FAWC 5: Line, Please!

[sr71plt]

To those I haven't commented on, it's either because I couldn't really think of anything worthwhile to say or others already made the same points I had so I didn't want the comments section to sound like an echo chamber.

Yes, but, aren't you likely to give more credence to a comment you hear from more than one than from just one?

Thanks, though--from all of us, I'm sure--for reading them and giving some assessments.

 

[jomar]

Pretty much ditto.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

The editing thing is tricky.

I have the benefit of having an editor who isn't in the competition. If she were, however, I would feel remiss about it, I think. Not only because I need all of the help I can get, and more, but because she is my friend and I enjoy our process. It's fun, almost a tradition at this point, at least when we have time.

But I do see how it defeats the anonymous thing. Which is a cool part of FAWC. Still, I have to wonder how anonymous it really is.

I know at least five of the people dead-to-rights, because I like their styles and they are distinctive. Now I am never certain, and I don't pull punches because I like someone, even if I suspect--and I hope they do me the same courtesy--but the fact of the matter is, we aren't starting from equal footing, regardless. So the anonymity thing isn't the shield of ubiquity it seems.

One author I was positive of by the third sentence. It wouldn't have matter if I had edited this person's work; I knew it all the same.

Some I would bet large sums of money on.

Others, I've never read and have no clue about.

I give the same honest critique regardless and I try my best to vote my objective opinion. I gave a five to a story that I did not enjoy, but was incredibly well done, and a four to a story that I loved but that had some issues.

I'm no angel, but in a contest where there are no cash prizes, I'm pretty hard to buy off with simple familiarity.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't mind people having their stories edited, even by someone also participating. As long as no one spills the beans, it's between the two of them if they want to "lift the veil." This is all for fun and personal growth, right?

If I had had time I would have had my story edited, it certainly needed it. And my editor is a genius. She wasn't participating in this FAWC, but she has in the past.

Edited stories start off with two high 5s, and 2 glorious comments.

 

[sr71plt]

Edited stories start off with two high 5s, and 2 glorious comments.

Is that better than eleven straight 5s in the first 15 hours without any comments or favorites?

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Edited stories start off with two high 5s, and 2 glorious comments.

Hmmm. You might be right. After all, presumably, your editor likes your stuff, otherwise they wouldn't give you the green light. I guess you do have a sort of built in fan in that instance.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Is that better than eleven straight 5s in the first 15 hours without any comments or favorites?

Are you suggesting there's dishonor amongst FAWC thieves?

 

[sr71plt]

Edited stories start off with two high 5s, and 2 glorious comments.

Incidentally, this isn't true with me. I've edited FAWC stories in which I advised the need for significant content changes that weren't made--and then I rated and commented accordingly.

On the flip side, I haven't normally voluteered to those I edited for for FAWC what stories I have entered to FAWC. Since I've noted already on this thread that I edited for Aynmair in the last FAWC, she could attest that I gave her a merry chase on what I had entered.

 

[sr71plt]

Are you suggesting there's dishonor amongst FAWC thieves?

Yep. You haven't been reading this and the previous four FAWC threads?

 

[Blind_Justice]

My story went not only through the usual grammar, spelling and punctuation screening, my editor also offered sound advice on how to make it work much better. It would have turned out quite differently from what I've posted. Also, I think that because FAWC in an exercise to take some solid writing improvements from, the authors should try to bring their A-game, both in terms of story and delivery.

As for editing help from participants: I'm all for it, as long as both parties keep it mum. My editor knows my style and some of the keywords to identify me within seconds, so I thought "why not" and asked for help. The alternative would have been a breathless search for a new editor with all the usual start-up hassles and no guarantee that the story would have made the deadline at all.

The end result is a more legible story for everyone, at no loss of anonymity to the general public. So far, no one has mentioned which story I could have written, showing me that it worked. Okay, I know of two other people who know for certain, but these would be my editor and FAWCker, and they're not telling, tee hee

 

[Swilly]

Okay let's see if I can explain this to Mr. Perfect. I'll out my story in the process, but hey, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

The commenter in question wrote:

Forget something--like that there was an exercise requirement? Extremely weak use of the exercise requirement, and I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this. Still gave it pretty high marks because it was well written and because, although I think Bob is a predatory prick and Kay is a bimbo, the story seemed to completely satisfy the genre. And this is, after all, an erotic story site.

So lets start with the exercise REQUIREMENT. It was:

FAWC 5: Line, Please! will have everyone starting with the same first line. The sentence cannot be restructured in any way other than to change punctuation. Quotes may be added. Otherwise, the sentence must be identical for all stories written for this FAWC.

The line is:

Quote:
Upon the table lay three items: a handkerchief, a book, and a knife.
Not terribly descriptive, I admit, but that's the point. It's a simple first sentence. Where the story goes from there is entirely up to the individual author.

Shortly thereafter, Slyc posted:

Do whatever you want with it. Use the items, or throw them out the window. Just as long as the first sentence is that one.

Compare the commenter using the word REQUIREMENT with what you see above, and you realize the comment was just wrong, and it changes the discussion entirely. So, Pilot, the person called them requirements, which they aren't. That is what I took exception to, and that's why I called attention to it. I saw a similar comment elsewhere too.

The fact that the person then went on to call Bob a predator and Kay a bimbo just indicates they didn't even really read the story. A predator would have used his position to get Kay. Just because Kay is infatuated with Bob doesn't make her a bimbo either.

Let's go a bit further though. Where this story went wrong, in my opinion, is that I didn't do a good enough job building up tension, and once they had gotten together, how Bob would surprise Kay with the things he decided to do with her. That anticipation....her waiting...standing...wondering...needing...THAT is the point. THAT...is how the items were used. They were in her head. The point is to make the readers wait in anticipation along with Kay, and then have to fill in the blanks themselves. I should have left the last sentence off entirely. My failings had nothing to do with those three items. On top of all that, the twist of NOT using the items was creative by itself. So bullshit. But, as noted above, that wasn't even a requirement.

It's ludicrous to think it would have been all good if Bob had shaved her with the knife, spanked her with the book, and wiped his cum of her chin with the hankie. Yippee! creativity.

To say it's dumb to not use the "elements" as you would have used them just speaks to your usual arrogant and holier than thou attitude. You're disappointed that not everyone sees it your way? You must be pretty fucking disappointed with your life then, pal. Same shit, different day.

A while back, JBJ called you Frank Burns. It was so damned funny because it's true. I can just picture you whining and flapping your arms about. No, NO, NO!! He didn't follow the rules. Wah wah wah!

 

[sr71plt]

A commenter can choose whatever critieron he/she wishes to differentiate how close to a 5 she/he would give the story--and/or how it compares to the other stories in the exercise. If one of the key criteria used is a clever and well-integrated use of the elements given for the exercise, that's not only an intelligent critieron but it also is completely their privilege to do so.

If they think it's a strategically important element of assessment and they chose to use it as a standard in their critique and discuss it as such, I wholeheartedly agree with them.

I'm sorry if one or more of the commenters decided that you didn't meet the mark they chose to set in how cleverly and well-integrated you used the set elements (OK, OK, I'm not sorry at all)--but that's really your problem and cross to bear.

As is your personal attacking--which is identical to what LC would do. Exactly like LC. Well, the foaming at the mouth maybe isn't quite all there yet. But I presume you'll get there.

 

[Swilly]

Do you know how to read?

The commenter spoke of requirements. Using the items was not a requirement. Pretty much end of discussion. If they had written, I would have rated higher if you used the items, so be it. That isn't what they said.

I can't dumb it down much more for you, pilot, even though you seem to need that.

 

[sr71plt]

Um, OK. *shrug*

You can have a tantrum that a commenter hurt your widdle feelings, if you like.

But there are two points that you (and a few others) don't seem to want to get through your head here. (1) superlative isn't about meeting requirements; it's about exceding them, and (2) a reader has total privilege to decide what is important to them in a story to assess a story in that vein.

 

[Swilly]

Misdirection doesn't work. Sorry.

 

[jomar]

This may have been noted in previous FAWCs, but as I think about it, since the bottom line of this exercise is to be a better writer having one's work edited here works against that.

Submitting our best time limited unedited story and getting feedback on it can only make us better. Hopefully, to think more about what we write and the precise words we use, the structure of the story and the choices we make...so we're sharper and rely less on an editor to shape us up and fix our faults.

So, I don't care if people get edited here and have no issue with it, but I think that those that do are not maximizing the value of this exercise. Could be I missed the original F1 goal, but...

 

[jomar]

Swilly, chill dude. sr can get under one's skin with the way he says shit, but it's not worth getting bent out of shape...it's the internet, yannow? Make it your mission to not let people here rile you up and you'll have more fun.

 

[Aynmair]

I can't speak to anyone else, but will to the FAWC4 story edited by Pilot - his comments were fairly minimalistic and he saw 1 draft (I wouldn't impose on his time anymore than that), I followed some and didn't others. In his anon comment on my FAWC4, he commented on the final draft, which he hadn't seen except after it posted. He didn't out me ( thank you!) and I still gained a lot in the FAWC exercise. It was my first participation in FAWC, shortly after I started writing any of these type of stories, so having someone do a read-through gave me some confidence I wouldn't be laughed out of the room.


I NEVER vote on my own stories! and as far as I know, Pilot doesn't vote on stories he's edited. He'll confirm or not. What would be the point??? One vote isn't going to make a difference, and personally I feel it's marginally unethical.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes I vote on stories I've edited. I don't take ownership of the stories and my edits are just suggestions. So, just because I edited it doesn't mean I feel ownership or the need to vote a 5.

 

[Swilly]

Um, OK. *shrug*

You can have a tantrum that a commenter hurt your widdle feelings, if you like.

But there are two points that you (and a few others) don't seem to want to get through your head here. (1) superlative isn't about meeting requirements; it's about exceding them, and (2) a reader has total privilege to decide what is important to them in a story to assess a story in that vein.

And you still seem to be unable to grasp the point. The comment spoke directly about requirements. I followed them. Are you really this fucking stupid or are you just unable to say you made a mistake?

Why do you always go back and add shit to your comments after posting them. Just wondering.

 

[AMoveableBeast]

Personally, I wish we could spend as much time talking about the stories as we do arguing amongst ourselves. Then this truly would be a worthwhile exercise.

Unrealistic, I know, and not my right to ask for, but damn it'd be cool, huh?

 

[sr71plt]

Here's a handy dandy (I think) chart on differentiating one story from the other in a contest:

Meets contest/exercise element requirements in a good story: 3

Uses and integrates contest/exercise element requirements really well in a great story: 4

Knocks using and integrating contest/exercise element requirements out of the ballpark in a fantastic story: 5

Knocks them the fartherest out of the ballpark: the winner

The kicker is that each and every reader is a separate judge of this--with, unless there's cheating going on--just one vote--and based on their own interpretation of what is important. And the winner comes out as some sort of balancing of what all the readers thought was the best story (and/or the coalition you can put together with your clique).

The facilitator is just one reader with one vote. If you thought you could win because you did only the minimum that the facilitator said you had to do, you're not the brightest bulb in the chandelier (OK. That's unless you know you have the votes in your clique). The facilitator is one reader with one vote and with just his/her own perspective on the criteria that need to be met to win.

In the case of this particular exercise, what was given was the opening sentence. Any writer here who didn't understand that the opening sentence of a story is important to the whole story probably should repeat creative writing 101. I would not have thought that the writers entering a FAWC exercise would have to be told the importance of an opening sentence to the rest of the story.

Superlative is not meeting requirements; it's exceding requirements in the view of the collection of separate readers using separate criteria of what is required. And the goal of a contest is to identify the superlative. (and/or, at Literotica, support those in your clique. )

 

[sr71plt]

Swilly, chill dude. sr can get under one's skin with the way he says shit, but it's not worth getting bent out of shape...it's the internet, yannow? Make it your mission to not let people here rile you up and you'll have more fun.

Oh, so there's no reason Swilly would be getting under my skin?

 

[sr71plt]

Personally, I wish we could spend as much time talking about the stories as we do arguing amongst ourselves. Then this truly would be a worthwhile exercise.

Unrealistic, I know, and not my right to ask for, but damn it'd be cool, huh?

You can do it. We've been talking stories around the flak for several days. It can be done. Of course we're getting to where folks either need to be talking who or that the who needs to be revealed so that the authors can be included in the discussion of their pieces. I certainly have some stuff to say about mine--and wouldn't mind saying more about the ones I thought were best of what I read (and that were better than mine).

 

[Swilly]

You're back to your usual routine of making a straw man argument. That's one of your classic moves.

I don't care if someone doesn't like my story. I don't care if I get a one rating because my character is named Kay and Kay was his first girlfriend that broke his heart. How a story affects someone is how it does. When they make a factual misstatement though, then I will call them out on it.

If you'd actually read anything that I wrote about this, you'd understand. But you don't. So, whatever. You've got your head so far up your ass you can't even hear yourself fart.