Votes aren't that important. BUT...

[sr71plt]

Despite all the stalking and harassment, I can laugh at you too, LC. That proves I have a sense of humor.

(And, really, other posters here can decide whether I have a sense of humor for themselves; you've left yourself open for all to see on that sort of empty lie.)

 

[lovecraft68]

I wanna be sedated.

"The Ramones started in a garage"

I am so tired of that commercial

 

[lovecraft68]

Despite all the stalking and harassment, I can laugh at you too, LC. That proves I have a sense of humor.

(And, really, other posters here can decide whether I have a sense of humor for themselves; you've left yourself open for all to see on that sort of empty lie.)

You'd have to have a sense of humor.

I've seen how your books sell.

Have a nice weekend.

 

[sr71plt]

No you haven't. You are as clueless about where and how my books are selling (but obsessed about it, of course) as you are about everything else concerning publishing. And you (and Scouries) are the only jerks and assholes who bring this sort of topic to the forum. I can see from your posts over the last couple of days that you aren't having a real good time of it. Tough.

(Time for you to squeal like a little piggy now, I think. )

 

[Hypoxia]

I wanna be sedated.

I wanna be mandated.

Queer Marriage was very good. I laughed out loud more than once.

I expanded it a little recently. Now it's even better!

The Total Moron's Guide to SAME-SEX MARRIAGE
.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I want to be a poor man's JBJ

Oh STOP! Youre already the King of Kansas City.

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh STOP! Youre already the King of Kansas City.

I'll gladly trade my KS Kingdom for one of the trailer parks you write about!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'll gladly trade my KS Kingdom for one of the trailer parks you write about!

We have plenty! I'll mail you one.

Most of our nudist resorts started out as trailer parks. I'm told we're the nudist capital of America. Outta high school, before I joined the service, I filled LP gas bottles at many of the parks, and it was a real let -down....nuthin but old duffers like me. Saggy old pepperoni tits, and wrinkled truck-nutz.

 

[JKendallDane]

I just have to be flabbergasted that someone whose stories are entirely in the GM category here can't see the effect of all of his gay male stories, whether they are romance, or BDSM, or fetish, or incest, or horror, having to go into a single category and take the risks of reader response to multiple issues when hetero stories can enjoy their separate categories for these topics (and more)--and all the special listings that the individual category pages provide.

The only "effect" I have been able to see is that I am reaching my target audience by 'being relegated' to just the GM category because I write gay male stories exclusively. Sure there may be some risk of reader reaction involved when you primarily write gay romance and drop an incest, BDSM, fetish, et al, single shot story into the portfolio mix...but aren't you infamous for declaring that we "should write what we want to, and damn the reception"? The GM category is a smorgasboard and most every well written story there, regardless of its specific plot or kink, seems to find its fans.

I'm both proud and humbled when I find my stories with red H's and consistently hitting the monthly and yearly top lists. I'm even more proud and more humbled when I compare key numbers such as views, votes, comments, and favs with other authors not only in GM but in other categories as well...and even against the site's "most prolific" GM author.

Maybe it is a "the forest and the trees" thing, but I truly can't see the negative of Laurel's rule of "If it's gay or lesbian...that's the trump card."

 

[sr71plt]

...but aren't you infamous for declaring that we "should write what we want to, and damn the reception"?

Yes, but what does what the author chooses to write have to do with how the Web site comparatively packages and presents the stories?

And I haven't compared my stories posted here to yours in any way--so I don't see any reason why you should feel justified in starting to do that yourself. Maybe the jerkness of LC is rubbing off on you.

 

[TimothyM]

1 bombs damage repaired

But getting 1 bombed upsets me, and I don't care if saying so will tempt the trolls. If they are the kind of scum who get off on hurting other people like that, I'm happy to report them to Laurel every time (just did with the two who hit my new GM story).

I have no expectations about having those specific 1 votes deleted, but I have seen it happen on my stories, both in the monthly sweeps and during contest sweeps (and that was without reporting the suspicious votes). So some 1 star votes are clearly considered fradulent (the term Laurel used in the automatic PM response to my message). I'll keep you posted if they disappear.

OK as promised here is the status for the votes of my most recent story after correction by the site:

This afternoon there were 57 votes and an average score of 4.39.
This evening there are 54 votes and an average score of 4.54.
Difference in total points: 5 (250-245)
I reported two 1 point votes, so apart from those a 3 point vote must also have been removed. That was probably 'fradulent' for some other reason.

I have no idea whether the sweep was automatic or specific for my story, due to the report, but I'm gonna enjoy the red H while it lasts.

Edit: I wrote a PM to Laurel to say thank you. She sent a response saying that my story had not been the only one hit, so due to my report they were able to cacth and remove 'quite a bit of fraud'. So I can feel good about that too

 

[JKendallDane]

Yes, but what does what the author chooses to write have to do with how the Web site comparatively packages and presents the stories?

So what would be your solution to this perceived major problem? Twenty sub-categories in both gay male and lesbian to cover all the possibilities...or doing away with GM and Lesbian and having us post those stories alongside the hetero ones?

The first one is asking for special treatment, and the second would be begging for comment and vote carpet bombing.

 

[sr71plt]

No, the first one isn't asking for special treatment. The first one is a response to the comparative special treatment already accorded hetero stories. You still just don't get it.

Yes, unless they do away with categories and go completely to keyword search (which I already mentioned here and has been discussed), a bi category and a few major subcategories for gay and lesbian (which is what they already have for hetero--but you don't get that) like BDSM, horror, romance, incest, fetish, interracial and maybe an "other" category. The "take everything back to keyword searching" is the best for multiple category stories (which most are). Not my favorite, but the most equitable arrangement I see. Then GM, lesbian, bi would be key word categories.

Why don't you just stop being belligerent over this and discuss it without that chip on your shoulder?

Pointing to the inequities doesn't mean I think the Web site is going to do anything about it--or that I have any plans to stop posting stories here because of it.

It also doesn't mean that the inequities don't exist.

 

[JKendallDane]

And I haven't compared my stories posted here to yours in any way--so I don't see any reason why you should feel justified in starting to do that yourself. Maybe the jerkness of LC is rubbing off on you.

Or perhaps you are missing what is commonly known on chat boards as "tongue-in-cheek sarcasm" and "friendly banter."

After all, I did preface that comment with how I was both proud AND humbled. Sheesh! Take a stroke when one is given to you.

 

[sr71plt]

You may think that fooled anyone. It didn't. Not me, at least. That's in the same bin as those who open with "don't take this wrong, but . . ." or "with all due respect . . ."

And this is just more of the insidious innuendo that ascribes positions to me that I hadn't taken. Farther up the line I myself said there were GM stories doing far better than mine in categories beyond rating--and said my stories were niche. That said, good buddy, since you brought it up, none of the statistics on the Web site sort out the stories on fundamental higher quality or better writing and storytelling in any meaningful way. So anyone even starting into that "I'm better than you" discussion is full of malicious shit.

 

[JKendallDane]

No, the first one isn't asking for special treatment. The first one is a response to the comparative special treatment already accorded hetero stories. You still just don't get it.

Yes, unless they do away with categories and go completely to keyword search (which I already mentioned here and has been discussed), a bi category and a few major subcategories for gay and lesbian (which is what they already have for hetero--but you don't get that) like BDSM, horror, romance, incest, fetish, interracial and maybe an "other" category. The "take everything back to keyword searching" is the best for multiple category stories (which most are). Not my favorite, but the most equitable arrangement I see. Then GM, lesbian, bi would be key word categories.

Why don't you just stop being belligerent over this and discuss it without that chip on your shoulder?

Pointing to the inequities doesn't mean I think the Web site is going to do anything about it--or that I have any plans to stop posting stories here because of it.

It also doesn't mean that the inequities don't exist.

I get the "comparative special treatment" point. I just don't happen to agree with it. From my experiences, GM tends to be pretty laid back when it comes to readers and you rarely see anyone freaking out in comments over a story because it included a fetish that maxed their squick tolerance. I chanced an incest plot without any warning just last week, and other than one negative comment, the reception has been as good as any other of my one-shot strokers.

I will agree 100% that Laurel does need to add a bi category. It only makes sense even though it opens up the can of worms over mmf and ffm. Now you need two sub-categories there also in addition to the half dozen or so you are suggesting are needed in GM and Lesbian.

There is no "chip on my shoulder"...I just see the current category structure as providing a synergistic effect for GM authors, instead of one that dilutes our efforts.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, and I posted that I can see disparities because I both have to dump all theme categories of GM into the one category for my GM stories and because I also write stories to the more numerous and separated hetero categories. You only write to the one GM category, so naturally you can't see the disparities that I see in writing extensively to more than just that category.

That said (surprise, gasp), you can have your opinion. I don't demand that you agree with me.

It would have been nice, though, if you'd actually seemed to understand what I was posting.

 

[JKendallDane]

Yes, and I posted that I can see disparities because I both have to dump all theme categories of GM into the one category for my GM stories and because I also write stories to the more numerous and separated hetero categories. You only write to the one GM category, so naturally you can't see the disparities that I see in writing extensively to more than just that category.

That said (surprise, gasp), you can have your opinion. I don't demand that you agree with me.

It would have been nice, though, if you'd actually seemed to understand what I was posting.

I understand what you are posting...up to a point.

Yes; in the purest sense of the word; there *IS* a disparity in having to post a fetish themed stroker or incest centric story or BDSM plotline alongside romance or non-human or sci-fi submissions. There is also a disparity (again in the purest sense of the word) in having to post single shot stories alongside series and novellas. And that exists in EVERY category.

The problem I am having with understanding though, is that disparity is usually accompanied by some real or perceived negative effect. Your stories get thousands of views and you collect fans, votes, and favs in the niche you work. My stories...and other authors' submissions...do also from the niche and/or fan base we have or build. So where is the visible downside? Or even better yet...what is the UPside to splitting the category into a half dozen or more theme-specific ones?

 

[LadyCypris]

I agree with Beatnic. There are entirely too many games going on with the scores here and too much opportunity to feed that. If you go on scores alone and discount anything under a 4, you're going to be missing a lot of good stories (and probably the most innovative ones). I sometimes look at the ones rating below 2 just for the hell of it--to see what would rate that low. And sometimes I'm surprised.

That's true! My favourite story I've submitted here has a 3.xx score, so I understand where you and Beatnic are coming from.

However there are just so many good stories already and more new ones coming in every day than I can ever keep up with. There may be many factors affecting the score but in my reading experience a story that scores 4 and above is simply much more likely to be a good one than, say, a story in the 2-star range. /shrug/

As far as being gay-unfriendly, just look at how the categories break out--some twenty categories for straight stories, one (or one and a half, if you want to included cross-dressing, some of which is GM) for GM, one for lesbian, none for bi. And look at the forum categories. All GBLT lumped into one forum.

I don't think that's an accurate way to look at it. I would say the only categories you could properly say were for 'straight stories' are the Erotic Couplings and Loving Wives category, although you may be right that most categories are gay-unfriendly (I wouldn't know as my fetishes are rather narrow).

 

[sr71plt]

I don't think that's an accurate way to look at it. I would say the only categories you could properly say were for 'straight stories' are the Erotic Couplings and Loving Wives category, although you may be right that most categories are gay-unfriendly (I wouldn't know as my fetishes are rather narrow).

And quite possibly because you've never tried to post a story with MM in it to one of these other categories. Or have you? If you haven't, you're really not in much of a position to say much about the cause and effect of doing so, are you?

 

[TimothyM]

And quite possibly because you've never tried to post a story with MM in it to one of these other categories. Or have you? If you haven't, you're really not in much of a position to say much about the cause and effect of doing so, are you?

Nope, she couldn't have - because I think most of those who have tried, got axed. As is obvious when you see the score and the comments. I've even helped one poor author get his story away from a straight category (Romance I think) to GM, and let me tell you he was reviled (and then relieved) !

You can get away with mmf sex in Group Sex (and maybe Anal), provided you warn people up front, and probably even mm sex in NH and Sci-Fi & Fantasy - with lots of warnings, but that's it. No First Time, no EC, no Romance, Mature etc etc. (Edit: Oh actually you can have mmf / Bisexual in Mature, just found a couple of good stories - but NO gay stuff)

But I don't mind, cause the GM crowd seems to be broadminded and accepting - though it does mean that there are a lot of GM stories, that I don't like. But that's just me not being into that many categories anyway.

 

[LadyCypris]

I've also seen gay male stories in Nonconsent/Reluctance, though your point is well-taken.

sr71plt, I kind of got the impression you were talking specifically about there being an inherent anti-GM bias in the way the categories are set up, not the reception GM stories get. The former is what I was responding to.

Apples and Oranges. I'm talking about how the Web site is set up and you're talking about who is using it. It's not set up with GM (or bi or lesbian) on equal footing.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes. My stories get a fine reception here no matter where they post. It's the trolls chomping at them because of my forum posts only that makes it look otherwise.

My comments are in the inherent disparity in the presentation of and access to the stories in the categories as set up. Anyone who can't see the disparity is just pretty much blind to it. It's obviously there.

I'm certainly not saying that the editor, Laurel, is antigay. Gay male stories are listed high on the New list as often as any other category (My listing today was entered as #2 on the list) and she awards Green Es to GM stories (I have 6 Green Es on GM stories). It's the structure of the Web site itself and causes the disparity in access to the file--and maybe too, though, the failure after years and years of requests to take the simple step of adding a bisexual category.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I don't think that's an accurate way to look at it. I would say the only categories you could properly say were for 'straight stories' are the Erotic Couplings and Loving Wives category, although you may be right that most categories are gay-unfriendly (I wouldn't know as my fetishes are rather narrow).

Same-sex content does occasionally make it into other categories but in general, it's rare and that rareness is self-reinforcing. People who want a same-sex romance aren't likely to look for it in Romance - they'd have to filter through hundreds if not thousands of stories to find anything that fit the bill. Meanwhile, people who do read Romance aren't expecting to find a same-sex story there, and some of them may react negatively, especially if it's M/M.

 

[Laurel]

I will agree 100% that Laurel does need to add a bi category. It only makes sense even though it opens up the can of worms over mmf and ffm. Now you need two sub-categories there also in addition to the half dozen or so you are suggesting are needed in GM and Lesbian.

That is the problem. Readers who want to read about bisexual men generally have zero interest in bisexual women - and vice versa.

I'll say it again as I believe I've expressed before: the lack of a Bisexual category at Lit is not based on some refusal on our part of acknowledge Bisexuality. We totally recognize it, personally and societally. There is no sociopolitical agenda at work. We completely embrace and support the entire spectrum of adult sexuality.

A generic Bisexual category just doesn't make sense as a story classification.

When you start talking about adding separate Bisexual Female and Bisexual male categories - at that point, these are things that are better served by Story Tags.

To be honest, in the year 2014 and going forward I think the Categories are less important to readers as far as navigation goes. Honestly, I think that it makes more sense to move towards on subdividing and focusing the categories we have now - via Story Tags (by authors and eventually allowing readers to tag as well), Public Story Reading Lists, and other forms of navigation than to add another category. Readers want more specificity, not broader groupings.