Rank the scoring impact of non-storytelling elements

[BuckyDuckman]

Outside of a FAWC contest or independent judging system, I think it's impossible denying final scores are based SOLELY on writing quality or the storytelling ability of an author. As well written and deserving as the recent VD contest winners were, I'm sure anyone one could make a case for why the order could have been different. Sometimes it's like choosing a favorite color - there's more than one correct answer (unless you choose "rainbow" or "plaid"). I think it gets as arbitrary as suggesting King is a better horror writer than Koontz or Hiaasen writes funnier stuff than Barry. (And besides, we all KNOW "Big Bang Theory" is immensely better than "Friends" every was!)

So - risking the fervent accusations and eye-rolling of the usual suspects, I'm going to suggest my list of arbitrary factors that influence voting for good or ill. I'm going to rank my list. I would invite you to make your additions and provide your own ranking of arbitrary factors beyond relative story quality -

My list:
#1. Story length. A longer story dissuades lower votes because a reader will abandon a story before reaching its end, preventing a potential poor score.
#2. Category Choice. Tough one to suggest as high as this but I think a category like "Incest" might have a lower thrill threshold than a category like "Gay Male."
#3. Fan base. I think it needs to be on this list somewhere and I'm going to put it third. I think this can work for and against some authors. Too rabid of a fan base may encourage 1-bombing other stories in hopes of seeing a favored author rise to the top.
#4. Gender neutral or a female gender pen name. Another I expect some to find controversial. However, I think horny guys are more likely to add a star or two if they can believe it was a woman who just got them hard.
#5. AH or Forum reputation. I believe some of us attract attention (good and bad) from our perceived reputation in the forums.
#6. Getting the category's expectations right. I think many readers are drawn to some categories with specific expectations in mind. For example, based on popular tags, I would guess most "Interracial" readers are searching a story that includes a BBC and a white girl. Work contrary to that and I believe you risk a lower score.

That's my list and my thoughts. What are yours, how would you rank them and why?

 

[Hypoxia]

Disclaimer: I haven't entered contests, and I've only posted in a few categories, so I can't constructively comment on your list. Also, I've disabled voting on my stories. I *can* say that:

1) Most of my stories have been 2-page chapters in Group Sex, and got good vote scores based on not a lot of reads.

2) I posted 2-page standalones in Incest and LW that got low votes but MANY views and faves -- and many fucktard comments. Some fucktard then 1-bombed all my other stories, which is why I have disabled voting.

3) I posted a 4-part series of 2-page chapters, each in a different category. #1 (Group Sex) got the most views and votes. #3 (Novellas) came in second, #2 (Sci-Fi) was next, and #4 (Non-Human) was last.

4) My four 2-page postings in Humor-Satire got decent votes and faves on not many views.

5) In my various series, the first always get the most views but not necessarily votes.

Three new stories of mine were just approved. Two (that I think are my best here so far) are in Incest, a 3-page series starter and a 5-page standalone. So far, the 5-pager has nearly 3x the views of the 3-pager, and a rave comment. I suspect it got more views because its description is more vivid.

So, from my limited experience, I'd say the determining non-strorytelling factors include category, description, position in a series, and meeting reader expectations.

Ah, but what does an author want here? What are the motivations? D'ya want brownie points (votes)? I used to; now, I don't care. I *do* like getting views and faves and raves, though. I'll try to manipulate those "determining non-storytelling factors" in my favor there. But mostly, I'm just here for fun. The scoring is incidental. YMMV.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Outside of a FAWC contest or independent judging system, I think it's impossible denying final scores are based SOLELY on writing quality or the storytelling ability of an author. As well written and deserving as the recent VD contest winners were, I'm sure anyone one could make a case for why the order could have been different. Sometimes it's like choosing a favorite color - there's more than one correct answer (unless you choose "rainbow" or "plaid"). I think it gets as arbitrary as suggesting King is a better horror writer than Koontz or Hiaasen writes funnier stuff than Barry. (And besides, we all KNOW "Big Bang Theory" is immensely better than "Friends" every was!)

So - risking the fervent accusations and eye-rolling of the usual suspects, I'm going to suggest my list of arbitrary factors that influence voting for good or ill. I'm going to rank my list. I would invite you to make your additions and provide your own ranking of arbitrary factors beyond relative story quality -

My list:
#1. Story length. A longer story dissuades lower votes because a reader will abandon a story before reaching its end, preventing a potential poor score.
#2. Category Choice. Tough one to suggest as high as this but I think a category like "Incest" might have a lower thrill threshold than a category like "Gay Male."
#3. Fan base. I think it needs to be on this list somewhere and I'm going to put it third. I think this can work for and against some authors. Too rabid of a fan base may encourage 1-bombing other stories in hopes of seeing a favored author rise to the top.
#4. Gender neutral or a female gender pen name. Another I expect some to find controversial. However, I think horny guys are more likely to add a star or two if they can believe it was a woman who just got them hard.
#5. AH or Forum reputation. I believe some of us attract attention (good and bad) from our perceived reputation in the forums.
#6. Getting the category's expectations right. I think many readers are drawn to some categories with specific expectations in mind. For example, based on popular tags, I would guess most "Interracial" readers are searching a story that includes a BBC and a white girl. Work contrary to that and I believe you risk a lower score.

That's my list and my thoughts. What are yours, how would you rank them and why?

I agree with you in concept, but it's not something I care to dwell on. Except for category selection, there's nothing I can do about the other factors.

There is, however, one factor I think you are overrating. I don't believe AH or Forum reputation has much impact on scores. I don't think more than a handful of readers ever look at the AH, and except for maybe the GB or the Playground, there aren't that many who readers visiting the other forum. There are probably no reliable statistics to prove or disprove this idea, but if you look at the number of visitors on line at any one time, it is pretty low compared to the number of views a story gets.

 

[lovecraft68]

My list:
#1. Story length. A longer story dissuades lower votes because a reader will abandon a story before reaching its end, preventing a potential poor score.
#2. Category Choice. Tough one to suggest as high as this but I think a category like "Incest" might have a lower thrill threshold than a category like "Gay Male."
#3. Fan base. I think it needs to be on this list somewhere and I'm going to put it third. I think this can work for and against some authors. Too rabid of a fan base may encourage 1-bombing other stories in hopes of seeing a favored author rise to the top.
#4. Gender neutral or a female gender pen name. Another I expect some to find controversial. However, I think horny guys are more likely to add a star or two if they can believe it was a woman who just got them hard.
#5. AH or Forum reputation. I believe some of us attract attention (good and bad) from our perceived reputation in the forums.
#6. Getting the category's expectations right. I think many readers are drawn to some categories with specific expectations in mind. For example, based on popular tags, I would guess most "Interracial" readers are searching a story that includes a BBC and a white girl. Work contrary to that and I believe you risk a lower score.

#1 I received 2000+ votes in the 2012 Summer loving contest with an 8 page entry. Maybe I could have gotten more if it was shorter, but that is a pretty good tally.

#2 tossing out the bizzarro world of LW this is laughable. Every category has ist fans of stroke and "story driven" stories. Okay, romance may be the exception. But GM/Group? incest etc...have fans of higher and lower thresholds. I won't count NH or Sci fi because erotic content takes a back seat in those categories.

#3 this certainly weighs in big time. But just because an author has a large fan base does not mean they go around one bombing others. I'm sure there are some that might, but they will be in small fan bases as well

4- Irrelevant.

#5 Forum rep? That is what a certain person uses as an excuse all the time. Its a crock. I've been involved in and stirred up many flame wars on these boards and not just here but the GB I have some trolling, but nothing excessive.

#6- some merit here. If you "dare to be different" you may see a lower score, better feedback by the people that "got" the story, but maybe less votes and rating.

Now seeing we got on the hot bed subject.

here is one you left out.

Category, but not by threshold or reputation, but by popularity.

Time and time again it has been pointed out that a 100 vote story in a lower read category makes out far better in the sweeps than a 1000 vote story.

Want to win? Enter late in a low vote category and watch your score jump .20+ with a loss of 20 votes. It takes 100+ pr more to make that difference in a high voted story.

And there is no way to fix it. You can't punish a category because it does not have a lot of readers, but fact is the sweeps are an advantage.

Now if everyone wrote up and up based on what they want or just putting a good story out there it would not be an issue, but there are people who know this is the way to win.

I'll also throw in forum reputation as in other forum members doesn't matter, but reputation to the, shall we say hoover? That matters.

 

[Seanathon]

#1. Story length. A longer story dissuades lower votes because a reader will abandon a story before reaching its end, preventing a potential poor score.

I'm still relatively new to Lit, but isn't there just as good a chance that a reader who might have voted the story a 5 might abandon a story and not vote if they found it too long?

 

[Euphony]

I'm still relatively new to Lit, but isn't there just as good a chance that a reader who might have voted the story a 5 might abandon a story and not vote if they found it too long?

*edit* Oops. Misread post.

I think you make a valid point that its just too hard to know what an unhappy reader might do and even harder to rank.

I think story length helps more with those who bother voting tend to vote approvingly (since they only will see it to the end if they liked it) moreso than those who see 10 pages DOWNvoting it.

 

[StrangeLife]

I am sort of an anti-christ of ratings, because one of the most important criterions for getting a high rating in my stomping grounds - Loving Wives - is in direct violation of my prime directive of writing. I am of course talking about....

1. Meeting the readers expectations.

... which kind of encompasses "getting the category right."

I make it a point to always include something that I hope the reader won't anticipate and I am being deliberately vague in my selections of tags in order to avoid giving anything away. The problem with this is, that the reader might spend a fair amount of time reading the story, before realizing that it's not what he thought it was and that he hates it. Wasting a readers time does not go unpunished...



My second is...

2. Formatting/spelling.

I'm not trying to be a nazi here, but I have read stories that were way better than their scores reflected. The only problem was that they were written in pidgin-english and/or formatted in a way that made them very hard to read. So the readers probably assumed that they were poor, clicked one-star and moved on.

Too bad, because it's not that hard to break the text into suitable paragraphs and any word-processor worth it's salt has spell and grammar check. This is a dumb way of wasting a good story.



My third is...

3. Fanbase of the author.

The readers have certain authors that they follow and whose style matches their preference. The readers assume that the story is good based on the author and thus they are approaching it with confirmation bias. This might actually be more important than #2, but the kind of author that is able to gather a sizeable fan-community would never submit anything with poor spelling and formatting anyway.



I don't believe that story length or forum rep. are important. A bad story will always seem too long regardless of how short it is, and most of the readers never visit the forum.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm still relatively new to Lit, but isn't there just as good a chance that a reader who might have voted the story a 5 might abandon a story and not vote if they found it too long?

Possibly, but at the higher end, that's a good trade-off (if what you care about is average rating, that is).

Say you're trying to get at least a 4.75 to beat the next highest story in a toplist/contest/etc. At that score it takes three 5s to cancel out one 4. So if story length drives off two potential 5s for each 4, you're still coming out ahead.

(I don't actually write with the intent of gaming scores, BTW, but I've certainly noticed that as the readers drop off in a series the scores go up. Have a look at the top-rated stories on the site and see how far down the list you have to go before finding a short one-shot piece.)

 

[patientlee]

Somebody should make up a quiz-- What's Your Forum Rep?

 

[lovecraft68]

Somebody should make up a quiz-- What's Your Forum Rep?

Mine sucks and yours is in the shitter because you respond to my posts.

 

[Euphony]

Somebody should make up a quiz-- What's Your Forum Rep?

Oh I'm sure the (alleged) AH Brown-Noser extraordinaire would LOVE that.

Isn't it enough you've beaten us? Must you grind our bones then our souls into dust on top of that?

 

[Euphony]

Mine sucks and yours is in the shitter because you respond to my posts.

There's no way you register on the meter. Your good reputation is the faintest of heartbeats.

Irregular too.

 

[lovecraft68]

There's no way you register on the meter. Your good reputation is the faintest of heartbeats.

Irregular too.

Bullshit.

I go every day like clockwork.

 

[patientlee]

Oh I'm sure the (alleged) AH Brown-Noser extraordinaire would LOVE that.

Isn't it enough you've beaten us? Must you grind our bones then our souls into dust on top of that?

Ooh. I guess I don't need a quiz. It was already decided. :caning: My bad.

 

[patientlee]

Mine sucks and yours is in the shitter because you respond to my posts.

No I don't!!

 

[Euphony]

Bullshit.

I go every day like clockwork.

Oh we know. There are MANY here who frequently remind us you deposit shit daily.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Ooh. I guess I don't need a quiz. It was already decided. :caning: My bad.

He put me on ignore...so he says.

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh we know. There are MANY here who frequently remind us you deposit shit daily.

Hey come on, I don't pick on your stories!

 

[lovecraft68]

He put me on ignore...so he says.

Right, then he says "But I reserve the right to peek from time to time."

 

[Euphony]

Hey come on, I don't pick on your stories!

LC feeling "picked on?" Can't happen. Especially without witty retort.

I have found you out imposter. Your mushy feelings have given the game away.

Bring back the real LC. Them's trolls that needs a thrashing!

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Right, then he says "But I reserve the right to peek from time to time."

I don't care if he peeks, but he better not touch or he'll pull back a stump.

 

[lovecraft68]

Bring back the real LC. Them's trolls that needs a thrashing!

Okay fine, "Thanks for the Roses chapter two" coming up.

 

[Euphony]

Okay fine, "Thanks for the Roses chapter two" coming up.

Asshole. Do you KNOW how hard it is to find a pitchfork sharpener at THIS time of night?!!!

 

[patientlee]

Okay fine, "Thanks for the Roses chapter two" coming up.

I'm not proof reading if there are wine glasses involved! I'm still having trouble choking down my Chobani from the last one!

(Which I didn't proofread either, BTW. I have my rep to protect!)

 

[lovecraft68]

No I don't!!

Sorry, my mistake.