To The Feminists

[Light Ice]

Or, in the very least, the most vocal and active amongst you...


Do you find yourself offended by, and/or critical of, at least a significant portion of the threads on Literotica from a feminist perspective?

(Not in terms of quality of content or literary skill.)

 

[MILFSauce]

Feminism means equality before the law and in the opportunities afforded by a society. That's all.

So, to answer your question ... no.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

Such as?

 

[Miss_Vivi]

Or, in the very least, the most vocal and active amongst you...


Do you find yourself offended by, and/or critical of, at least a significant portion of the threads on Literotica from a feminist perspective?

(Not in terms of quality of content or literary skill.)

And you say I am trouble. Bad boy, starting stuff.

 

[Drunken_Angel]

And you say I am trouble. Bad boy, starting stuff.

You -are- trouble. Then again, so is Ice, if I remember correctly.

I'll bite though, I'm in a 'taking the bait' kinda mood. The answer for me is 'no' for the most part. I'm not so easily offended, and as a feminist, I"m used to having to disengage my politics from my enjoyment. If I didn't, I'd never be able to watch another Quenten Tarrintino movie or Gossip Girl. I'd not be able to enjoy most media, in fact, because it is so very difficult to find anything that doesn't replicate oppressive power structures, like sexism, racism, colonialism, classism and the like.

If the writing is blatantly sexist, I'll probably just move on to another piece.

 

[Light Ice]

I was, for once, reading through SRP Threads that weren't my own. The content seemed degrading in almost all of them. It made me curious as to how an actual woman, especially one as aware as some of you, would react to them.

I'm not saying that I'm surprised by the mild responses - but I'm not satisfied by them. If not offended, then, are there any thoughts as to the nature of that content and how pervasive it is?

 

[thestruggle]

Here's the problem...while the content here is more explicit, at its core it really isn't significantly different than anywhere else.
The subtext is so much media is that women are objects to be controlled and treated like property.
The fact that there's explicit sex and rape here is really sort of the only difference.
Watch commercials. The implied lack of consent is pretty common. Watch TV, the nature of women being less-than-men is a normal theme.
Its hard to get too pissed when talentless hacks write the same stuff on a message board.

^^^^^

 

[LadyVer]

I was, for once, reading through SRP Threads that weren't my own. The content seemed degrading in almost all of them. It made me curious as to how an actual woman, especially one as aware as some of you, would react to them.

I'm not saying that I'm surprised by the mild responses - but I'm not satisfied by them. If not offended, then, are there any thoughts as to the nature of that content and how pervasive it is?

Out of curiosity, how do you feel when you read anything that degrades men?

 

[Baelnorn]

Just not worth it...

 

[Miss_Vivi]

Here's the problem...while the content here is more explicit, at its core it really isn't significantly different than anywhere else.
The subtext is so much media is that women are objects to be controlled and treated like property.
The fact that there's explicit sex and rape here is really sort of the only difference.
Watch commercials. The implied lack of consent is pretty common. Watch TV, the nature of women being less-than-men is a normal theme.
Its hard to get too pissed when talentless hacks write the same stuff on a message board.

QFT

As a feminist you have a continual choice to make as to whether to be pissed off at something or not to be. Many times, and this is due to the very pervasiveness of media that absolutely couches women as rapeable objects, that to scream at the world in the end, only makes you hoarse.

So, we learn to pick and choose our battles. Going after a hack here on lit who tries to write something about rape? Petty, and our attention is better focused elsewhere. Besides, we choose to open those threads, and we choose to read them.

In many cases, where the content of the thread is triggering, if the author of the thread places a warning as such (and in the three threads where I personally have written or are currently writing issues of rape and abuse there are warnings) then people can choose to consume that media.

Simply put, there are bigger fish to fry on lit than mere threads. Such as the distinct lack of safe spaces for bisexual/homosexual male writers (I say them specifically because I've not found many good threads for them), including safe space for the entire LGBTQITA (omg, I don't know how many more letters there are) community as writers. Not to mention that within Elliquiy (another writing site) there is space to define yourself as genderless, but not here on lit. Nor do I see much identification of transfolk (whether or not they feel safe here). Then there is the continued idealized construction of heterosexual masculinity, which in the lounge is well worthy of despair given it's inherent lack of flexibility on sexual identity. Or the common feeling of creepiness among self identified women who must daily contend with unwanted messages and attention from males who deem it their task to share their genitals with the world.

So! Why would I get offended at some poor sap who is choosing to jerk himself off to a poorly worded and ineptly stated rape thread, while there is so much else to work on?

 

[thestruggle]

QFT

As a feminist you have a continual choice to make as to whether to be pissed off at something or not to be. Many times, and this is due to the very pervasiveness of media that absolutely couches women as rapeable objects, that to scream at the world in the end, only makes you hoarse.

So, we learn to pick and choose our battles. Going after a hack here on lit who tries to write something about rape? Petty, and our attention is better focused elsewhere. Besides, we choose to open those threads, and we choose to read them.

In many cases, where the content of the thread is triggering, if the author of the thread places a warning as such (and in the three threads where I personally have written or are currently writing issues of rape and abuse there are warnings) then people can choose to consume that media.

Simply put, there are bigger fish to fry on lit than mere threads. Such as the distinct lack of safe spaces for bisexual/homosexual male writers (I say them specifically because I've not found many good threads for them), including safe space for the entire LGBTQITA (omg, I don't know how many more letters there are) community as writers. Not to mention that within Elliquiy (another writing site) there is space to define yourself as genderless, but not here on lit. Nor do I see much identification of transfolk (whether or not they feel safe here). Then there is the continued idealized construction of heterosexual masculinity, which in the lounge is well worthy of despair given it's inherent lack of flexibility on sexual identity. Or the common feeling of creepiness among self identified women who must daily contend with unwanted messages and attention from males who deem it their task to share their genitals with the world.

So! Why would I get offended at some poor sap who is choosing to jerk himself off to a poorly worded and ineptly stated rape thread, while there is so much else to work on?

Have you seen the new designation people are talking about? I think it was something like gender and sexual diversities, GSD, maybe. I dunno, I'll have to look for it again.

And also yes to what you said, you and Vail are who I want to be when I grow up. Yayyyy!

 

[Drunken_Angel]

Vail and vivi somehow always seem to match words to my thoughts.

I feel like I'm drawing stick figures to their Salvador Dalis, but unlike the typical stick figure artist, I'm quite pleased by this. As Vivi said, I pick my battles and how I choose to negotiate with media s entirely my choice. Isn't that what empowerment is all about?

 

[Miss_Vivi]

Have you seen the new designation people are talking about? I think it was something like gender and sexual diversities, GSD, maybe. I dunno, I'll have to look for it again.

And also yes to what you said, you and Vail are who I want to be when I grow up. Yayyyy!

I have not! But I do like the idea, very much. There is talk around the inclusion of poly folks into the pile and I find this very exciting. Again, the work that needs to be done is never ending, and well worth it.

Vail and vivi somehow always seem to match words to my thoughts.

I feel like I'm drawing stick figures to their Salvador Dalis, but unlike the typical stick figure artist, I'm quite pleased by this. As Vivi said, I pick my battles and how I choose to negotiate with media s entirely my choice. Isn't that what empowerment is all about?

You're fabulous darling, and you know your words and choices around being a feminist have brought tears to my eyes. I'm a much more flexible and radical feminist because of your wise presence in my life.

 

[Drunken_Angel]

You're fabulous darling, and you know your words and choices around being a feminist have brought tears to my eyes. I'm a much more flexible and radical feminist because of your wise presence in my life.

Awwww..... Vivi! I take back -almost- ever prank I've ever pulled.
That was soooooo sweet!

 

[Light Ice]

Out of curiosity, how do you feel when you read anything that degrades men?

I haven't, as of yet, but on a whole I can't say it would have any effect on me at all. Men, particularly white men (like me), dominate the entirety of our culture. I've no concept of what it means to have the boundaries of my importance in society set strictly because of my gender.

 

[LadyVer]

I haven't, as of yet, but on a whole I can't say it would have any effect on me at all. Men, particularly white men (like me), dominate the entirety of our culture. I've no concept of what it means to have the boundaries of my importance in society set strictly because of my gender.

So, you haven't read any stories where men are degraded. Although the stories where women are degraded are much more frequent on Lit, I've stumbled on some stories where men are being degraded. Personally, I found them repugnant. Of course, stories where women are raped are perfectly acceptable, but a story with men getting castrated is terribly offensive.

 

[Wolfias]

I think it's enlightening to hear directly from intelligent feminist on Lit, being I'm a staunch advocate for equal rights for all. Being in the minority of the physically impaired, stereotypes are just an idiots idea of what they don't understand. To this I say fuck normality being different if more fun anyway.

 

[Light Ice]

So, you haven't read any stories where men are degraded. Although the stories where women are degraded are much more frequent on Lit, I've stumbled on some stories where men are being degraded. Personally, I found them repugnant. Of course, stories where women are raped are perfectly acceptable, but a story with men getting castrated is terribly offensive.

What?

 

[LadyVer]

What?

What what?

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

Something should also be said for the decision of women that freely choose to take part in those threads, too. Degradation, humiliation, etc, are not necessarily anti-feminist on their own. Those things don't happen on here in a vacuum. If those things are interesting, or arousing, or just something someone would like to explore a little, then being able to choose to take part in those threads (and, activities) or not take part in then is exactly a thing feminists fight for. It's possible to be submissive, or masochist, or pretty much identify with any other kink, and still be a feminist, as long as the choice to take part in those things is being made freely, and the decision to stop anything at any time is respected by their partner(s).

This whole thread seems to be based on the notion that those things can't coexist, which is false.

 

[Drunken_Angel]

I'm not so keen on the topic of choice. I know that grounded within U.S. culture, where "Freedom" is a nationalist buzzword, choice seems to be the apex of freedom. However, it's one of those concepts that becomes very difficult when you're trying to navigate social dynamics. The making of a choice implies that this choice is free (or mostly free) of influence and is an expression of the person's will, and when power is unequal, so are the choices.

I prefer to look at the dynamics in any particular set of actions- and this will become important as one looks at eroticism and kink from a (not the) feminist perspective. At first glance, it seems as if d/s would be anti-feminist, as it arguably replicates the very oppression that is the focus of feminist critique. The fact that women participate, doesn't make this any less real.

However, I maintain that there is a stark difference between being on the receiving end of these dynamics in RL and actively engaging in them with d/s. Engaging implies agency (the extent of this agency is a matter of debate), while experience in society implies the opposite (though again, there's room for debate here- none of this is clear-cut).

I choose to engage. I've the background to understand social dynamics and I've a fairly broad context into which to place what I do, but even if I did not- there is something both erotic and empowering (for me) in writing and experiencing d/s. It's cathartic, it feels fucking awesome, and if I allow myself to be degraded and get something by that, then more power to me, I say.

My politics are my own. I -could- take on the social beast here, but I'd rather take on a different sort of beast entirely.

 

[Wolfias]

No damned wonder everyone happily freaked the hell out when you returned DA. I know you don't know me from Adam's house cat, but with what you just posted you're just to put it mildly. Freaking Awesome!

 

[Drunken_Angel]

No damned wonder everyone happily freaked the hell out when you returned DA. I know you don't know me from Adam's house cat, but with what you just posted you're just to put it mildly. Freaking Awesome!

You totally just brightened up my morning. Thank you.

 

[Wolfias]

You're very welcome...but you brightened my day equally as much. So thank you in return.

 

[MausAss]

There is a lot of offensive stuff for anyone on her, not just feminists. I don’t think anyone on here thinks rape is okay, but as long as it’s only fantasy I don’t see a real problem. Its part of what this site great, people are allowed to live out their fantasies, including those they wouldn’t want to experience in real life.

If you get upset by people’s fantasies, at least the ways they are expressed here then you have some issues. It doesn’t matter whether you get upset from a feminist, religious or moral point of view you will still be a bigot. This is free zone to express your sexual fantasies and no one is forced to read, write or engage in a thread unless they want to. In real life it can be harder to make that distinction, but here it’s pretty clear.

If someone tells you in person that they get turned on by rape fantasies, it’s a completely different thing. Unless it is in a very trusting environment it would feel a bit like a threat. The difference is that here you know that you or anyone else can always step away from the keyboard, but in the real world you can’t. Here it is very clear that it’s usually very clear that it’s just a fantasy. I think if people actually thought it was more than a fantasy a lot of them would get upset.


Here’s an example, compare someone starting a thread with the following titles:

I’m looking for someone to write a rape story with.

and

I’m thinking about raping a friend of mine.


Not a lot of people would be upset by the first thread, but a lot of people and not just feminists would be upset by the second one. The first one looks like a fantasy, while the second has moved past that stage and it feels like the person actually might do it. Somewhere in the middle would be:


I want to write a story where I rape a girl I know in real life, I will give you the details how she looks and acts so we can make it as believable as possible.


A thread like that would upset more people than the first example, but a lot less than the second. The bottom line is that feminists don’t get more upset by fantasies than anyone else does. They get upset by real injustices made against women. If a feminist on here would be so upset that she started an argument over every thread she disliked, I wouldn’t view her primary as a feminist. I would view her as an idiot and I think most feminists on here would agree.