Bureacracy?

[CountGustaf]

I submitted a story, my first erotica ever. It was refused on a technicality. In quotes, I had left the final commas outside the quotation marks. Swedish is my first language, and that's how we do it, because the comma is a separator, not a part of the quote, like a period, a question mark or an exclamation mark.
Nevertheless, I fixed the quotes, and tried to resubmit the story. Then that was stymied, because I had already submitted a story with the same title. Sure, the same story, just some commas moved.
I'm not changing the title. It's an integral part of the story. I'd rather take the whole thing elsewhere, and it's a good 'un, I think. One of the best I've read at least.
So is there a workaround?

 

[oggbashan]

...

So is there a workaround?

Resubmit the story with the exact same title, including spaces and capitalisation followed by the word EDITED.

Add a note in the NOTES box that this is an edited version of the story, replacing the original.

If your original title is too long to allow the word EDITED after it, use as much as you can, followed by EDITED and explain what the title should be in the NOTES box.

If that fails, PM Laurel to explain the problem.

 

[PennLady]

I submitted a story, my first erotica ever. It was refused on a technicality. In quotes, I had left the final commas outside the quotation marks. Swedish is my first language, and that's how we do it, because the comma is a separator, not a part of the quote, like a period, a question mark or an exclamation mark.
Nevertheless, I fixed the quotes, and tried to resubmit the story. Then that was stymied, because I had already submitted a story with the same title. Sure, the same story, just some commas moved.
I'm not changing the title. It's an integral part of the story. I'd rather take the whole thing elsewhere, and it's a good 'un, I think. One of the best I've read at least.
So is there a workaround?

For the punctuation, I understand that it's a difference, but this is a US-based site and they use US styles. In the US, we put the comma inside the quotes, as we do other punctuation marks. Seems like an easy fix, like a search and replace should take care of most of it.

I think what you need to do is delete your first submission, then submit the corrected copy. If you've submitted both, then delete both and submit the correct one after they are both gone.

To delete, you should go to your submissions, and in the title, add the word "DELETE." You may need to remove characters from the end of the title to fit it in, but that should be okay. Select and delete the text if you copied it in, and write a note to the effect of "Please delete this submission." You can put the same thing in the Notes field, below the submission field. Submit as usual. You will probably need to wait a few days.

You could try sending a private message (PM) to Laurel by using the link at the top right of the page. Make sure your private messages are enabled, which you can do by clicking the User CP link at the top left of this page. Tell her what happened and be clear, she's usually pretty responsive for things like this, but it still make take a few days. Laurel is the only one who manages the stories, so she can only work so fast.

 

[PervOtaku]

I find it hard to believe that a site like this would refuse something based on such a minor, and disputed, thing. I thought the submitted stories are reviewed for content, not copy editing.

The last time I looked into the issue of commas and periods inside or outside of quote marks, several sources noted that while most American manuals of style follow the "always inside" rule, a lot of Americans these days are rebelling and going to the British "inside if it's part of the quotation, otherwise outside" logic. Considering that the "always inside" rule is supposedly based on old typesetting blocks in which the closing quote mark kept the periods from falling out the end of the line, there's no real point to it in the digital age.

 

[sr71plt]

I find it hard to believe that a site like this would refuse something based on such a minor, and disputed, thing. I thought the submitted stories are reviewed for content, not copy editing.

The last time I looked into the issue of commas and periods inside or outside of quote marks, several sources noted that while most American manuals of style follow the "always inside" rule, a lot of Americans these days are rebelling and going to the British "inside if it's part of the quotation, otherwise outside" logic. Considering that the "always inside" rule is supposedly based on old typesetting blocks in which the closing quote mark kept the periods from falling out the end of the line, there's no real point to it in the digital age.

No, the editor reviews for format, grammar, and spelling as well. But as PennLady posted, the Web site runs on U.S. style. The British do, legitimately, have different rules from U.S. style on quote treatment, but it doesn't appear that the Web site fully understands and/or accepts the differences. British style on quote punctuation is a lot more complex than U.S. style is.

I think you are quite wrong, though, on American manuals trending toward British style on this. Citations, please. I edit for over twenty mainstream U.S. publishers, and none of them show signs of wanting to go to any more complex style on anything than they currently follow.

 

[RejectReality]

The reason you can't submit is that the rejected story is still sitting there in your profile with your title.

I've never actually done it, but I believe this works. You can click the "rejected" link. There you can find all the original story information still available. Upload/Paste in the new text, and make a note in the "notes" section that you're making the suggested corrections to the rejected story.

Then preview and submit as normal. The "rejected" notice should change to "pending"

Alternately ( and I know this will work ) Delete the existing, rejected submission. You do this by clicking the "rejected" link, and then scrolling to the bottom of the existing story information. There, next to the "preview" button you will also find a "delete" button. Click that and any confirmation screens, and the original, rejected submission should vanish.

Then, you can submit your story with the original title.

 

[lovecraft68]

No, the editor reviews for format, grammar, and spelling as well. But as PennLady posted, the Web site runs on U.S. style. The British do, legitimately, have different rules from U.S. style on quote treatment, but it doesn't appear that the Web site fully understands and/or accepts the differences. British style on quote punctuation is a lot more complex than U.S. style is.

I think you are quite wrong, though, on American manuals trending toward British style on this, though. Citations, please. I edit for over twenty mainstream U.S. publishers, and none of them show signs of wanting to go to any more complex style on anything than they currently follow.

Citations please! Citations please! Oh oh oh teacher, he's fibbing! Citations please! ohhh (insert sniveling little nerd noises here)

Cite your "20 mainstream publishers". But with proof as in your name associated with the work.

Nah, never mind you'll just make one up like you do everything else.

People are onto you Pilot and it is going to get pretty damn funny around here real soon.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Don't submit a new story. Go to the submission that is already there you should be able to edit the text directly or cut and paste the new text in the text box replacing the original text. Then just click the submit button.

Have we all forgot how to hand rejected stories?

Only my first was rejected and I just replaced the text in that submission as it hadn't been posted so it was just like it was pending.

 

[sr71plt]

We can all wait for the claim to be backed up. If (when) it isn't, you're the one with egg on your face, LC. Be sure to check back. Then we'll see who the blowhard is, won't we?

I'll stand pat on no American style manual trending to British quote punctuation style (not that you even know what we're talking about).

You are such a sick, obsessed jackass. Just because you are a failure doesn't mean anyone else is.

 

[sr71plt]

The pity here, Lovecraft68, is that in your obsessive harassment of me, you are quite willing to weigh in on matters you know absolutely nothing about, thus not helping others on the board one bit.

But, just because you're being such an ass tonight, here you go, the answer to your question--and it's more than 20. More like 35. And it's your turn to tell us if you are still working in a warehouse or have quit and are making a living writing and publishing as you claimed last year you were going to do.

AM Publishing Services
Appingo
Appledown Press
Bernan Press
Brassey's, Inc.
Brookings Institution Press
Cambridge University Press
Capital Books
Center for Political and Strategic Studies
CIVICUS (World Alliance for Citizen Participation)
Colburnhouse Publishing
Continuum (London)
CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies)
Global Link
Gorgias
Greenwood Press
Hampton Roads Publishers
Howard University Press
M.E. Sharpe
Naval Institute Press (Remember the Tom Clancy discussions? )
Naval War College Press
Palgrave-Macmillan
Pathwork Press
Potomac Books
Praeger
Scribe, Inc.
Shambhala Publications, Inc.
Simon & Schuster
Southern Charm Press
Stylus
TechWorld Publishing
Temple University Press
Teora USA
University of Virginia Press
Urban Institute Press
Wadsworth
The World Bank

You, of course, are going to post that I'm lying. And I'm going to laugh, knowing I'm not and that it makes you just that much more of a jackass. All you've got is unsupported malicious innuendo. Nearly everything you tag me with bragging about is something you've exaggerated from what I've once posted and that you, not I, am trotting out to repost from time to time. Although you post it in exaggeration (and being too dumb about the world to understand what it is), I have done/am doing all of what is at the base of what you denigrate, and I'm not going to cheapen my actual life to suit your limited horizons and disappointments in your own life of failure and substandard existence. Once again we see how tiny and barren your world is in comparison to that of some of the rest of us.

It isn't that my life is too large, Lovecraft--it's that your life is too small. And obviously that's eating you up and has made you crazy.

 

[Handley_Page]

I do wish you two would pack in the 'disputes'.
To my mind, it takes folk away from the purpose of the thread and gets boring after a while.
Ye gods, it's bad enough when Amy spikes up.

 

[sr71plt]

I do wish you two would pack in the 'disputes'.
To my mind, it takes folk away from the purpose of the thread and gets boring after a while.
Ye gods, it's bad enough when Amy spikes up.

And I do wish folks would stop lumping me with Lovecraft68 on this. He's the one doing the attacking. Wake up and smell the coffee. It's his sick, obsessed attacking that is mucking up this forum.

I was here before he showed up and I plan to be here after he leaves. So, if you want this behavior to stop, you'll have to go after Lovecraft68 to stop his harassment and stalking of me.

If you don't, then it's just tough for you.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I hate to say it, but...

Sometimes I like to watch a few crossfires of hyperbole and pejorative when I have no ideas in my head or things are getting too regular: "his sick obsessed attacking/" "his small life," /etc.

Oh yeah oh yeah. Hit him with that. Now you in that corner, what are you gonna hit him back with...?

Sure if it goes on too long it falls back into the same old same old.

All the same, one has to admire people who still have energy left for allowing the blood to get up on account of some personal slight or something like that. Frankly, I would like to meet the consciousness of the old Emperor Tiberius - the one who filled the river Tiber with the bodies of his victims - 'well,' I should say to him, 'make you feel better did it?'

And I would continue, 'listen sonny, if you can solve the global economic growth problem, never mind the fake debt situation, THEN you are entitled to commit mass murder on account of your personal ego having felt aggrieved - that is IF you still have ambition to be something like an emperor nowadays...'

However, regarding the OP, I hope he has found some of the responses of use; they seem correct to me and if it makes him feel any better, hey, I have, we probably most of us have, had a few 'rejections' for what we considered trivial things, but then again you have to persevere and try to fit into the style format and the final result ends up being pretty decent.

D.

 

[DeYaKen]

If the story was indeed rejected for using non US punctuation rules. Then I have to say that Laurel is being vaguely insulting to all the readers on Lit, who are more than capable of making the adjustments.

When an author, from the UK for instance, publishes a book in the US the publisher does not go through the the book changing all the punctuation, spelling and colloquialisms. They know the readers are more concerned with whether it is a good read or not.

If US audiences are capable of enjoying Billy Elliott, they cope with the differences in punctuation. Sure there will be a few of the more ignorant pedants who do not realise that there are different rules outside the US, and they will slag you off. You just have to live with that.

I write in UK English with UK punctuation if Lit don't want to publish my stories, no problem there are plenty of other sites that will.

In the meantime I continue to read all those stories that use US English with it's peculiar spellings and punctuation. Surprisingly enough I'm able to follow and enjoy them without ant problem.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If the story was indeed rejected for using non US punctuation rules. Then I have to say that Laurel is being vaguely insulting to all the readers on Lit, who are more than capable of making the adjustments.

When an author, from the UK for instance, publishes a book in the US the publisher does not go through the the book changing all the punctuation, spelling and colloquialisms.

Actually, they often do exactly that. For instance, here's a list of changes between Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (UK version) and Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (US): "car park" to "parking lot", "crumpets" to "English muffins", "jumper" to "sweater", etc etc. It doesn't list simple UK-US spelling changes, but they did those too.

Excerpt from US edition of Scottish author Charles Stross's work: note "labor" and "-ize" spellings.

Ben Aaronovitch's "Rivers of London" (US "Midnight Riot") is a police procedural set in London; the US edition uses US spellings "-ize" etc, and changes to US quoting style, although it doesn't seem to change colloquialisms.

And so on.

 

[horrorotica]

I am Australian, so I use British spellings (eg I write realise, not realize) and grammar and I have never had a story rejected because of it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the OP said he thought he was rejected for misusing quotation marks.

I see this kind of thing often. "My name is Horrorotica", I said. This is not the correct use of quotation marks in dialogue in english. “My name is Horrorotica,” I said. - is the correct use in English.

Meanwhile, if I was quoting a phrase or a word in a sentence it would read: “My name is ‘Horrorortica’,” I said.

This is a different use of quotation marks.

It doesn't matter if you use the two mark one, or the single mark one either. ‘My name is “Horrorotica”,’ I said. Whichever one you use as your primary quotation marks in dialogue, then you use the other one on the phrases or words you highlight.

Same if your quoting someone else in your dialogue. “I’ll never forget that day when he came up to me and said, ‘My name is Horrorotica.’ He didn’t look like anything I’d imagined him to look like.”

This is pretty much how it works in English.

If I’ve misunderstood the OP complaint then please forgive me if you think I am being patronising. It is not intended that way. Good luck with it,

 

[sr71plt]

Just an aside, Horrorotica, aren't you under indictment here for plagiarism of stories on this site (see the Feedback Forum)? Don't you have something to say about that?

On the topic of the thread, though, what you gave as incorrect in the following example is British style--and is, I think, exactly what is being discussed here as permitted or not.

I see this kind of thing often. "My name is Horrorotica", I said. This is not the correct use of quotation marks in dialogue in english. “My name is Horrorotica,” I said. - is the correct use in English.

This is how the OP defined the problem:

In quotes, I had left the final commas outside the quotation marks.

 

[sr71plt]

If the story was indeed rejected for using non US punctuation rules. Then I have to say that Laurel is being vaguely insulting to all the readers on Lit, who are more than capable of making the adjustments.

I don't think she means to be insulting; I think she hasn't grasped all of the nuances the British system for this has that the American one doesn't. I'm not being critical--I haven't grasped them either, and I've done some British-style book editing for UK publishers. I have to keep a cheat sheet in front of me and even then I'm not sure I've gotten the variations the British have correct.

When an author, from the UK for instance, publishes a book in the US the publisher does not go through the the book changing all the punctuation, spelling and colloquialisms. They know the readers are more concerned with whether it is a good read or not.

At one time U.S. publishers did (and some still do) completely redo manuscripts picked up from UK publishing into U.S. style. They seem to be doing less reworking of late, but they did in fact do exactly that--go through the book and changing everything into U.S. style--for decades and decades. My first government job entailed "translating" BBC news reports to Americanese for U.S. policymakers.

Pick up an old Agatha Christie mystery republished in the States and compare it to the UK version--if you can find the proper comparison, because twenty years ago the American versions changed even the titles.

 

[oggbashan]

...

Pick up an old Agatha Christie mystery republished in the States and compare it to the UK version--if you can find the proper comparison, because twenty years ago the American versions changed even the titles.

As a secondhand bookdealer I frequently had to explain to customers that the title they were missing from their collection was a US version of one they already had.

Agatha Christie was one author who caused confusion. Her 'Ten Little N****rs" had various titles in its publishing life.

Clive Cussler's 'The Mediterranean Caper' never had the title in UK editions. It was called 'MayDay'.

 

[sr71plt]

As a secondhand bookdealer I frequently had to explain to customers that the title they were missing from their collection was a US version of one they already had.

Agatha Christie was one author who caused confusion. Her 'Ten Little N****rs" had various titles in its publishing life.

Clive Cussler's 'The Mediterranean Caper' never had the title in UK editions. It was called 'MayDay'.

I set out to read all of Graham Greene (and think I finally succeeded). I lived outside the United States, though, for most of that time, and I had a hell of a time rectifying titles between U.S. and UK versions.

 

[ishtat]

Oggbashan as an ex book seller might be able to cast more light on the following observation. I have a fair number of UK books published pre 1850. In them the use of punctuation marks are more similar to modern American convention, rather than modern British. The use of double quotation marks is the most obvious example.There are others but my observation is that the Brits have tended to change more than the Americans.

A previous poster, horrorotica stated "I am Australian so I use British spellings."

I am Australian too, with a British upbringing. I generally prefer British spellings but am a convert to IZE endings, which incidentally the Macquarie Dictionary (Australia's only authoritative dictionary) ok's as an alternative. I also tend towards American punctuation particularly in the use of quotation marks.(because the rules are simpler).

Rupert Murdoch controls about 70% of the Australian National print media and his staff are supposed to follow American style conventions - though they frequently lapse, and they generally follow British spelling.

I believe that in this respect Australia is a bit of a mongrel, which is occasionally awkward but not a major problem.

Another question to finish. Is it a bad thing if Lit is getting more picky about the technical quality of submissions? I would say no, but others may differ.

 

[lovecraft68]

I hate to say it, but...

Sometimes I like to watch a few crossfires of hyperbole and pejorative when I have no ideas in my head or things are getting too regular: "his sick obsessed attacking/" "his small life," /etc.

Oh yeah oh yeah. Hit him with that. Now you in that corner, what are you gonna hit him back with...?

Sure if it goes on too long it falls back into the same old same old.

All the same, one has to admire people who still have energy left for allowing the blood to get up on account of some personal slight or something like that. Frankly, I would like to meet the consciousness of the old Emperor Tiberius - the one who filled the river Tiber with the bodies of his victims - 'well,' I should say to him, 'make you feel better did it?'

And I would continue, 'listen sonny, if you can solve the global economic growth problem, never mind the fake debt situation, THEN you are entitled to commit mass murder on account of your personal ego having felt aggrieved - that is IF you still have ambition to be something like an emperor nowadays...'

However, regarding the OP, I hope he has found some of the responses of use; they seem correct to me and if it makes him feel any better, hey, I have, we probably most of us have, had a few 'rejections' for what we considered trivial things, but then again you have to persevere and try to fit into the style format and the final result ends up being pretty decent.

D.

No energy required at all, nor any true malice.

I have anti bully mentality and Pilot is lits biggest cyber bully. Don't agree with him he will try to drive you off so I like to piss in his cheerios.

Bottom line is not what is said here, but what reaction is garnered behind the keyboard.

I'm smiling and he knows he's lying.

And I know it too.

 

[TxRad]

No energy required at all, nor any true malice.

I have anti bully mentality and Pilot is lits biggest cyber bully. Don't agree with him he will try to drive you off so I like to piss in his cheerios.

Bottom line is not what is said here, but what reaction is garnered behind the keyboard.

I'm smiling and he knows he's lying.

And I know it too.

No, being an anti bully has nothing to do with it. He has pissed you off and called you on bullshit so you use every opportunity to put it to him you think you can get away with. Pilot is too hash sometimes but he is very seldom wrong about the publishing world.

 

[CountGustaf]

Bureaucracy?

I´m sorry if I started, or restarted, some kind of infight over matters that are not my concern. My experience from other fora is that if I hadn't, someone else would have. Because they are waiting to happen.
I sincerely and profoundly thank those authors who contributed hands-on suggestions, which I will now try out. If I succeed, the story will eventually appear under the title Hot Shower. I have come to realize that there are thousands of stories with that title on Literotica, but nevertheless it's extremely appropriate to this story, so I will not change it. Which is the reason for my problem in resubmitting it.
I still think that comma-outside-the-quotation is more logical, since the comma is a separator, and not part of the quote, which the period, question mark, and exclamation mark are. I don't see it as British, but perhaps European. As I said, my mother tongue is Swedish, and learning English at school -- British English, for eight years in my case -- we were never told it was wrong.
Anyway, this is not about being right, but about getting my story published, so I've tucked all the commas inside the quotations.
Incidentally, The story is in the Gay male category. Incidentally, because I'm not gay, never have been, and never will be. A story about men having sex just happened to me and needed to be written.
So even if yor are not into gay male per se, you may like it. Especially if you are into history. Because it's about one of the first hot showers, 100 years ago to the day.
Or perhaps it's just a good story.

 

[sr71plt]

If you'd like someone to check over the redone story to see if it should pass muster and you have it in Word, you could PM me (the message system at the top right of this page) for an address to e-mail attach it to. If you do, you might also include the exact wording of the rejection notice to ensure I know for sure what it originally was rejected for. If you want to distinguish the title, there should be a word or two you could add to the title and still have it fit the story.