Etiquette

[Trinique_Fire]

Hey all. This isn't my regular forum, and though I've been on Lit for ten years now and have been in and out of BDSM life on many levels for many years, I haven't felt the need to come here and ask questions or really get involved in the threads here.

Recently, however, I came across a couple of...ways of thinking, shall we say, that I generally have learned/been taught aren't good BDSM etiquette. I'd like to hear what some of you think, based on your own teachings or what you've learned.

1) A Dom(me)/sub relationship was entered into, unbeknownst to the "sub" in the situation. Now, what I was always taught was that a Dom(me)/sub situation was not to be taken lightly. You don't just take on a submissive without discussing it with your potential sub. Right...?

2) Now, if you're a sub and your Dom(me) has His or Her own Dom(me), are you expected to address your Dom(me)'s Dom(me) as Sir/Ma'am/etc etc? I never was, and it seems unorthodox.

Thoughts?

 

[ecstaticsub]

1) For a power exchange relationship to occur a submissive has to give up power to the Dominant. I can't see how this could happen without the submissive's knowledge. A Dominant can't say pronounce themselves as a certain sub's Dom/me.

2) If my Dominant had a Dominant of his own and he ordered me to address his Dominant as Sir/Master whatever than I would obey. If my Dominant ordered me to obey all things that his own Dominant ordered of me...well, that would bring on a discussion. I would need to know if I only needed to obey during a scene, thus my Dom's Dom would be my Top in those cases and not my Dominant. Or was I expected to always obey him in and out of scene thus meaning I would have 2 Dominants. I would have to agree to that before my Dom's Dom could expect me to obey.

I hope that made sense

 

[Trinique_Fire]

1) For a power exchange relationship to occur a submissive has to give up power to the Dominant. I can't see how this could happen without the submissive's knowledge. A Dominant can't say pronounce themselves as a certain sub's Dom/me.

2) If my Dominant had a Dominant of his own and he ordered me to address his Dominant as Sir/Master whatever than I would obey. If my Dominant ordered me to obey all things that his own Dominant ordered of me...well, that would bring on a discussion. I would need to know if I only needed to obey during a scene, thus my Dom's Dom would be my Top in those cases and not my Dominant. Or was I expected to always obey him in and out of scene thus meaning I would have 2 Dominants. I would have to agree to that before my Dom's Dom could expect me to obey.

I hope that made sense

It makes sense for your situation, and believe me, I know that every D/s relationship varies depending on values and beliefs.

However, if you had no involvement with your D's D, and in fact the two relationships were totally separate, and suddenly you were approached one day by your D's D and were essentially ordered by a Dom(me) that wasn't yours that you were to address him/her as Sir/Ma'am, wouldn't that seem out of line?

 

[Stella_Omega]

It makes sense for your situation, and believe me, I know that every D/s relationship varies depending on values and beliefs.

However, if you had no involvement with your D's D, and in fact the two relationships were totally separate, and suddenly you were approached one day by your D's D and were essentially ordered by a Dom(me) that wasn't yours that you were to address him/her as Sir/Ma'am, wouldn't that seem out of line?

Absolutely out of line. Not that any of us have ever crossed that line ourselves... or been shot down for it, nossir. Wasn't me!

Oh, who am I kidding? Of course it was me, and I learn best by experience.

 

[ecstaticsub]

It makes sense for your situation, and believe me, I know that every D/s relationship varies depending on values and beliefs.

However, if you had no involvement with your D's D, and in fact the two relationships were totally separate, and suddenly you were approached one day by your D's D and were essentially ordered by a Dom(me) that wasn't yours that you were to address him/her as Sir/Ma'am, wouldn't that seem out of line?

Yes, that would be out of line. I only obey my own dominant. Every other Tom, Dick or Harry would be addressed as Tom, Dick or Harry.

 

[desertslave]

It makes sense for your situation, and believe me, I know that every D/s relationship varies depending on values and beliefs.

However, if you had no involvement with your D's D, and in fact the two relationships were totally separate, and suddenly you were approached one day by your D's D and were essentially ordered by a Dom(me) that wasn't yours that you were to address him/her as Sir/Ma'am, wouldn't that seem out of line?

That would be out for me, too. I once belonged to a switch who was my Dom. He also served as another Dom's sub. I was friends with the other Dom but, beyond common respect, I was never expected to serve or obey him in any way, UNLESS we, all three, participated in a scene together, with the temporary rules spelled out beforehand.

I'm boggling over the first question. How can a D/s relationship be entered into unknowingly (except maybe in a hot story on here)???

 

[marieR19]

1) A Dom(me)/sub relationship was entered into, unbeknownst to the "sub" in the situation. Now, what I was always taught was that a Dom(me)/sub situation was not to be taken lightly. You don't just take on a submissive without discussing it with your potential sub. Right...?

With only that amount of information, I'd say that's NOT a D/s relationship, that's a setup for abuse. What I'm reading here is that a Dom just suddenly decided that so-and-so was going to be their sub. Without asking the sub if they wanted it, without negotiation/limits/safeword/etc. If that's so, that's NOT bdsm in any way. That's an asshole trying to get away with being an asshole.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Hey all. This isn't my regular forum, and though I've been on Lit for ten years now and have been in and out of BDSM life on many levels for many years, I haven't felt the need to come here and ask questions or really get involved in the threads here.

Recently, however, I came across a couple of...ways of thinking, shall we say, that I generally have learned/been taught aren't good BDSM etiquette. I'd like to hear what some of you think, based on your own teachings or what you've learned.

1) A Dom(me)/sub relationship was entered into, unbeknownst to the "sub" in the situation. Now, what I was always taught was that a Dom(me)/sub situation was not to be taken lightly. You don't just take on a submissive without discussing it with your potential sub. Right...?

2) Now, if you're a sub and your Dom(me) has His or Her own Dom(me), are you expected to address your Dom(me)'s Dom(me) as Sir/Ma'am/etc etc? I never was, and it seems unorthodox.

Thoughts?

Welcome, T_F. Stop in more often, and share your experiences and knowledge with us, please! We get lots of folks coming in with *no* experience, and I'm sure your point of view might help some of them understand what they're getting into and where they might be going with it!

Now, regarding your questions:

1. I cannot wrap my mind around a way of thinking that would define this as anything other than abuse or abduction. A PYL/pyl relationship must be consensual. Full stop.
2. This, OTOH, seems much more flexible. In a social situation, I address other PYLs' pyls as ma'am or sir in conversation unless they (or their PYL) say(s), "Call him/her Sidney/Sydney"... but then, I was raised in the 50s and 60s, and social conventions were very different than they are now. Were I pyl (I'm not - I'm PYL/Sadist), I would probably tend to address my PYL's PYL as Ma'am or Sir, but from the standpoint of my upbringing much more than from BDSM relationship. That person would not be *my* PYL, unless that arrangement had previously been made, so the *tone* of the word would be very different.

Orthodoxy (please note that I do *not* consider the first scenario described as a matter of orthodoxy!), particularly in regard to personal address, seems to vary depending on which part of the country (and perhaps which country!) one is in. I don't think it's important enough to make a big hoorah about; I'd most likely just go along with whatever seems to be the local standard ("When in Rome...").

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Welcome, T_F. Stop in more often, and share your experiences and knowledge with us, please! We get lots of folks coming in with *no* experience, and I'm sure your point of view might help some of them understand what they're getting into and where they might be going with it!

Now, regarding your questions:

1. I cannot wrap my mind around a way of thinking that would define this as anything other than abuse or abduction. A PYL/pyl relationship must be consensual. Full stop.
2. This, OTOH, seems much more flexible. In a social situation, I address other PYLs' pyls as ma'am or sir in conversation unless they (or their PYL) say(s), "Call him/her Sidney/Sydney"... but then, I was raised in the 50s and 60s, and social conventions were very different than they are now. Were I pyl (I'm not - I'm PYL/Sadist), I would probably tend to address my PYL's PYL as Ma'am or Sir, but from the standpoint of my upbringing much more than from BDSM relationship. That person would not be *my* PYL, unless that arrangement had previously been made, so the *tone* of the word would be very different.

Orthodoxy (please note that I do *not* consider the first scenario described as a matter of orthodoxy!), particularly in regard to personal address, seems to vary depending on which part of the country (and perhaps which country!) one is in. I don't think it's important enough to make a big hoorah about; I'd most likely just go along with whatever seems to be the local standard ("When in Rome...").

Hey S_W! Thanks for adding your thoughts to the thread. I think I will come here more often. I've forgotten a little bit why and how much I enjoy(ed) the life. It appeals to that part of me that enjoys tradition, discipline, and escapism. It is the foundation for my novel, and I understand myself enough psychologically to know why I am so at home in this world. Thanks for welcoming me back. My wife and I have played a couple times, and I've gone deeper with her than I ever had before. Entering sub space can be a little addicting.

With only that amount of information, I'd say that's NOT a D/s relationship, that's a setup for abuse. What I'm reading here is that a Dom just suddenly decided that so-and-so was going to be their sub. Without asking the sub if they wanted it, without negotiation/limits/safeword/etc. If that's so, that's NOT bdsm in any way. That's an asshole trying to get away with being an asshole.

I pretty much read it as an abuse of power as well. It just seemed so...improper and unbalanced. Thanks for your thoughts.

That would be out for me, too. I once belonged to a switch who was my Dom. He also served as another Dom's sub. I was friends with the other Dom but, beyond common respect, I was never expected to serve or obey him in any way, UNLESS we, all three, participated in a scene together, with the temporary rules spelled out beforehand.

I'm boggling over the first question. How can a D/s relationship be entered into unknowingly (except maybe in a hot story on here)???

Same here. When I was a sub (and not a very good one at the time...I had no discipline whatsoever and no patience), I was friends with my D's D. Nothing more. It was a non-sexual, comfortable relationship, and in many ways he was a positive role model in my life.

As for the first question, it was pretty much decided by the D in the situation and then was just sort of sprung onto the sub in the situation. Pretty unethical, it seems...
Thanks for your thoughts!

Yes, that would be out of line. I only obey my own dominant. Every other Tom, Dick or Harry would be addressed as Tom, Dick or Harry.

LMFAO ^^ YES!!! Thanks for your thoughts.

Absolutely out of line. Not that any of us have ever crossed that line ourselves... or been shot down for it, nossir. Wasn't me!

Oh, who am I kidding? Of course it was me, and I learn best by experience.

Stella, you naughty thing, you.
You make me all and

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[BiBunny]

With only that amount of information, I'd say that's NOT a D/s relationship, that's a setup for abuse. What I'm reading here is that a Dom just suddenly decided that so-and-so was going to be their sub. Without asking the sub if they wanted it, without negotiation/limits/safeword/etc. If that's so, that's NOT bdsm in any way. That's an asshole trying to get away with being an asshole.

I wouldn't call it abusive so much as childish. You know, like how you have 12 "boyfriends" in kindergarten, but they have no idea they're your "boyfriends"? That's pretty much exactly what it sounds like.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

I wouldn't call it abusive so much as childish. You know, like how you have 12 "boyfriends" in kindergarten, but they have no idea they're you're "boyfriends"? That's pretty much exactly what it sounds like.

On the nosey.