I Think I Broke My Wife

[leatherleaf]

Not really...but anyway.

We've dabbled in BDSM before but last month I told her I was really seriously into it. She is - kind of. Her ok list is about a sentence worth of words and her not ok list is longer than some books. She likes the domination and submission and though its on her Ok list she is not real big on pain. I'm finding myself to be a sadist however.

We had a really strange session today. I built a pony stock for her (and found out it still needs adjustment. Locked her in and started with the caning. I know the cane hurts - I tried it at about level 4 and it left marks on me. Anyway 4 blows in (no marks, level 3 maybe) and she is crying. Not crying out - tears!

I didn't know how to react so I stopped and asked her if she was ok. Started freeing her and she said no continue. Well I didn't use the cane anymore. Then she popped herself in the mouth on the screw eye on the stock. WTF!

She seemed ok afterward.

The problem is that she trusts me but doesn't really TRUST me. 14 years of marriage and she still acts like I'm going to kill her at any moment (well not really but damn it feels like that sometimes) during sex.

I'm not that experienced - is this something to be alarmed about? She may just be doing this because she feels like she has to for me. I certainly don't want that.

(As an aside - the intro thread seems to be out of commission so I haven't gotten the change to introduce myself yet.)

J

 

[sr71plt]

Have a good divorce.

 

[Vixandra]

Props on building your own props but damn, if she can get her head anywhere near an eye bolt, that's a problem waiting to happen. Before you strap her into anything new, test it yourself- if you can possibly flail your head or hair near anything that will catch it, a redesign should be in order.

Intentionally inflicted pain is a good thing.
Pain from poor planning not so much.

As for the trust issue- have you tried talking to her about it in a non-sexual situation? Like over an afternoon snack or whenever her "alert" part of the day is?

Does she have clearly defined, easy to say safe words? I'm a fan of green means go, yellow means caution and red means stop! That gives the sub a method of tempering a scene without stopping it to belabor a point.

 

[Treasured]

Have a good divorce.

Yup. I was going to say the same thing.

I divorced the sadist I was married to.

And made sure the kids came with me and the courts agreed

 

[CutieMouse]

Ummm... I gotta say, that seems like a pretty elaborate set up for someone who

A) isn't into pain

and

B) a couple with little or no experience

It's lovely that you're discovering a desire for sadism, and that she's interested in D/s. But trussing the woman up and popping her with a cane is probably not the best way to gain her confidence.


If you aren't that experienced, don't do shit with a high failure rate until you get a little more experience - like use a CANE on someone who isn't into pain, instead of something less intense like a suede flogger or something.

 

[CutieMouse]

Have a good divorce.

Yup. I was going to say the same thing.

I divorced the sadist I was married to.

And made sure the kids came with me and the courts agreed

Being a sadist isn't a problem. Expecting a non-masochist to enjoy having pain inflicted on them but a inexperienced sadist... high potential for problems.

 

[Treasured]

Being a sadist isn't a problem. Expecting a non-masochist to enjoy having pain inflicted on them but a inexperienced sadist... high potential for problems.

That was my issue.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I don't know if alarming is the right word, but concerning might be. Not for reasons you may think. Honestly, you may need to seriously re-evaluate how you're approaching playtime and how it could be affecting her ability to trust you on a deeper level. Why does she still (seemingly) mistrust your ability to not kill her at any moment? Could it possibly that she tells you she's not big on pain, but you still reach for a cane without warmup and lay into her hard enough she's crying after? Testing on yourself is great, but you never hit other people like you hit yourself, and perception of sensation is personal. Even a practiced surgeon doesn't try to cut into the an abdomen in one slice...we go layer by layer because every patient is different.

If trust is an issue, find out why. She says she trusts you? She probably DOES. But it could be that what you are picking up on is subconscious. Ask a different question. "Am I scaring you?" "Am I respecting your pain limitations?". I don't know your marriage, but there is clearly a communication issue here in regards to your BDSM/sexual activities!

If she doesn't enjoy pain much, she IS taking it "just for you". That's her choice to make, and if she enjoys the D/s-dynamic, it could be she enjoys it for THAT. Pleasing you, even if it hurts. You just need to respect her limits!

As someone else suggested, find a different hitting implement. Canes are tricky, and suboptimal for people with a low pain limit. You can accomplish PLENTY of gradients of sensation and pain with less aggressive implements like soft floggers and your hand. Don't ever discount the hand... And do some read-up on using whatever implement you choose BEFORE trying it out!


I'm not sure what you mean when you're talking about the screw eye, or how your WTF reaction relates. Did she just accidentally hit herself on it? What's a screw eye doing that close to her face in the first place, even if it's not adjusted perfectly? I dont' really understand what happened here.

 

[Belvino]

I'm not sure what you mean when you're talking about the screw eye, or how your WTF reaction relates. Did she just accidentally hit herself on it? What's a screw eye doing that close to her face in the first place, even if it's not adjusted perfectly? I dont' really understand what happened here.

I am going to have to question that too.. how did she get that close to one? Seems to be a bit of a hazard.

 

[leatherleaf]

For those who chose to respond with smart ass answers and comments on divorce. Thank you. It was EXTREMELY helpful for someone who is asking for help. As someone who coaches others in other regards in life that's the one thing I've always taught - never lay into someone asking for help.

Anyway - back to subject at hand.

Sorry still learning this message board so here are the replies:

Props on building your own props but damn, if she can get her head anywhere near an eye bolt, that's a problem waiting to happen. Before you strap her into anything new, test it yourself- if you can possibly flail your head or hair near anything that will catch it, a redesign should be in order.

Intentionally inflicted pain is a good thing.
Pain from poor planning not so much.

As for the trust issue- have you tried talking to her about it in a non-sexual situation? Like over an afternoon snack or whenever her "alert" part of the day is?

Does she have clearly defined, easy to say safe words? I'm a fan of green means go, yellow means caution and red means stop! That gives the sub a method of tempering a scene without stopping it to belabor a point.

I tested it but just not very well. You are very right a redesign is in order. Its hard to adjust some things until the person is in them (I'm finding).

Yes I've tried talking to her but she says she doesn't know where this comes from.

And yes we use the standard color safewords. She knows them and when she goes into role we go over this. I've told her continuously that's the most important thing to me.

Thank you for your reply.

Ummm... I gotta say, that seems like a pretty elaborate set up for someone who

A) isn't into pain

and

B) a couple with little or no experience

It's lovely that you're discovering a desire for sadism, and that she's interested in D/s. But trussing the woman up and popping her with a cane is probably not the best way to gain her confidence.


If you aren't that experienced, don't do shit with a high failure rate until you get a little more experience - like use a CANE on someone who isn't into pain, instead of something less intense like a suede flogger or something.

Pain is on her ok list. The question is why did she put it there and do women react differently depending upon how they feel? I know the answer to that question. It sure would be nice to detect it beforehand. We went over the scene prior to.

We've done the flogger. We've done the hand. We've done the cane before. Warmup occurred! I thank you for your response but we've done some of these things. The reaction was different this time - that's all.

Being a sadist isn't a problem. Expecting a non-masochist to enjoy having pain inflicted on them but a inexperienced sadist... high potential for problems.

Please elaborate?! Do I need to find an experience sub to play with (don't think that will build trust with my wife)? Do I need to find a dom to show her and get her interested (no thanks)? How does one gain experience? You've clearly identified the problem - what's the solution? I know the problem damnit!

I don't know if alarming is the right word, but concerning might be. Not for reasons you may think. Honestly, you may need to seriously re-evaluate how you're approaching playtime and how it could be affecting her ability to trust you on a deeper level. Why does she still (seemingly) mistrust your ability to not kill her at any moment? Could it possibly that she tells you she's not big on pain, but you still reach for a cane without warmup and lay into her hard enough she's crying after? Testing on yourself is great, but you never hit other people like you hit yourself, and perception of sensation is personal. Even a practiced surgeon doesn't try to cut into the an abdomen in one slice...we go layer by layer because every patient is different.

If trust is an issue, find out why. She says she trusts you? She probably DOES. But it could be that what you are picking up on is subconscious. Ask a different question. "Am I scaring you?" "Am I respecting your pain limitations?". I don't know your marriage, but there is clearly a communication issue here in regards to your BDSM/sexual activities!

If she doesn't enjoy pain much, she IS taking it "just for you". That's her choice to make, and if she enjoys the D/s-dynamic, it could be she enjoys it for THAT. Pleasing you, even if it hurts. You just need to respect her limits!

As someone else suggested, find a different hitting implement. Canes are tricky, and suboptimal for people with a low pain limit. You can accomplish PLENTY of gradients of sensation and pain with less aggressive implements like soft floggers and your hand. Don't ever discount the hand... And do some read-up on using whatever implement you choose BEFORE trying it out!


I'm not sure what you mean when you're talking about the screw eye, or how your WTF reaction relates. Did she just accidentally hit herself on it? What's a screw eye doing that close to her face in the first place, even if it's not adjusted perfectly? I dont' really understand what happened here.

I agree. That's why I'm here asking for help. I could use other opinions to reevaluate. Why is the same level different from day to day, is it? There was warmup. Sorry if I gave the impression there wasn't.

I agree about the communication. Here's the problem as I see it. She likes this and she wants it and so do I but she'd rather go into a scene blind. She accuses me of "talking it to death". Now granted this was a 15 minute talk the night prior to. I don't consider that talking to death and I'm ASKING her. What do I do? I've considered just doing away with this aspect but its something she asks for and something I really want. Advice?

I did read and do agree in hindsight. Needless to say the cane has been put away for now (and maybe forever).

As for your last question the WTF was on my part on damn I screwed up (no pun intended)!

J

 

[MeekMe]

I just have to point out that you're a man and she is a woman. Women have more pain receptors and the same amount of force that felt ok to you felt a lot worse for her. Be aware of this when you test things. I don't have much else to add because I've never been canned.

As for her mistrust, sounds like she's aware of your inexperience. There are a lot of things I don't want my SO to do because I know he isn't experienced with it. We plan to learn together but it's a slow process. Perhaps taking things slower and allowing both of you to adjust is best.

 

[Stella_Omega]

BDSM isn't quite Rocket science, but it's more complicated than missionary humping. My first word of advice is; Don't hit anyone with something you've never been hit with.
Second, do some homework. Read the essay linked in my signature, and also these books;
The New Bottoming book, The New topping Book (yes, both of them) Screw the Roses Bring me the Thorns, and The Loving Dominant. They are all available on Amazon

Have her read them as well.

The tears might be perfectly fine, honestly. I cried like that the first times I bottomed because I had wanted those sensations for so long. Sometimes we have unexpected reactions to physical stimuli-- and she did say go on. But I think both of you need to be grownups and talk-- ask her about her tears, (I suggest "What made you tear up?" which is not the same as "Why were you crying) apologise for the eyebolt, and find out where she wants to go from here.

 

[MeekMe]

BDSM isn't quite Rocket science, but it's more complicated than missionary humping. My first word of advice is; Don't hit anyone with something you've never been hit with.
Second, do some homework. Read the essay linked in my signature, and also these books;
The New Bottoming book, The New topping Book (yes, both of them) Screw the Roses Bring me the Thorns, and The Loving Dominant. They are all available on Amazon

Have her read them as well.

The tears might be perfectly fine, honestly. I cried like that the first times I bottomed because I had wanted those sensations for so long. Sometimes we have unexpected reactions to physical stimuli-- and she did say go on. But I think both of you need to be grownups and talk-- ask her about her tears, (I suggest "What made you tear up?" which is not the same as "Why were you crying) apologise for the eyebolt, and find out where she wants to go from here.

I didn't think about this until reading your reply, Stella. I cried the first time Mister did some flogging. The pain wasn't causing it (not really painful) but the intensity caused me to cry. I was overwhelmed with feelings and found myself tearing up.

 

[leatherleaf]

I just have to point out that you're a man and she is a woman. Women have more pain receptors and the same amount of force that felt ok to you felt a lot worse for her. Be aware of this when you test things. I don't have much else to add because I've never been canned.

As for her mistrust, sounds like she's aware of your inexperience. There are a lot of things I don't want my SO to do because I know he isn't experienced with it. We plan to learn together but it's a slow process. Perhaps taking things slower and allowing both of you to adjust is best.

I guess that is true. I've always thought women were more resistant to pain but I guess it isn't a matter of resistance but rather sensitivity to certain types. For instance I can't take a throbbing pain like toothache but she just blows that off.

I agree with your second paragraph. But have a question. If there are certain things you don't want him to do because of inexperience will you ever do them? How does he gain the experience? I understand the going slow part. Maybe I didn't go as slow as needed. Learning process I guess.

J

 

[leatherleaf]

BDSM isn't quite Rocket science, but it's more complicated than missionary humping. My first word of advice is; Don't hit anyone with something you've never been hit with.
Second, do some homework. Read the essay linked in my signature, and also these books;
The New Bottoming book, The New topping Book (yes, both of them) Screw the Roses Bring me the Thorns, and The Loving Dominant. They are all available on Amazon

Have her read them as well.

The tears might be perfectly fine, honestly. I cried like that the first times I bottomed because I had wanted those sensations for so long. Sometimes we have unexpected reactions to physical stimuli-- and she did say go on. But I think both of you need to be grownups and talk-- ask her about her tears, (I suggest "What made you tear up?" which is not the same as "Why were you crying) apologise for the eyebolt, and find out where she wants to go from here.

Thanks for the link. Will read that. We both read SM101 (how appropriate!) by Jay Wiseman but I'm looking for more info. I appreciate the list.

She did say something to the effect that the tears were mostly emotions. I didn't know how to react to that. Was it that she was sad about it or what. Your reply makes more sense now. Because I did offer to stop about 4 times and reminded her of safewords and she insisted we continue.

I just apologized to her again (your recommendation) and a lot of guilt from the other posters here(!). She says "oh well it's a learning experience". The strange thing is that she feels bad for crying because she thinks she ruined it. I have assured her that the only wrong path is to do something she doesn't want to.

Thanks for your helpful response.

J

 

[CutieMouse]

Sometimes I cry because I'm in a rough place in my monthly cycle. Sometimes I cry because it's the only way I can let go. Sometimes I cry because dammit X hurts and I'm struggling to accept it (or my need for X to hurt). Sometimes I cry because X hurts and I like it.

If she says you talk things to death, stop. Have one last discussion (for example go over a checklist together, or have her write you a list of things she wants to try) and then drop it. *On the condition that she owns her shit and trusts you to do the research/ etc to do XYZ as safely as possible.*

For myself, discussions as in teasing foreplay work. A 15 minute "staff meeting" prior to doing things would be frustrating as hell, kill any interest I had, and (for me) not end well.

And NO, I don't recommend finding someone more experienced to play with as a learning tool. Learn together. There are books, youtube videos, local organizations, conferences. BOTH of you (IMO) should be learning and walking the path together.

 

[sr71plt]

For those who chose to respond with smart ass answers and comments on divorce. J

It wasn't smart ass. It was suggesting you are clueless and are either going to kill her or land in divorce court when she wakes up.

This sounds like something you want and she's just trying to go along with because you want it--and you are clueless about how to do it with anyone but yourself enjoying it and coming out of it unmaimed.

 

[MeekMe]

I guess that is true. I've always thought women were more resistant to pain but I guess it isn't a matter of resistance but rather sensitivity to certain types. For instance I can't take a throbbing pain like toothache but she just blows that off.

I agree with your second paragraph. But have a question. If there are certain things you don't want him to do because of inexperience will you ever do them? How does he gain the experience? I understand the going slow part. Maybe I didn't go as slow as needed. Learning process I guess.

J

At this point the experience comes with time. We are limited to simple things and everything we do we read about together before attempting it. More dangerous and advanced stuff is off the table.

I think each relationship is different. How I feel about experience may not be how your wife feels. I think if you communicate and come to an understanding you'll have a better time. Gaining experience is something you can do together, you just have to study and do the homework together, too.

Also, there are classes. Mentors and whatnot. Local group often have people who are experienced help teach techniques. Safety is so important, getting the right information is vital.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

She did say something to the effect that the tears were mostly emotions. I didn't know how to react to that. Was it that she was sad about it or what. Your reply makes more sense now. Because I did offer to stop about 4 times and reminded her of safewords and she insisted we continue.

I just apologized to her again (your recommendation) and a lot of guilt from the other posters here(!). She says "oh well it's a learning experience". The strange thing is that she feels bad for crying because she thinks she ruined it. I have assured her that the only wrong path is to do something she doesn't want to.

Thanks for your helpful response.

J

Sometimes people just cry and it's okay. In most societies, it's far more acceptable for women to do so for men, so I've found some men have a hard time understanding this. They think there's something "wrong" that needs to be "fixed". But, for whatever reason, the situation just generated tears. No big. Hell, you should see the waterworks that start if I get too into music in my car!! Doesn't mean the music needs to be changed! (In fact, I'll probably maul you if you try)

I don't think you should brush this occurrence off, but at this point, it seems like the time to angst about it has passed As your wife said, "it's a learning experience". Use it as such and move forward!

As a side note, I don't know your wife, but my partner constantly asking me if I'm okay (in any context), assuming something needs fixing, and disregarding my assurances is INCREDIBLY irritated and borderline disrespectful. You want your wife to trust you, but you aren't extending her the SAME trust to know herself. This is the trust the PYL needs to have. Give her that I know my playtime improved CONSIDERABLY when my partner finally put that trust in me!

 

[IrisAlthea]

Sometimes I cry because I'm in a rough place in my monthly cycle. Sometimes I cry because it's the only way I can let go. Sometimes I cry because dammit X hurts and I'm struggling to accept it (or my need for X to hurt). Sometimes I cry because X hurts and I like it.

If she says you talk things to death, stop. Have one last discussion (for example go over a checklist together, or have her write you a list of things she wants to try) and then drop it. *On the condition that she owns her shit and trusts you to do the research/ etc to do XYZ as safely as possible.*

For myself, discussions as in teasing foreplay work. A 15 minute "staff meeting" prior to doing things would be frustrating as hell, kill any interest I had, and (for me) not end well.

And NO, I don't recommend finding someone more experienced to play with as a learning tool. Learn together. There are books, youtube videos, local organizations, conferences. BOTH of you (IMO) should be learning and walking the path together.

This!
Also, people handle pain differently at different times. Mood, hormonal cycles, health, time of day all can affect how you react to a certain type of pain and how much you can take.

There is absolutely a learning curve like you said and trust takes time.
While you may have been married for a long time, I guess you are new to this so while she may trust you generally, it will take some time before she trusts you to do this thing well.
I have been married to my husband for a very long time and would be a bit nervous if he decided to give me a haircut for example.

 

[knot_sweet]

It sounds like you're trying very hard to be careful and cautious and considerate, so kudos (don't mean that to sound patronisisng at all)

And yeah, over talking it can really take some of the good edge off. It's sometimes a case of less is more. And if she prefers to go in blind, maybe it's so she doesn't have time to get overly worked up or afraid. Anticipation is one thing, marinating in it just doesn't work for some people, and maybe your wife is one of them?

On the crying issue: We're women, we cry for a zillion reasons, many of them nothing bad.

Oddly enough, during sex / play they usually aren't bad reasons.

Honest, if she hasn't safed, it's good tears.

So unless you find it disturbing, it's all good and keep on keeping on.

 

[Que]

Yup. I was going to say the same thing.

I divorced the sadist I was married to.

And made sure the kids came with me and the courts agreed

So in your view, sadists should be what? Executed?

As I understand it he's asking about consensual play. It sounded to me like he's going out of his way to try to make sure that it is truly consensual...

Sounds like you think your husband was a dick and the court agreed with you the fact that he was a sadist may or may not have had something to do with the apparently readily observable fact that he was a dick.

Nothing like a submissive defining the acceptable parameters of dominance.

You get to decide when and if and in what manner you choose to submit.

You don't get to decide everyone else's play.

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

When we are looking at trying something new, Master will ask me to write scenarios as to how I see the scene developing, that way he gets an idea of how my mind is working and understands what I want from the scene.
After he will ask me to write about what took place, what was good and bad and why. We have moved forwards a lot by doing this. He understands that even though I say Owwww and wriggle and dislike the pain, I am enduring it for him, and until I safeword, he can keep going.
I find writing better than a conversation. I have time to sort through my feelings and come up with reasoned responses.

I have cried during an intense scene. I wasn't unhappy, it is like all my bottled up emotions came flooding out. For someone who doesn't cry much, it was a shock!

 

[bhndblueyes88]

This!

I have been married to my husband for a very long time and would be a bit nervous if he decided to give me a haircut for example.

^---I wish I could "Like" this. A much more straightforward statement of what I was trying to say!

Someone should give me a character limit...

 

[Oubliette123]

Experience is just time really.

From a woman's point of view and the pain threshold thing-we are complicated beings ref the monthly cycle. Not just physically but emotionally too, and sometimes we aren't even aware of it. There are times during the month (pre menstral, ie a couple of days before a period) where if my PYL decides to initiate sex he is likely to get a hatchet through his head.
I notice my pain threshold dips drastically a few days before a period too, and I have once had to stop myself throwing up from one strike of the crop, yet other times I can take it for ages. Its all relative.

The tears? I think they are a perfectly normal reaction to the pain, tears aren't black and white-there are lots of grey areas. I often find myself a snivelling mess at the end of a session, but its all release tears for me.

Myself and my OH have worked through our BDSM needs together for years, its taken a long time to be able to read the signals we send each other, what to try, if we like it and when we both engage in play time. We started off slowly and even now still check with each other if everything in that session was ok.

One thing is for certain though, everyone in this lifestyle will go through the transition of fantasy to reality. There is a big difference between the two, so experiment and take baby steps and keep communicating, especially after when you both have time to reflect