Do not apply poetic license to poetry

[Senna Jawa]

We used to have a 30 in 30 thread. I wanted to protect the author of that great thread, and the thread itself, from diluting it by posts which would not provide the intended proposed poems. Thus I have introduced a companion thread, and such companion threads became somewhat popular, were formed also in the other cases.

The same with the Short poems: examples + discussion thread. Let's post all kind of general comments here, in the Do not..., and not in the thread Short poems: examples + discussion. The Short... should include just high class examples and the discussion directly related to the poem in question.

It makes sense to consider in the present thread general posts on the present theme:

do not apply poetic license to poetry​

It should be good

 

[Angeline]

I'm looking forward to the examples.

 

[Senna Jawa]

A contradiction? (not necessarily

... Let's post all kind of general comments here, ...

I've allowed myself a private joke: there seems to be a contradiction between the definition of a short poem in my earlier thread, and the modern definition of haiku.

 

[Senna Jawa]

a promotion to poetry?

I'm looking forward to the examples.

Kind Angeline, thank you for your prompt reaction. I hope that examples will show up sooner or later (will they? . And let's not forget about the discussion.

It happens, not too often--of course, that some aphorisms actually have some clear poetic value (juicy image. and melody too?). Most of them are poetically lame, next to worthless (even if they can still be good aphorisms!). Perhaps we could fish or hunt for the poetic ones.

In a separate(!) thread--called, say, Poetic limerick--one could try to isolate poetic limericks. Many limericks are funny. Not so many are poetic (poetic limerick sounds like an oxymoron ).

That would be another project, and I feel that it would be interesting. For this board it should be interesting the extract poetry from most anywhere (and to get rid of the rest, while the opinions may somewhat vary).

 

[Tzara]

I say:

do not apply poetic license to poetry​

in general, and to short poems in particular.

Short poems can be defined roughly as poems shorter than what you expect from haiku. Very few people are able to write short poems. Still fewer can write more than five per year, etc. However short poems provide a convenient lab for poets, they provide learning material.

Thus let's do it, let's provide examples (which rise to the dignity of poetry) and discussion.

A DIGRESSION: there some very short poems which are actually not quite poems but a combination of text (in extremal cases just 1 word or a fraction of it) and of graphics. It's fine to include the best of them.

Hi, SJ. Good to see you back here.

"Shorter than what you expect from haiku" certainly limits the discussion. But thinking of poems under seventeen syllables (and that's being generous in English)?

Probably a good thing, but do you have models for it?

You must have some examples in mind. I'd be interested to read them.

You mention the possibility of a one-word poem (I actually have tried this, though I don't think it worked well, and its effect was based on typography, in any case).

Can you give some examples of what you have in mind?

 

[Senna Jawa]

Hi Tzara!

Nice to see you too.

Possibly you have overlooked this Do not... thread. If you don't mind, you could move your recent post on short poems here (or you could ask adms to do it cleaner? I don't know about the software side effects of this).

You ask: Can you give some examples of what you have in mind?

Unfortunately, I am not a pro who can easily provide the needed examples. I ran into several of them. I also read about those half-poems and half graphics tricks, and they could be featured too in Short... . (I still have a few of my own short poems but it'd be awkward for me to start with them; possibly some of you'd feel annoyed too).

 

[twelveoone]

I've allowed myself a private joke: there seems to be a contradiction between the definition of a short poem in my earlier thread, and the modern definition of haiku.

o i get it - it is like a coin trick
heads - Do not apply poetic license to (what you call) poetry
tails - what kind of license do you need to wend your way though er poetry

ah, no change, and I've just made a private joke

 

[twelveoone]

o i get it - it is like a coin trick
heads - Do not apply poetic license to (what you call) poetry
tails - what kind of license do you need to wend your way though er poetry

ah, no change, and I've just made a private joke

I'm hooked
on Stanley Fish

and I just made another private joke
or was that a barb

 

[twelveoone]

Nice to see you too.

Possibly you have overlooked this Do not... thread. If you don't mind, you could move your recent post on short poems here (or you could ask adms to do it cleaner? I don't know about the software side effects of this).

You ask: Can you give some examples of what you have in mind?

Unfortunately, I am not a pro who can easily provide the needed examples. I ran into several of them. I also read about those half-poems and half graphics tricks, and they could be featured too in Short... . (I still have a few of my own short poems but it'd be awkward for me to start with them; possibly some of you'd feel annoyed too).

this is bullshit, Senna
do you see any "pros" (just made a pun) here?
now, if not you, than who?
it is all opinion, hopefully backed by learning and logic, so, again the question
now, if not you, than who?

 

[Senna Jawa]

Thank you, Tzara!

Hi, SJ.

Thank you, Tzara, so nice!

You mention the possibility of a one-word poem (I actually have tried this, though I don't think it worked well, and its effect was based on typography, in any case).

Tzara, if you are reasonably confident than give it a try at Short.... And if you have doubts, than let's start here, in this Do not.... Once you're happy you can copy the result to Short... (copy rather than move . And we would still follow by a discussion.

Can you give some examples of what you have in mind?

I decided to start. Let's avoid the thread going down the drain for lack of activity.

Short poems in my case were victims of mishaps even more than regular poems. They were my speciality (for a lack of my better results) but today it's hard to find them. One problem was instability of Internet. These years the situation is perhaps much better (is it?). A minor disaster or complication has happened even on Literotica when they have changed the archive format. Suddenly my poems looked awkward. I've never recovered from that. (However some claimed that the funny format was interesting and had mysterious advantages--was it a silver lining or an insult added to injury?).

 

[butters]

I decided to start. Let's avoid the thread going down the drain for lack of activity.

Short poems in my case were victims of mishaps even more than regular poems. They were my speciality (for a lack of my better results) but today it's hard to find them. One problem was instability of Internet. These years the situation is perhaps much better (is it?). A minor disaster or complication has happened even on Literotica when they have changed the archive format. Suddenly my poems looked awkward. I've never recovered from that. (However some claimed that the funny format was interesting and had mysterious advantages--was it a silver linen or an insult added to injury?).

hello, SJ

it's a little daunting when you preface 'short' with 'high-class examples'. i have a fair few, but how they stand as good or poor is moot.

looking forward to seeing you post some of yours so we can get a feel for the standard expected.

 

[Angeline]

Senna I would be interested to know if you have read anything by oneiria who writes mostly very short poems. Unfortunately I could not find my favorite example from him (in his very long list of poems here), but he is someone who I think can communicate a lot in very few words.

 

[Senna Jawa]

oneiria [...] writes mostly very short poems.

I tried, a few poems. No luck so far. Perhaps others willl be more successful. I found as for now this:

Art Critique
by oneiria©

The white chalk outline
of your body on the sidewalk
fails to do you justice.​

The first 2 lines are a description (fine, just fine). The last line is talk. Otherwise there is a weird erotic accent which is anty-poetry rather than poetry. Rather trivial (certainly not profound). Let's see better examples .

Also, on the formal side, the count of syllables is 5+8+6 which is 2 more than the standard 5+7+5. Keiko Imaoka expected from haiku in English roughly 3+5+3 syllables or 2+3+2 accents.

 

[twelveoone]

I tried, a few poems. No luck so far. Perhaps others willl be more successful. I found as for now this:

Art Critique
by oneiria©

The white chalk outline
of your body on the sidewalk
fails to do you justice.​

The first 2 lines are a description (fine, just fine). The last line is talk. Otherwise there is a weird erotic accent which is anty-poetry rather than poetry. Rather trivial (certainly not profound). Let's see better examples .

Also, on the formal side, the count of syllables is 5+8+6 which is 2 more than the standard 5+7+5. Keiko Imaoka expected from haiku in English roughly 3+5+3 syllables or 2+3+2 accents.

one of his better ones
he draws a picture
there is a mystery behind it (I am doing my 50%)
here is the missed opportunity, the title could have been Art Critic thereby adding an element of ambiguity

the line
fails to do you justice.
is also too direct, why it looks like this is directed at someone...
probably some asshole that always mentions that is difficult to do three line poems, and you are often going to fall on your face trying. Who could that muthafucker be. Never mind I think I found him, the mystery is gone, it is no longer poetry.
Oh and BTW I wasn't referring to you SJ.
Poetry is mystery.

 

[Senna Jawa]

hello, SJ

it's a little daunting when you preface 'short' with 'high-class examples'.

That's what I wished for. But soon the thread went down the drain, it joined the 3-word poem thread(s) where the latter was residing down there from the very beginning.

Oh, well, the Internet is unruly, and mostly cheap.

Best regards,