Do you ever wish...

[butters]

...you could read one of your pieces through another person's eyes?

from several conversations had here, i don't think i'm the only writer surprised at reactions others have to something we've written; it must be because of what they bring to the experience - the added elements. stuff i/we don't get to see with our own eyes/minds. it almost makes me jealous - i want to get inside their heads and look at the thing i wrote using their vision, memories, their imagination. seems it makes for better reading than using my own.

this is a relatively new sensation and it feels strange. is it ultimately narcissistic, or a control thingy?

 

[Senna Jawa]

[...] i want to get inside their heads [...]

And then, most of the time, what? C'mon, you should know better.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Don't think you'd want to be inside my head but of course you could do a spring clean while you were there!

 

[bronzeage]

I just wish other eyes would read my pieces.

 

[butters]

And then, most of the time, what? C'mon, you should know better.

and then i would see what they see, and probably find my write on its own without their input would suck and each one would see something different anyway which would highlight my own shortcomings in getting them to see what i meant them to see and so . . . yeah, maybe i'm better off not going there. but dayumnn, the curiosity

Don't think you'd want to be inside my head but of course you could do a spring clean while you were there!

will i need breadcrumbs or rope?

I just wish other eyes would read my pieces.

they should! they're missing out.
*makes note/promise to read more from the bronzeage*

 

[Senna Jawa]

I just wish other eyes would read my pieces.

Yes, that's the Internet for you--a lot of authors, very few readers.

 

[butters]

Senna - what is it you wish?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Be careful what you wish......a loooong time ago a well respected member, intelligent and sharp, chose one of my very early poems to dissect. It was horrifying and exhilarating at the same time. I had mis-spelt the title so it wasn't a good start, but she saw things I never knew were there. Here is that thread, it's a very interesting, if time-consuming exercise; and here is the, much edited poem, the original is long gone but the bones are still there.

 

[butters]

Be careful what you wish......a loooong time ago a well respected member, intelligent and sharp, chose one of my very early poems to dissect. It was horrifying and exhilarating at the same time. I had mis-spelt the title so it wasn't a good start, but she saw things I never knew were there. Here is that thread, it's a very interesting, if time-consuming exercise.

goes off to read*

immediately, this:

The most important part of the criticism is to figure out what the poem is up to. Not what the author is trying to say, but what the poem is doing. As a recent professor of mine says, “What the author is trying to achieve suggests a focus that’s too narrow, as if this were argumentative prose with a single clear purpose. Poetry is far more various and nuanced, and sometimes even the author won’t know all that the poem is Up To until the reader brings in his or her own experiences.” In other words, this is what I think the poem is about.

 

[twelveoone]

...you could read one of your pieces through another person's eyes?

from several conversations had here, i don't think i'm the only writer surprised at reactions others have to something we've written; it must be because of what they bring to the experience - the added elements. stuff i/we don't get to see with our own eyes/minds. it almost makes me jealous - i want to get inside their heads and look at the thing i wrote using their vision, memories, their imagination. seems it makes for better reading than using my own.

this is a relatively new sensation and it feels strange. is it ultimately narcissistic, or a control thingy?

narcissistic -no, you are getting outside yourself
control - yes, but in a creative way

In other words, this is what I think the poem is about.
and two steps over is a completely different view, and that line should be modified, to this is what I think the poem is doing and then modified once more, with how many times has it been done before.

And seriously you don't want to go too far into another person's head, that is psychiatry, and the good ones kill themselves, and the bad ones just hand out drugs. Poetry is bad enough.
Ommmmm
inous

 

[butters]

narcissistic -no, you are getting outside yourself
control - yes, but in a creative way

In other words, this is what I think the poem is about.
and two steps over is a completely different view, and that line should be modified, to this is what I think the poem is doing and then modified once more, with how many times has it been done before.

And seriously you don't want to go too far into another person's head, that is psychiatry, and the good ones kill themselves, and the bad ones just hand out drugs. Poetry is bad enough.
Ommmmm
inous

that whole getting outside myself thing - i do it all the time in dreams - i'm still 'me' but if the me i am isn't in that part of the dream (as it wouldn't make sense for me to be there), i simply flow into whatever/whoever IS in the scene - so they are behaving as 'them' but i am looking out through their eyes

drugs r bad, 'mkay?

ommmm (hypnotic chant bringing to mind omnipresence, being everywhere at once)
nous - of the intellect
inous - i (philosophically) understand

you understand my need to be omnipresent?
ok, i was playing.

 

[bogusagain]

Shouldn't the poet be considering how their work would be read by a potential audience as they write? I get the impression from reading many poets and I'm thinking of published poets now, the last people they are thinking about is a potential audience. It is not for nothing, it seems more people write poetry than actually read it. So much poetry appears to be written by an alien species. There is nothing wrong with that if you don't mind having a readership of one, ie. yourself.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Be careful what you wish......a loooong time ago a well respected member, intelligent and sharp, chose one of my very early poems to dissect. It was horrifying and exhilarating at the same time. I had mis-spelt the title so it wasn't a good start, but she saw things I never knew were there. Here is that thread, it's a very interesting, if time-consuming exercise; and here is the, much edited poem, the original is long gone but the bones are still there.

goodness 1201 said please !!

 

[Senna Jawa]

audience

Shouldn't the poet be considering how their work would be read by a potential audience as they write?

Strong poets do. It's an automatic reflex for them.

At the same time they avoid being cheap. The two issues are not in a contradiction. One could say a lot about all this. Just "could"--there is not too much need or sense to dwell about it. It's enough to think about poems. The related notions include the question of audience on its way, as a bonus.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

goodness 1201 said please !!

What'd I do?

 

[Angeline]

...you could read one of your pieces through another person's eyes?

from several conversations had here, i don't think i'm the only writer surprised at reactions others have to something we've written; it must be because of what they bring to the experience - the added elements. stuff i/we don't get to see with our own eyes/minds. it almost makes me jealous - i want to get inside their heads and look at the thing i wrote using their vision, memories, their imagination. seems it makes for better reading than using my own.

this is a relatively new sensation and it feels strange. is it ultimately narcissistic, or a control thingy?

I have a hard enough time coping with all the crap flying through my own imagination! The thought of adding others' perceptions to that is kind of frightening to me.

To me the best poems always communicate something simple and essential. Poets have different voices and try different approaches but the poems that express some underlying truth, whatever that may be and however poets choose to say it, will reach most thoughtful readers. Of course if others tell me what they think then I know how well I connected with readers--or if I didn't. But I do think it is most important to stay focused on what I am trying to express--what truth--and keep trying to move the poem in that direction. Truth + right words = good poetry.

I remember well when Tess' poem was under the microscope. I thought its dissection was fascinating but I probably would have been horrified if it were my poem. Tess I wonder what you think about it now, in retrospect?

 

[bronzeage]

Shouldn't the poet be considering how their work would be read by a potential audience as they write? I get the impression from reading many poets and I'm thinking of published poets now, the last people they are thinking about is a potential audience. It is not for nothing, it seems more people write poetry than actually read it. So much poetry appears to be written by an alien species. There is nothing wrong with that if you don't mind having a readership of one, ie. yourself.

There is and maybe always has been, two types of poet. The first writes for themselves, with little for the reader and the second writes for an audience. I believe this separation can be blamed on the modern education system and blame may be too harsh a word. After subjecting little children to the rigors of the grammatical rules of prose, the teacher is happy to allow them to run free across the page. Poetry is their time to express their feelings, and to be fair, there really isn't time in an elementary classroom for working on rhyme or meter, much less explore the imagery of metaphor and simile.

Unless a person pursues an English Literature curriculum, this is their last formal contact with poetry. Imagine the writing skills of most people if the last book they were required to read was "The Cat in the Hat."

There is room for both types of poets, but part of the problem is so many Type 1's don't know there are two types.

 

[twelveoone]

Shouldn't the poet be considering how their work would be read by a potential audience as they write? I get the impression from reading many poets and I'm thinking of published poets now, the last people they are thinking about is a potential audience. It is not for nothing, it seems more people write poetry than actually read it. So much poetry appears to be written by an alien species. There is nothing wrong with that if you don't mind having a readership of one, ie. yourself.

did my glasses fall off?
(worth reading despite soup being a total d-bag)
I aim for a readership of zero. May as well talk to the dust.

Your potential audience is a broad spectrum of people, multi-tiered. So, if the poet wants to be selective, i.e. I neither care nor want a certain part of the audience shows more sense than trying to all things to all people. Playing to the audience is a pander game. Playing off the audience quite another, I believe that is called leading. Very tough to do. What, twice in the last century? And some of that was helped along by others and with luck.
The yourselfhas to be the most important part. Maybe, that is what Ang means by "truth".
Two of the more amazing things I've read (over in level three) had a very limited readership. I may have been the only one for one, and I doubt either one wrote them for me.

I find that it is the most amateur of poets suffer more from the writing for one syndrome , the pros at least know how to pander correctly.

 

[twelveoone]

goodness 1201 said please !!

where?
you must have inferred that Tessica's work pleases me, and I doubt whether she wrote them for me.

 

[twelveoone]

Senna - what is it you wish?

R U granting wishes?!!?
D-licious!!!!!
show me the way
to timen square
as the tanks
squishes the language
let the P-unctions
be damned!!!!!
Next up a lesson on how to write Spam

 

[butters]

R U granting wishes?!!?
D-licious!!!!!
show me the way
to timen square
as the tanks
squishes the language
let the P-unctions
be damned!!!!!
Next up a lesson on how to write Spam

so now i'm tinkerbell or the goddamned good fairy?

timen square - it's a sign of the times
P-unctions is clever. it is.

don't fritter your timen away, 12:01

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

where?
you must have inferred that Tessica's work pleases me, and I doubt whether she wrote them for me.

Don't be so sure. You never know. In any event, it gives me pleasure when you like them.....not in a FB way of course.

 

[twelveoone]

Don't be so sure. You never know. In any event, it gives me pleasure when you like them.....not in a FB way of course.

I can escalate.

 

[HarryHill]

I can escalate.

Lol, god help us

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I can escalate.

Should I be scared?