Nudist Or Child Porn?

R. Richard

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Nudist dad facing child porn charges says photos are 'family portraits'

A South Florida nudist, arrested on charges that he helped take pornographic photographs of his three young daughters and shared them with other men, is putting on an unusual defense.

Brian Martens, 53, who was living at a nudist colony in Palm Beach County, is arguing that there is nothing pornographic about the pictures and that they are regular family portraits of a naturist family.

Federal prosecutors say they believe several of the photographs are clearly inappropriate and the final judgment call should lie with a trial jury. A grand jury has already voted there was enough evidence to indict Martens on one count of producing child pornography and one count of receiving child pornography.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Bill Matthewman agreed with the U.S. Attorney's Office after reviewing the photographs during a hearing Wednesday in federal court in West Palm Beach.

"Several of these photos the court has reviewed are lascivious. … They are, in the court's opinion, sexually explicit," Matthewman said.

The judge ordered Martens detained without bond pending his trial — on the grounds that he is a serious flight risk and poses "a clear risk of danger to the community, and specifically to his daughters."

Federal agents from Homeland Security Investigations began scrutinizing Martens earlier this year when they found inappropriate photographs of his daughters on a computer that belonged to Leslie Grey Vanaman, 44, a neighbor of Martens in the private, gated Sunsport Gardens Family Naturist Resort in Loxahatchee Groves in western Palm Beach County. The girls were between ages 8 and 12 when the photographs were taken, prosecutors said.

Marten's attorney James Eisenberg agreed that one of the photographs is child pornography — one the judge described as a close-up shot of one of the girl's genital area — but said his client did not know the photograph was taken and never gave his permission for it to be shot. Martens hired a professional family photographer to take family portraits, Eisenberg said.

"The girls have no clothes on … but they're not doing anything of a sexual nature," Eisenberg said. "If they were young ladies who had clothing on, no one would consider them pornographic."

"Totally nude … is the normal state of all the people who live there," Eisenberg said. "In the context that everybody in this family are naturists … these photos are not lewd or pornographic in any way."

Martens, who was arrested Oct. 29, would face between 15 and 30 years in federal prison if convicted of the child porn production charge, and five to 20 years if convicted of receiving child pornography. He has pleaded not guilty to both charges.

Vanaman, who billed himself as a professional photographer and owned A Shade of Grey Photography, was arrested on child porn production and receipt charges earlier this year.

Vanaman is serving 60 years in federal prison after he pleaded guilty to charges of receiving and possessing child pornography — including the photographs of Martens' daughters and other children, prosecutors said. Vanaman already had a 2004 state conviction in New Jersey of possessing child pornography downloaded from the Internet, court records show.

When agents questioned Martens about the photographs in April, he told them he did not know that any inappropriate photographs had been taken, Assistant U.S. Attorney Brandy Brentari Galler said.

"He cried as he viewed the images," Galler said.

Martens told the agents he only gave permission for Vanaman to take naturist photos.

But further analysis of Vanaman's computer revealed a very different story, Galler told the judge. Martens had signed releases and received on several occasions more than 50 photographs that contained child pornography of the three girls taken between 2010 and 2012, Galler said.

Agents also found emails between Martens, Vanaman and a third man in which they discussed Vanaman's "craft" and "the sensuality and sexuality" of the images.

Martens wrote about "using his daughters as a passport " and said they "opened doors" for him in the naturist community, Galler told the judge.

The photographs did not depict any sexual activity and included no images of overt sexual abuse or adults sexually abusing children, prosecutors and agents said. Indeed, some of the photographs showed the children innocently baking cookies while naked, they said.
 
Doesn't matter what his beliefs are showing an adult nude pictures of children is child pornography.

Also what should be taken into consideration is his daughters are to young to be able to consent to dad showing pictures of them.

I know nudists obviously have a different view of the human body, but um, hello? Common sense calling?

I'm not saying the guy is a perv in the pedophile sense, but his stupidity alone should get him arrested.

"If they were young ladies with clothing on no one would consider them pornographic"

Man, that is classic stupid right there.
 
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I have seen plenty of photos of naked little children. Mostly vacation photos, taken on the beach. Not even nude beaches. Is even that child porn now? People sometimes have photos of their naked children on display. Does that make anyone who visits them guilty of a crime?

It's just ridiculous to think that any photo of a naked person is pornographic by nature. Or that any photo of a naked child is child pornography.

Children not being able to give consent? Of course not. But then no photos of children should be taken, because they can never consent to having their photo taken. Clothes or no clothes is mostly irrelevant.

For this case, without seeing the photos I'm not going to give an opinion on whether it's pornographic or not. A 10, 12 year old girl in a family that walks around naked all the time baking cookies, that sounds like her doing what she does. Nothing erotic about that.

There is definitely a grey area between porn and not porn, but it's also not too hard to stay out of that grey area if you don't intend to make anything pornographic. This kind of over-reaction on anything that even remotely touches child sex issues is to me getting more scary than the child sex issue itself.
 
Well, when you give the photos out to your neighbors for them to put on their computers, it's no longer just "natural" fun. I think the distribution is what nails it. Interesting to see the "know it when I see it" effect that judges are permitted to use being put into effect.
 
Well, when you give the photos out to your neighbors for them to put on their computers, it's no longer just "natural" fun. I think the distribution is what nails it. Interesting to see the "know it when I see it" effect that judges are permitted to use being put into effect.

That's the nail in the coffin.

Nude pictures of your kids found on YOUR computer might be overlooked if you are truly a nudist, but sending them around is a whole new ballgame.

There was a case in NJ where, trying to make an example, A judge charged a 16 year old girl as a sex offender for sending around pictures of her tits to boys her age and a little younger. What happens at home needs to stay at home.
 
Unless there are more details than are given in the original post, I would find it difficult to decide.

The context is important, as are details from any emails that went with the images. As with many court cases, the difference between what is reported and what the jurors were actually presented with can be significant.

The reporting can be skewed to make the story more salacious.
 
Unless there are more details than are given in the original post, I would find it difficult to decide.

The context is important, as are details from any emails that went with the images. As with many court cases, the difference between what is reported and what the jurors were actually presented with can be significant.

The reporting can be skewed to make the story more salacious.

If Fox picks it up we'll know its true!
 
Well, when you give the photos out to your neighbors for them to put on their computers, it's no longer just "natural" fun. I think the distribution is what nails it. Interesting to see the "know it when I see it" effect that judges are permitted to use being put into effect.

You never send your vacation or personal pictures to friends? For a naturist, this are perfectly normal vacation pictures. So it's not surprising if they'd send it to friends, presumably also naturists who were at the same vacation.

Distributing an image doesn't make it any more or less pornographic.

The main difference between theirs and "regular" vacation photos is some bathing suits - hiding only the skin tone from view, no body shapes or anything. But somehow seeing the exact outlines of one's body is perfectly OK, as long as you don't see the skin itself. That's also quite strange.
 
You never send your vacation or personal pictures to friends? For a naturist, this are perfectly normal vacation pictures. So it's not surprising if they'd send it to friends, presumably also naturists who were at the same vacation.

Distributing an image doesn't make it any more or less pornographic.

The main difference between theirs and "regular" vacation photos is some bathing suits - hiding only the skin tone from view, no body shapes or anything. But somehow seeing the exact outlines of one's body is perfectly OK, as long as you don't see the skin itself. That's also quite strange.

Nope, I never have. I'm a technical dunce. But don't kid yourself. Sending naked pictures of children--yours or anyone else's--to other men will get you sent to the slammer. If you're doing it, you'd better start packing.

We just had an associate university dean in my town tracked down and charged with distribution of child porn yesterday. I'll bet he was as surprised as you seem to be.
 
You never send your vacation or personal pictures to friends? For a naturist, this are perfectly normal vacation pictures. So it's not surprising if they'd send it to friends, presumably also naturists who were at the same vacation...

I must admit to being in two minds about this for that reason. A person living a nudist lifestyle don't view nudity in the same way as the rest of us - to them it's a normal way of "dressing" and they don't see anything implicitly sexual in it. A nudist guy can walk around surrounded by naked women all day without any deviation from normal flaccidity while a non-nudist in a similar situation would have a seriously hard time.

This could easily be a simple case of poor judgement...
 
I don't think it's a matter of how nudists view it. They can probably get away with sending all of the photos of themselves that they want. Society doesn't let them make those decisions for children--even their own. They don't have a vote. They distribute it and they'll be put in the slammer if the system can get them. It's interesting that folks here would think they have a vote in that. Naïve but interesting.
 
Society doesn't let them make those decisions for children--even their own. They don't have a vote. They distribute it and they'll be put in the slammer if the system can get them. It's interesting that folks here would think they have a vote in that. Naïve but interesting.

But maybe this is an area where society's got it wrong. Child molestation is a very serious crime and shouldn't be thrown around lightly. The nudity alone should not suffice as evidence in this case.
 
Maybe so. Not sure what that has to do with any reality, though.

And I think you need to reread the article. The charge isn't merely for the children being nude. It's for taking the photos of them, and, the real kicker, "shared them with other men." That's distribution. That's actionable.

Didn't you read the article?
 
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Maybe so. Not sure what that has to do with any reality, though.

And I think you need to reread the article. The charge isn't merely for the children being nude. It's for taking the photos of them, and, the real kicker, "shared them with other men."

Didn't you read the article?

I did, and the sharing is precisely what I would deem the "poor judgement"-part. To a nudist those pictures may not be anything special - it would be like you or I showing pictures of our families fully clothed. If you're living a certain lifestyle it's easy to forget that other people have different standards.

These laws were put in place for a noble and singular purpose - in order to protect kids from sexual abuse. They represent a very powerful "legal gun" and should be used with the respect and care that a serious crime demands. From what I can read this just doesn't sound like such a crime to me.
 
IFrom what I can read this just doesn't sound like such a crime to me.

Then I think you need to be very careful what you do in the future. If not, you're going to be in for one hell of a surprise when you find out how much what you think about it matters where it counts.
 
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Then I think you need to be very careful what you do in the future. If not, you're going to be in for one hell of a surprise when you find out how much what you think about it matters where it counts.

What I (and everybody else) think matters because most cases of prosecutorial over-reach is a direct result of populistic encouragement.
 
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And that's just ducky with me. It's not my funeral :rolleyes:

I think this might be a case where Darwinism comes into play. :D
 
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And that's just ducky with me. It's not my funeral :rolleyes:

I think this might be a case where Darwinism comes into play. :D

Oh, I can defend other people without putting myself in the same situation as them.

For instance I'm a strong proponent of equal rights for gays too, yet I've never felt the need to engage in their lifestyle. Of course I might be persuaded if a lesbian couple needed hunk of man-beef for a sandwich... :rolleyes:
 
Maybe so. Not sure what that has to do with any reality, though.

And I think you need to reread the article. The charge isn't merely for the children being nude. It's for taking the photos of them, and, the real kicker, "shared them with other men." That's distribution. That's actionable.

Didn't you read the article?

The sickening part is where mere nudity is made into porn. Nude photos are not necessarily pornographic, not even when they're from children.

Photos of child molestation, make that photos of any molestation, that'd be actionable.
 
You never send your vacation or personal pictures to friends? For a naturist, this are perfectly normal vacation pictures. So it's not surprising if they'd send it to friends, presumably also naturists who were at the same vacation.

Distributing an image doesn't make it any more or less pornographic.

The main difference between theirs and "regular" vacation photos is some bathing suits - hiding only the skin tone from view, no body shapes or anything. But somehow seeing the exact outlines of one's body is perfectly OK, as long as you don't see the skin itself. That's also quite strange.

I understand your point, but here is mine

These kids are minors. If they are nude all the time its because of their parents it is not their choice as of yet.

As time goes on they may embrace that lifestyle on their own or turn away from it.

meanwhile they are children with no consent or say in naked pictures of them being sent around.

how would you like to be a30 year old man or woman, maybe in a fairly serious career and discover a bunch of people have naked pictures of you as a child?

I said before its total lack of common sense on the parents behalf and to repeat my point just now, these kids are nude because mommy and daddy tell them to be nude.

There could be a case for a form of abuse here.

I would not take it that far personally, but there is room for it.

also I still want the close up of the girls genitals explained.
 
I understand your point, but here is mine

These kids are minors. If they are nude all the time its because of their parents it is not their choice as of yet.

As time goes on they may embrace that lifestyle on their own or turn away from it.

Being brought up according to their parents standards and beliefs is the lot of any child. Some are brought up in a strict religious environment, some live with a family that eats only vegetarian food, some live in a society that rejects modern technology, some travel around with their family and live on military bases, some are brought up to appreciate shooting and hunting and so on. But a common trait is, that none of them get a vote. Their parents decide and that's an important part of how we maintain the diversity in our society.

And as you say - once you grow up you can choose your own path in life and even reject your parental upbringing completely, if you so prefer. But until then, your parents speak for you.




...meanwhile they are children with no consent or say in naked pictures of them being sent around.

how would you like to be a30 year old man or woman, maybe in a fairly serious career and discover a bunch of people have naked pictures of you as a child?

There are many pictures of me as a child in albums by various family members and friends, and I assume this to be true for most people. That's not something that could ever come back to haunt me later in life or damage my career in any way,- even if they were on the internet. In fact, unless my name was printed on the picture nobody would even know that that ten year old boy is me.


Of course that doesn't make sending out the pictures in question ok - at the very least it was poor judgement - but the lifestyle of the parents should definitely be taken into consideration when deciding on a case like this one.
 
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Being brought up according to their parents standards and beliefs is the lot of any child. Some are brought up in a strict religious environment, some live with a family that eats only vegetarian food, some live in a society that rejects modern technology, some travel around with their family and live on military bases, some are brought up to appreciate shooting and hunting and so on. But a common trait is, that none of them get a vote. Their parents decide and that's an important part of how we maintain the diversity in our society.

And as you say - once you grow up you can choose your own path in life and even reject your parental upbringing completely, if you so prefer. But until then, your parents speak for you.






There are many pictures of me as a child in albums by various family members and friends, and I assume this to be true for most people. That's not something that could ever come back to haunt me later in life or damage my career in any way,- even if they were on the internet. In fact, unless my name was printed on the picture nobody would even know that that ten year old boy is me.


Of course that doesn't make sending out the pictures in question ok - at the very least it was poor judgement - but the lifestyle of the parents should definitely be taken into consideration when deciding on a case like this one.

I agree many are raised with a family tradition/belief forced upon us. Especially religion. My wife gets pissed at me because she has a girl friend that is literally brainwashing her kids with religion including homosexuality is a sin and I have called her out on the fact she is raising "haters"

As for there being pictures of all of us as kids?

Of course there are and embarrassing ones that the moms always whip up out at bad times. And I am sure some relatives and maybe a couple of close family friends have them.

But are there pictures of you naked at the age of 12? Big difference.

I have no issue with their lifestyle. Too each their own.

But they have to understand society at large still exists and some basic rules/ideas and even prejudices right or wrong exist as well and some thought needs to be given as far as how far you push your lifestyle choice.

My thought this ends badly for them and it won't be for the choice of lifestyle, but poor choices period.
 
I agree many are raised with a family tradition/belief forced upon us. Especially religion. My wife gets pissed at me because she has a girl friend that is literally brainwashing her kids with religion including homosexuality is a sin and I have called her out on the fact she is raising "haters"

Ain't fundamentalists just wonderful? :rolleyes:

I had a related problem when my son was born. I refused to allow circumcision and basically told everybody that the first person to come near my son with a cutting tool would be staring down two 12 gauge barrels. It was long ago - some of the older members of my family are still pissed at me to this day for going against the main stream, but I made a parental decision.




But are there pictures of you naked at the age of 12? Big difference.

Nah, I was probably 8 on the most recent. We weren't nudists, but we lived right next to the ocean and we young kids rarely bothered with bathing suits.

But you're right of course - there's a big difference between 8 and 12.




But they have to understand society at large still exists and some basic rules/ideas and even prejudices right or wrong exist as well and some thought needs to be given as far as how far you push your lifestyle choice.

I agree, but calling it "child pornography" is a huge step backwards. That law was made in order to punish people who knowingly exploit children for sexual gratification or financial gain and comes with a serious set of life-altering consequences. You don't set this kind of machinery in motion because a parent makes a poor decision.
 
From time to time, I see images of very young unclothed children - babies even - in TV commercials. I do not find such pictures to be erotic, and they are certainly not illegal. Of course, they would never show genitals.

Have you ever seen the Coppertone ad featuring the bare bottom of the little girl? Is that child porn?
 
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Well, certainly, you can try that argument with a judge if you're pulled in front of one. Another "voter" against reality?
 
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