements public so that the concerned parties can get their respective stories together like memorizing lines in a play. This is standard procedure.

There is a point that has been overlooked by those posting here so far and that is the report that the first shot was fired IN the patrol car. There has been no official statement, as far as I know, verifying this. And the forensic evidence has not, and will not, be made public until the matter is resolved or goes to trial and that is for the same reasons I mentioned above. However, if the first shot was fired in the patrol car that fact goes a long way to corroborate the officer's story that is being circulated.

Ishmael

 

[Beco]

You guys are arguing "what if"

There has not been a peep from the other side.

Holder is providing another FBI pathologist, in addition to the local guy, for a 2nd opinion.

The truth will come out.

It may not matter....

 

[Disgustipated]

So a cop fired at an unarmed person in his own patrol car?

 

[nowisthetime]

It doesn't matter.
If Brown was rushing the cop, was significantly larger than the cop (or the cop was injured in such a way that would lessen his ability to defend himself) then he was entirely justified in shooting. As would be any citizen.

No, that's not how it works. It's been posted twice in this thread with quotes that if a suspect has committed a felony and the police have a reasonable expectation that the person is a threat to another person or the community in general, then they are justified in shooting, even a fleeing suspect.
That's in general.

In this case probably not so much, especially if they knew who he was.

Multiple times? That's assuming if he even attacked him. Interesting that these cops are so trigger happy when it comes to the lives of young black men. They don't see them as human. Why was his body left four hours on the street like a dog without EMS being called? All for not walking on a sidewalk?

I was talking to my mother who came to America in the 1970s as a young woman. She has noticed there has been such an increase in racial tension in America that she thought would have went away.

 

[Balladeer08]

There's no justification for the cop for shooting a suspect in the back. He was fleeing, yes, but the cop was NOT in fear for his life at that time, right?

I don't know how they apply the fleeing felon rule in Missouri, so I won't comment on it.

Does anyone else KNOW? (That's like factually, not what you want to believe)

 

[Balladeer08]

Please drop the condescension. I am not a transnational progressive or 'neo-marxist' as some would say.

Are you a cop? Or have a cop in your family?

I'm an ex-Deputy Sheriff, California P.O.S.T. Advanced Certificate, Bachelor's in Criminology, maintainted and E.M.T. Certification for ten years, F.B.I. certificates for fingerprints, firearms, gas... I was an above-average cop, or at least I tried to be. Also my father was a Chief of Police. I'm now in my 60's, so I know a lot about cops, over a lot of years. And a lot about the law, both in theory and in practice.

And the question wasn't condescension, there was nothing in your answer to indicate that you knew what I was talking about, and many people who do not know the term.

So what label, if any, would you apply to yourself?

 

[Balladeer08]

Now that's bullshit. The cop should fire only if there's IMMANENT danger.

We have a word a lot like that in English: IMMINENT.

(Maybe the guy who said size doesn't matter will now weigh in on spelling?)

8)

 

[Balladeer08]

Right, the character of the person doesn't matter. Shooting is the last resort they teach you in police academy.

Which Police Academy did you go to? Or did you just watch the movies?

 

[RjThoughts]

We have a word a lot like that in English: IMMINENT.

(Maybe the guy who said size doesn't matter will now weigh in on spelling?)

8)

I'm in IT, so I lean on spell check LOL

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Balladeer08]

I'm in IT, so I lean on spell check LOL

Spell check is an enemy of the people. Or at least the people who think literacy matters. 8)

For me, it is like someone playing the wrong note on a piano. It just makes me cringe.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I'm an ex-Deputy Sheriff, California P.O.S.T. Advanced Certificate, Bachelor's in Criminology, maintainted and E.M.T. Certification for ten years, F.B.I. certificates for fingerprints, firearms, gas... I was an above-average cop, or at least I tried to be. Also my father was a Chief of Police. I'm now in my 60's, so I know a lot about cops, over a lot of years. And a lot about the law, both in theory and in practice.

And the question wasn't condescension, there was nothing in your answer to indicate that you knew what I was talking about, and many people who do not know the term.

So what label, if any, would you apply to yourself?

Oh how cool, a real life former cop!

How many "perps" did you kill in your career?
How many times did you fire your weapon at a "perp"?
Were you "old school" or were you able to wear all that militarized stuff that departments loaded up on post-9/11?
How many riots did you handle?

 

[toubab]

People, here, in Ferguson, and some in the press, are grousing about the fact that the officer's official statements have not been made public. They won't be and there is a reason for that. And if you bother to notice the 'official' statements by witnesses have not been made public either. Those statements are like a tapestry, they will converge on some points, diverge on others. The investigators are going to be going back to the witnesses and the officer in an attempt to resolve those divergences. They are not going to make those statements public so that the concerned parties can get their respective stories together like memorizing lines in a play. This is standard procedure.

There is a point that has been overlooked by those posting here so far and that is the report that the first shot was fired IN the patrol car. There has been no official statement, as far as I know, verifying this. And the forensic evidence has not, and will not, be made public until the matter is resolved or goes to trial and that is for the same reasons I mentioned above. However, if the first shot was fired in the patrol car that fact goes a long way to corroborate the officer's story that is being circulated.

Ishmael

There's no need to release a copy of the cop's official statement, but I think it would be wise of him to have his attorney make a statement to the public giving basic facts as to what happened, and why the cop felt compelled to shoot Brown dead.

All the witnesses agree the first shot was fired while the officer was still in his vehicle, and Brown was outside the vehicle. I will be very surprised if that turns out not to be the case.

 

[RjThoughts]

There's no need to release a copy of the cop's official statement, but I think it would be wise of him to have his attorney make a statement to the public giving basic facts as to what happened, and why the cop felt compelled to shoot Brown dead.

All the witnesses agree the first shot was fired while the officer was still in his vehicle, and Brown was outside the vehicle. I will be very surprised if that turns out not to be the case.

But the cop released "His" side of the story on Facebook.

To wit: I don't believe for one bit that it was him that wrote it, reads like a teenager did, and for someone hiding, that's dumb to do.