Boss-Employee Gap Legislation

[jeninflorida]

That, and Walmart is paying people so little that it's not enough for them to live off - which means the government is subsidizing the cost of people's living.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/walmart-taxpayers-house-report_n_3365814.html

It boggles me, completely, how anyone can see that is NOT a problem, and that they're NOT paying people too little.

Dont take a job at wal mart

 

[Recidiva]

That, and Walmart is paying people so little that it's not enough for them to live off - which means the government is subsidizing the cost of people's living.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/walmart-taxpayers-house-report_n_3365814.html

It boggles me, completely, how anyone can see that is NOT a problem, and that they're NOT paying people too little.

This is a beyond reasonable expectation and the only opposition to it appears to be the same sort of lack of responsibility that made car makers say that putting seat belts in cars would be too much of a financial burden and they are under no obligation to provide safety features.

That's all I can figure.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Botany, I occasionally think about others. That whole post was about you. I am not thinking about you, but others. This is not about you or me.

Oh it is about you, me and every single person that lives in the 1st world.

This is about how I think that other people are accountable and I can support making them accountable.

MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT?????? YOU PAY THEM TO DO IT!!!!

If you want to be overtly selfish, fine. If you want to extend it to where I'm somehow selfish and hurting the big bad WalMart with my icky conscience, then that's where my interest in your opinion ends.

I'm not calling your selfish you dumb twat....I'm calling you a hypocrite.

If you live in the 1st world like it or not you benefit from off WalMart and companies like them that use cheap 3rd world labor....

The only reason you have a smart phone or a computer to get on the internet in the first fucking place is because of cheap ass brown/yellow labor....

The only reason you can afford the vast majority of the shit you own that makes your life so fucking wonderful is because of cheap ass labor.

The fact that that's the way it is doesn't make it ok.

It's ok enough for people to give them their money for the cheap goods.....that's all that matters when you get down to the nitty gritty now isn't it?

I absolutely am willing to give up some of my wealth so that people in other countries can have basic things like clean water.

Then mail that check off to induugu bubba...I'm not going to bash you for it but don't try and act like you don't benefit from cheap labor in foreign countries. There is like a 99.99999% chance cheap labor is why you're accessing the internet or keeping the food in your fridge from spoiling.....wash your clothes...vac your carpets....etc etc.

I've talked about this before. I don't buy things that are made by slave labor. I don't eat factory farm food. I volunteer for charities and send what little I can to places like "Under One Sky" or "Project Heifer" because not doing so is ridiculous.

That's all very noble but it's so ubiquitous it's practically impossible to avoid benefiting from cheap foreign labor and live in any 1st world nation.

I'm a bad person. I am flat broke by American standards- well under the poverty line, and I can do basic shit like that. So anyone can.

I'm not saying they can't....I'm saying they can't avoid the fact the only reason they can in the first place is b/c of that cheap labor.

 

[bg23]

This is a beyond reasonable expectation and the only opposition to it appears to be the same sort of lack of responsibility that made car makers say that putting seat belts in cars would be too much of a financial burden and they are under no obligation to provide safety features.

That's all I can figure.

Exactly.

It's all well and good for people to claim, "Minimum wage shouldn't be enough to live on, it's not meant to be permanent, people are supposed to work up from there."

But you know what? Some people can't. Some people, for whatever reason, can't move up. They're not smart enough, not skilled enough, pretty enough, or there's just no room to move up. And so there are ALWAYS going to be people who can't get anything but minimum wage jobs.

And those people should be punished? We should punish people for working 40 hours a week and not being able to make enough to feed themselves of their families?

Those people DESERVE to be hungry?

Or should we instead just let the government deal with it?

The fact that people earn so little they actually qualify for govt assistance means they're not earning enough.

I don't understand how the bullshit argument about minimum wage harming the economy can still stand in America -- that's the power of the lobbyists, I suppose.

But countries like Australia, the UK - even Canada has a higher minimum wage than the US does.

The minimum wage in Australia is $16.37. In the States it's $7.25. Our cost of living is very fractionally higher, especially in terms of luxury items, but it sure as fuck isn't TWICE as high. And our unemployment rate isn't just lower, our economy was among the strongest during the recession.

I don't understand how people can deny raising the minimum wage in the face of overwhelming evidence of it's benefits and a decided LACK of evidence to any drawbacks.

 

[jeninflorida]

This is a beyond reasonable expectation and the only opposition to it appears to be the same sort of lack of responsibility that made car makers say that putting seat belts in cars would be too much of a financial burden and they are under no obligation to provide safety features.

That's all I can figure.

More of the "im nit responsible for myself..."

Need some milk?

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not calling your selfish you dumb twat....I'm calling you a hypocrite.

And I'm going to call you a peppermint martini.

It is equally applicable.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That, and Walmart is paying people so little that it's not enough for them to live off - which means the government is subsidizing the cost of people's living.

It boggles me, completely, how anyone can see that is NOT a problem, and that they're NOT paying people too little.

Yes the gov should quit subsidizing cheap labor. They need to turn it the fuck off....watch labor organize real fuckin' quick.

 

[Recidiva]

Exactly.

It's all well and good for people to claim, "Minimum wage shouldn't be enough to live on, it's not meant to be permanent, people are supposed to work up from there."

But you know what? Some people can't. Some people, for whatever reason, can't move up. They're not smart enough, not skilled enough, pretty enough, or there's just no room to move up. And so there are ALWAYS going to be people who can't get anything but minimum wage jobs.

And those people should be punished? We should punish people for working 40 hours a week and not being able to make enough to feed themselves of their families?

Those people DESERVE to be hungry?

Or should we instead just let the government deal with it?

The fact that people earn so little they actually qualify for govt assistance means they're not earning enough.

I don't understand how the bullshit argument about minimum wage harming the economy can still stand in America -- that's the power of the lobbyists, I suppose.

But countries like Australia, the UK - even Canada has a higher minimum wage than the US does.

The minimum wage in Australia is $16.37. In the States it's $7.25. Our cost of living is very fractionally higher, especially in terms of luxury items, but it sure as fuck isn't TWICE as high. And our unemployment rate isn't just lower, our economy was among the strongest during the recession.

I don't understand how people can deny raising the minimum wage in the face of overwhelming evidence of it's benefits and a decided LACK of evidence to any drawbacks.

There is a narrative that people who can't make it in the world are all parasites and lazy and there is no real problem.

I think that's political bullshit excuses for not having responsible business practices.

I am resistant to many regulations that would produce no actual change but only make running a business harder and then make it harder on the employee.

This is a simple bit of math, no need for oversight or complicated regulation, easy to do, and it could transform business practices in the same way that actually getting seatbelts put into cars made cars competitive on safety features and generated a new way to look at buying a car and new selling points for the industry to develop.

 

[jeninflorida]

And why am I responsible for that person?

Help me understand


Also people like that, if they are not responsible for themselves ...maybe they are not resposible enough to vote!

Exactly.

It's all well and good for people to claim, "Minimum wage shouldn't be enough to live on, it's not meant to be permanent, people are supposed to work up from there."

But you know what? Some people can't. Some people, for whatever reason, can't move up. They're not smart enough, not skilled enough, pretty enough, or there's just no room to move up. And so there are ALWAYS going to be people who can't get anything but minimum wage jobs.

And those people should be punished? We should punish people for working 40 hours a week and not being able to make enough to feed themselves of their families?

Those people DESERVE to be hungry?

Or should we instead just let the government deal with it?

The fact that people earn so little they actually qualify for govt assistance means they're not earning enough.

I don't understand how the bullshit argument about minimum wage harming the economy can still stand in America -- that's the power of the lobbyists, I suppose.

But countries like Australia, the UK - even Canada has a higher minimum wage than the US does.

The minimum wage in Australia is $16.37. In the States it's $7.25. Our cost of living is very fractionally higher, especially in terms of luxury items, but it sure as fuck isn't TWICE as high. And our unemployment rate isn't just lower, our economy was among the strongest during the recession.

I don't understand how people can deny raising the minimum wage in the face of overwhelming evidence of it's benefits and a decided LACK of evidence to any drawbacks.

 

[BotanyBoy]

And I'm going to call you a peppermint martini.

It is equally applicable.

No it's not...you live in the US, your quality of life directly and indirectly benefits from cheap brown/yellow labor in very big ways....fact.

You can bash it all you like but seeing as it makes the life you live possible I'm going to call you out for being a hypocrite.

 

[Recidiva]

No it's not...you live in the US, your quality of life directly and indirectly benefits from cheap brown/yellow labor in very big ways....fact.

You can bash it all you like but seeing as it makes the life you live possible I'm going to call you out for being a hypocrite.

You're off on your own private assumption ranch and that's okay, you can hang out there, but I don't need to go there and drag you out and get you to read or pay attention or care.

If most of my conversation could be cleared up by you reading what I wrote in the first place then I am not going to say it over and over.

I mean, sure, I might, but I'm trying to get away from that habit because it doesn't actually increase literacy and it annoys the people who do actually read.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You're off on your own private assumption ranch and that's okay, you can hang out there, but I don't need to go there and drag you out and get you to read or pay attention or care.

If most of my conversation could be cleared up by you reading what I wrote in the first place then I am not going to say it over and over.

I mean, sure, I might, but I'm trying to get away from that habit because it doesn't actually increase literacy and it annoys the people who do actually read.

Why can't you just admit you live a better life than 95% of the planet largely due to the fact that we outsource cheap ass labor?

Also you never answered my question...why is it anyone's business what a company pays it's employees?

 

[bg23]

And why am I responsible for that person?

Help me understand


Also people like that, if they are not responsible for themselves ...maybe they are not resposible enough to vote!

You're not responsible for that person. The company that hires them should PAY THEM BETTER. You know, a living wage. So they don't have to suck at the govt teat and that way your tax dollars DON'T have to be wasted on keeping them alive! If you make Walmart pay them a living wage, you don't HAVE to be responsible for them!


Isn't that what you want?

 

[Recidiva]

Why can't you just admit you live a better life than 95% of the planet largely due to the fact that we outsource cheap ass labor?

When you put it that way, I have. I've admitted it many times. This is what I plan to attempt to do about it.

Why can't you admit that people can do something about something they find socially objectionable and not be solely selfish?

I am not a hypocrite because I value my life and I appreciate the conveniences I have and I take advantage of them, although I do try to limit my greed, give to charity and help those who have less good fortune than I have had.

You didn't establish what I did or what I thought before you told me what I did and what I thought. Uncool. Peppermint martini territory.

 

[CandiCame]

Oh it is about you, me and every single person that lives in the 1st world.



MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT?????? YOU PAY THEM TO DO IT!!!!



I'm not calling your selfish you dumb twat....I'm calling you a hypocrite.

If you live in the 1st world like it or not you benefit from off WalMart and companies like them that use cheap 3rd world labor....

The only reason you have a smart phone or a computer to get on the internet in the first fucking place is because of cheap ass brown/yellow labor....

The only reason you can afford the vast majority of the shit you own that makes your life so fucking wonderful is because of cheap ass labor.



It's ok enough for people to give them their money for the cheap goods.....that's all that matters when you get down to the nitty gritty now isn't it?



Then mail that check off to induugu bubba...I'm not going to bash you for it but don't try and act like you don't benefit from cheap labor in foreign countries. There is like a 99.99999% chance cheap labor is why you're accessing the internet or keeping the food in your fridge from spoiling.....wash your clothes...vac your carpets....etc etc.



That's all very noble but it's so ubiquitous it's practically impossible to avoid benefiting from cheap foreign labor and live in any 1st world nation.



I'm not saying they can't....I'm saying they can't avoid the fact the only reason they can in the first place is b/c of that cheap labor.

Doing something is better than doing nothing because at least you're aware of the problem. It might not be changing anything, but those small measures, along with my cocktail of antidepressants make it less likely that I'm going to kill myself before my kid is born.

This is a major problem. And if I have to give up my smart phone so that somebody else can have a living wage- fuck the phone. I'm willing to give up my shit to even out. Everyone should be.

 

[bg23]

Yes the gov should quit subsidizing cheap labor. They need to turn it the fuck off....watch labor organize real fuckin' quick.

If the people were in a better position to bargain against Walmart I think that'd work but I just don't think they are. Turn off that subsidy and those people don't even have a subsidy -- what will they do? Threaten to quit? Fine, Walmart will hire the next desperate guy off the street.

After all when you're starving, 4 bucks an hr is much better than 0 bucks an hr. And the people who tried to organise and demand better conditions are left in a worse state.

 

[CandiCame]

When you put it that way, I have. I've admitted it many times. This is what I plan to attempt to do about it.

Why can't you admit that people can do something about something they find socially objectionable and not be solely selfish?

I am not a hypocrite because I value my life and I appreciate the conveniences I have and I take advantage of them, although I do try to limit my greed, give to charity and help those who have less good fortune than I have had.

You didn't establish what I did or what I thought before you told me what I did and what I thought. Uncool. Peppermint martini territory.

You had already established it by stating that all you were going to do was look at some records rather than boycotting. See, that's what actual literacy is, Reci. The ability to read something and understand it. This is part of what bothers me about you. Just because people call you out about something morally objectionable that you do, it doesn't mean that they didn't read what you wrote. It means that they read it, and disagreed with you. Because it's you, normally that objection is on moral grounds. People already know which companies use sweatshop labor, child labor and the like. Printing off a list isn't going to do shit. Boycott. Or stop pretending you give a shit.

 

[CandiCame]

If the people were in a better position to bargain against Walmart I think that'd work but I just don't think they are. Turn off that subsidy and those people don't even have a subsidy -- what will they do? Threaten to quit? Fine, Walmart will hire the next desperate guy off the street.

After all when you're starving, 4 bucks an hr is much better than 0 bucks an hr. And the people who tried to organise and demand better conditions are left in a worse state.

Plus Wal-Mart is not a good place to say the word "union".

 

[richard_daily]

Why can't you just admit you live a better life than 95% of the planet largely due to the fact that we outsource cheap ass labor?

Also you never answered my question...why is it anyone's business what a company pays it's employees?

No, the CEOs, and management elite live a better life due to outsourcing, whereas everyone else has seen their real wages declining since the early 70s.

 

[BotanyBoy]

When you put it that way, I have. I've admitted it many times. This is what I plan to attempt to do about it.

Cry about how horrible it is?? Yea good luck!

Why can't you admit that people can do something about something they find socially objectionable and not be solely selfish?

Ok....get ride of nearly EVERYTHING YOU OWN!!!!! and then...you can move out into a shanty and bitch about the evil capitalist pig's and how they take advantage of poor people in far off lands.

Accomplishing great things LMFAO.

I am not a hypocrite because I value my life and I appreciate the conveniences I have and I take advantage of them, although I do try to limit my greed, give to charity and help those who have less good fortune than I have had.

None of those things changes the fact that your bitching about and berating a system/practice that allows it in the first place. If you found it so objectionable you wouldn't even be on the internet.....

"I'm against horrible labor practices!! Shame shame shame on everyone involved!!" - posted from electronic device made possible by horrible labor practices...most likely in clothing made possible by horrible labor practices in a house filled with shit made possible by horrible labor practices.

Bash it all you like but own what comes with it......you're a hypocrite.

You didn't establish what I did or what I thought before you told me what I did and what I thought. Uncool. Peppermint martini territory.

YOU POSTED IT !!!

You think these cheap slave/sweat shop labor practices are horrible....fine.

But realize the ONLY reason you aren't working your tits off from sun up to sun down just to feed yourself....is b/c you paid someone else a few pennies to do it for you.

Doing something is better than doing nothing because at least you're aware of the problem. It might not be changing anything, but those small measures, along with my cocktail of antidepressants make it less likely that I'm going to kill myself before my kid is born.

At least you're honest about it.

This is a major problem. And if I have to give up my smart phone so that somebody else can have a living wage- fuck the phone. I'm willing to give up my shit to even out.

Everyone should be.

Fuck that I love my Iphone

If the people were in a better position to bargain against Walmart I think that'd work but I just don't think they are. Turn off that subsidy and those people don't even have a subsidy -- what will they do? Threaten to quit? Fine, Walmart will hire the next desperate guy off the street.

After all when you're starving, 4 bucks an hr is much better than 0 bucks an hr. And the people who tried to organise and demand better conditions are left in a worse state.

Unions seem to do fine in every other situation....guess wal mart is special for some reason and their employees can't.

 

[Recidiva]

No, the CEOs, and management elite live a better life due to outsourcing, whereas everyone else has seen their real wages declining since the early 70s.

The CEO's would have their lives minimally impacted. They'd have one less island, as stated.

The consumers can clearly manage an incremental cost it would take if the CEO wasn't already abusive and making out like a greased bandit.

I wouldn't mind having costs go up incrementally if it meant someone somewhere else could, say, keep their baby warm and keep lights on to study and eat something that isn't the cultural equivalent of baloney and Kool-Aid.

 

[jeninflorida]

No, the CEOs, and management elite live a better life due to outsourcing, whereas everyone else has seen their real wages declining since the early 70s.

Well thank your great cuckold obama as his regime is rewarding that behavior

 

[Recidiva]

Cry about how horrible it is?? Yea good luck!

Ok....get ride of nearly EVERYTHING YOU OWN!!!!! and then...you can move out into a shanty and bitch about the evil capitalist pig's and how they take advantage of poor people in far off lands.

Accomplishing great things LMFAO.

None of those things changes the fact that your bitching about and berating a system/practice that allows it in the first place. If you found it so objectionable you wouldn't even be on the internet.....

"I'm against horrible labor practices!! Shame shame shame on everyone involved!!" - posted from electronic device made possible by horrible labor practices...most likely in clothing made possible by horrible labor practices in a house filled with shit made possible by horrible labor practices.

Bash it all you like but own what comes with it......you're a hypocrite.

YOU POSTED IT !!!

You think these cheap slave/sweat shop labor practices are horrible....fine.

But realize the ONLY reason you aren't working your tits off from sun up to sun down just to feed yourself....is b/c you paid someone else a few pennies to do it for you.

At least you're honest about it.



Fuck that I love my Iphone



Unions seem to do fine in every other situation....guess wal mart is special for some reason and their employees can't.

I don't think I was crying or horrible or bashing. I'm being reasonable and you aren't.

You have absolutely no reason why this simple thing couldn't be done except that "everybody is evil but only Botanyboy admits it and that's why he's so awesome and Recidiva is all sorts of untrue things."

I think you could try harder to be a decent human being and that's what I get from this conversation.

Also, you could keep your splattering righteousness from trying to derail something that isn't as you're characterizing it and doesn't deserve to be derailed.

 

[jeninflorida]

You're not responsible for that person. The company that hires them should PAY THEM BETTER. You know, a living wage. So they don't have to suck at the govt teat and that way your tax dollars DON'T have to be wasted on keeping them alive! If you make Walmart pay them a living wage, you don't HAVE to be responsible for them!


Isn't that what you want?

Help me understand, why it the corporation to over pay people?

If someone is worth $3.50 an hour why should they be forced to pay $15?

 

[jeninflorida]

I don't think I was crying or horrible or bashing. I'm being reasonable and you aren't.

You have absolutely no reason why this simple thing couldn't be done except that "everybody is evil but only Botanyboyou admits it and that's why he's so awesome and Recidiva is all sorts of untrue things."



I think you could try harder to be a decent human being and that's what I get from this conversation.

Also, you could keep your splattering righteousness from trying to derail something that isn't as you're characterizing it and doesn't deserve to be derailed.

Here is why you fail in the workforce ... your acting on emotion

Business is never the place to act or show emotion.

Grow up and put on big boy pants...learn how to play the game