Looking to improve myself - not sure of the path

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, please report his behavior to the spa, OP. Please, please, please. You wouldn't want him doing that to the someone else for whom such an experience would be a traumatic assault.

This was San Fransisco. Who knows what spa she ended up at?

Noviceseeking, I have to assume that you gave explicit consent at an early point in the proceedings. You tend to be vague about those details in your commentary. Vague is not very useful in BDSM. it's not exactly rocket science, but it is more complicated than missionary humping. One of the hardest things for many of us-- and for many women, and especially for many women who have been reading lots of romance novels-- is to get over the idea that telling someone what we want then to do to us is cheating. When we are in bondage, we need to be able to be very clear with our partner if something hurts or is being twisted the wrong way or on the verge of breaking a bone. It's so difficult to get over the instinct to hope he notices.

And I just now am dealing with a reminder of that myself-- I have a verrry sore nipple piercing, because I let someone pull and twist it harder more than I should have on such a recent piercing. It was dumb of me to expect them to magically know when to stop.

 

[Noviceseeking]

Stella-
on the flip over; he did ask "you okay?" - I was entirely enjoying it and at that point it was a yes. Although clearly it hadn't ramped up yet to final situation. (which was only involving hands - and i was entirely on receiving end ...nothing else). And it was a yes through the whole thing. Verbalizing limits was not difficult - keeping it hands only was a short series of words. But i see the dilemma of whether this should be reported. In this case I feel rather culpabable based on my receptivity.
I have been trying to imagine the convo w spa admin.

 

[Noviceseeking]

I do want to rest your minds as I think this is taking a direction that is maybe more charged than it needs to be. Yes, is was cheeky as it began and unexpected [to be honest i was literally counting my blessings as i mean really, when EVER do you hear about women being offered similar experiences as men in massage situations] - but it was consensual - verbally and physically on the receiving end of it. So no harm, no foul. My vagueness is most likely based on my conflict re: straying outside marriage and the issues there.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Fuck.

Yes.

Remember, folks, when I was on a tirade about women not being able to purchase pleasure? And here is a woman who did, albeit unexpectedly. If you talk to the management tell them that you were utterly impressed with his sensitivity, self control, and expertise and that you were very glad to have had the experience.

I want to know the name of the spa -- so I can recommend it to my SF Lady Friends.

(We do ramble all over the place on these treads, Novice!)

 

[Noviceseeking]

And Stella...it was good.
So yeah. Fuck yeah.

 

[Loverskitten]

Fuck.

Yes.

Remember, folks, when I was on a tirade about women not being able to purchase pleasure? And here is a woman who did, albeit unexpectedly. If you talk to the management tell them that you were utterly impressed with his sensitivity, self control, and expertise and that you were very glad to have had the experience.

I want to know the name of the spa -- so I can recommend it to my SF Lady Friends.

(We do ramble all over the place on these treads, Novice!)

While I do agree with KoPilot (the same situation could be another woman's nightmare), I also want to visit this masseur. This is a fantasy of mine and I could use an all over massage so badly.

 

[Noviceseeking]

This thread has taken a bit of a sidepath from the original topic however it's a thought provoking one. ...

So weigh in: If you, ladies, were presented with a gift that sort of keeps on giving - ie name/number/spa of a masseuse who was able to not only service but honestly worship every inch of you...{he gave me his card and # afterwards} Would you become a frequent flier especially if it was simply confined to that experience? No relationship, no reciprocation, no expectations on your part other than to simply enjoy. This is what was great for me.

It's more complicated for me based on being married - in my case i have issues with fidelity i would have to grapple with. Just wanting to hear people's responses as I process the situation.

 

[Lrn_The_Ropes]

Sounds like a female version of the "Rub and Tug" or "Full" body massage.

 

[KoPilot]

Okay, just wanting to make sure it didn't just escalate "on its own" and he was taking nonverbal cues as the go-ahead. He asked, you consented, I see nothing inherently wrong here :B

As for if I would?

Um, assuming this was a fantasy world in which my fetish was actually satiable, and I was single, yes, I probably would. But if my fetish was satiable anyways, whose to say I couldn't be getting my particular brand of lovin' at home anyways?

I guess I mean to say "I dunno".

 

[Loverskitten]

This thread has taken a bit of a sidepath from the original topic however it's a thought provoking one. ...

So weigh in: If you, ladies, were presented with a gift that sort of keeps on giving - ie name/number/spa of a masseuse who was able to not only service but honestly worship every inch of you...{he gave me his card and # afterwards} Would you become a frequent flier especially if it was simply confined to that experience? No relationship, no reciprocation, no expectations on your part other than to simply enjoy. This is what was great for me.

It's more complicated for me based on being married - in my case i have issues with fidelity i would have to grapple with. Just wanting to hear people's responses as I process the situation.

First of all, YES! Although I'd have to travel, it would be a welcome addition to a fun getaway.

Secondly, I'm single, never married although I am monogamous when in a relationship. I would be feeling guilt over this. I'm not in your marriage so I have no idea how you should handle the situation.
I suppose if it were me, I'd confess that I got extremely turned on during a massage and may have sent out some "go ahead" signals, and proceed from there. Then again, I'm honest to a fault, lost a relationship in my past because I confessed to a drunken indiscretion.

 

[Noviceseeking]

Okay. So at least I'm not the only one, if I wasn't committed, that would appreciate this available option. For now, I can't be the frequent flier only as it will complicate things too much. I do wonder why this type of thing is not more widely available for those women who need - even just for an hour - to feel appreciated and relaxed. And in this scenario - no one's in technical servitude {unlike the rub/tug places with actual slavery}...its a consensual thing.

Am i naive, or is this a rarity? or is it just that women won't ask for it explicitly whereas men are more willing to commoditize the situation? Not sure .

 

[Loverskitten]

Okay. So at least I'm not the only one, if I wasn't committed, that would appreciate this available option. For now, I can't be the frequent flier only as it will complicate things too much. I do wonder why this type of thing is not more widely available for those women who need - even just for an hour - to feel appreciated and relaxed. And in this scenario - no one's in technical servitude {unlike the rub/tug places with actual slavery}...its a consensual thing.

Am i naive, or is this a rarity? or is it just that women won't ask for it explicitly whereas men are more willing to commoditize the situation? Not sure .

I have wondered that myself, guys have it so easy.
I think first if all, women aren't supposed to be horny, sexual creatures (BIG rolleyes)
But on the serious note, this walks the law line. This service is illegal in CA and almost all states (for men too) I'm not a lawyer, and I wonder if there's a sneaky way around it, but the difference between a massage and prostitution is, well, the issue.
Strip clubs, porn theatres, etc. require special licensing and undercover vice checks. Spas caught providing these services could face charges.
I remember a while back a woman started a thread in "fetish & sexuality" about getting "happy ending" massages. The search never works on my device though.

 

[Loverskitten]

I wonder if there may be a way to hire some professional masseuses and masseurs to give erotic massages at a private place (like a dungeon) at a play party or something?

 

[Noviceseeking]

I would think that especially possible if under the concept of a 'private member /private party' type scenario. I just wish there was a venue where women could really recharge their sexual batteries in a NSA situation that was not a creepy as the icky craigslist postings etc. It's true. We are all of what you write. And like me, we often get dulled or overwhelmed and that sexuality just gets lost. re: other venues ..out where we are those crazy pleasure parties are a big hit. I doubt many women would really peel off of the party for a little rest and relaxation mainly as I doubt they would be able to go back to the party and not feel weird - but gee, wouldn't it be amazing. I mean really. I just think it would be great to be able to explore your sensuality in a safe situation. Ah to dream.

 

[Loverskitten]

Well maybe not at a crazy play party, but I think this would be a great step in between a munch and a play party. Some socializing, some wine (responsibly) or tea, a nice massage, maybe some toys... hmmm (my gears are churning)
Then again, maybe it's just us two interested, lol

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay. So at least I'm not the only one, if I wasn't committed, that would appreciate this available option. For now, I can't be the frequent flier only as it will complicate things too much. I do wonder why this type of thing is not more widely available for those women who need - even just for an hour - to feel appreciated and relaxed. And in this scenario - no one's in technical servitude {unlike the rub/tug places with actual slavery}...its a consensual thing.

Am i naive, or is this a rarity? or is it just that women won't ask for it explicitly whereas men are more willing to commoditize the situation? Not sure .

Exactly this. Women buy shoes.

But I do think we are seeing a change starting in this mindset...

 

[KoPilot]

Exactly this. Women buy shoes.

But I do think we are seeing a change starting in this mindset...

I dunno. I'm going off to a bachelorette party (I fuck hate pre-wedding shit, it's so creepy to me) in Vegas. The boys are going to strip clubs, and the ladies are... I dunno, maybe we think going to a Chippendale's show or something, w/e.

The strip club is serious business, and the male strip show is basically comedy entertainment. I guess the point is that women are able to lower their guard and find it hot and they can worry about being able to openly do that without it being a punchline later?

Chippendale's is also expensive as shit compared to the strip club. $50 a head, not including tips and drinks >:[

 

[Noviceseeking]

No kidding. Chippendales from my memory is also the most overrated, non sensual "show" ever- in truth full of most likely gay men dry humping covered in horrid oil. Zero actual interest there. I find the peppermint rhino more my speed - chicks are way more appealing. I do think it's almost as if women are slowly stepping towards accepting their real desires to be catered to. It's hard to leave behind society's perceived judgement though. Even if I were single I think I would be torn between the reality that I enjoyed - and what does that make me...a whore? A slut? Sonhardto overturn those thoughts. Have fun...eat delicious food....Nobu is unparalleled. Miso crusted cod might make up for lack of good sensual fun....

 

[KoPilot]

No kidding. Chippendales from my memory is also the most overrated, non sensual "show" ever- in truth full of most likely gay men dry humping covered in horrid oil. Zero actual interest there. I find the peppermint rhino more my speed - chicks are way more appealing. I do think it's almost as if women are slowly stepping towards accepting their real desires to be catered to. It's hard to leave behind society's perceived judgement though. Even if I were single I think I would be torn between the reality that I enjoyed - and what does that make me...a whore? A slut? Sonhardto overturn those thoughts. Have fun...eat delicious food....Nobu is unparalleled. Miso crusted cod might make up for lack of good sensual fun....

Personally, I'd take a hockey game over a strip club of any sort any day. Greasy, gyrating bodies never really did it for me, and to use a phrase that I posted in another thread-- I read ciswomen and people with boobs as uninteresting meatblobs. Bring me to a strip club and I'll bring a book, thanks.

I'll definitely go out and grab some good food; possibly in lieu of Chippendale's too... if they let me. Going to a show that's more poking fun at female sexuality than not with a bunch of sexually repressed older women ain't my bag. It just opens up a weird can of gender worms for me too. (When my cousins get drunk, all they fucking talk about is babies.)

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not saying we are seeing mainstream services aimed at this mindset, mind you. Chippendales isn't going to change. At least-- not soon.

 

[subintraining28]

Novice I completely understand where you are and how you are feeling. I was there myself not that long ago. I knew there was something missing but I couldn't pinpoint what it was. When I started researching D/s it all just seemed to fit. I actually found Lit during that research. Thankfully I have been able to meet a wonderful Dom sms we are very happy. I have always been the controller in my relationships and I think that's why they failed. So I definitely believe this can be learned. I also find another site that was more marriage based and it has done stress of reading for ways to ask your husband for this type of relationship. It's called Taken By the Hand. I would suggest reading some of their information as well. I really enjoy what I find on Lit however it can be intense at times for a nervous newbie. Please feel free to PM me if you would like to chat. Good luck on your journey. it's worth asking for what you need.

 

[BrightlyGo]

I do think it's almost as if women are slowly stepping towards accepting their real desires to be catered to. It's hard to leave behind society's perceived judgement though. Even if I were single I think I would be torn between the reality that I enjoyed - and what does that make me...a whore? A slut?

i just know i'm answering a rhetorical question again, but... you were the one paying, so definitely not a whore, right? What's the other side of that: a 'john.' Maybe you were a 'jane.' Similarly, i don't think 'slut,' in any of its several meanings and connotations, fits at all.

Some submissives do like to be called 'slut,' though, either for the verbal abuse/degradation, or under alternate meanings or connotations specific to kinky communities.

 

[Marquis]

BDSM has always been a catalyst for greater depths of intimacy in my relationships. I think some people are just wired that way, or maybe it comes from early influences. Other people take salsa lessons together, I would do that stuff too, but I enjoy BDSM games with my partner.

I think when you start salsa dancing with other partners to "enhance" your marriage there is a point where you may be lying to yourself though.

 

[aDarkTwistedMind]

I wonder if there may be a way to hire some professional masseuses and masseurs to give erotic massages at a private place (like a dungeon) at a play party or something?

As a professional massage therapist I would say no there isn't a situation where a licensed massage therapist could participate in something like this and not risk losing their license. Now, if they did it for fee perhaps. But it would seriously get into a gray area as far as state licensing boards go.

As far as women asking for 'happy endings' it is perhaps more common than many of you believe. I personally don't have it happen much because my business is set up in a non spa environment. But it does happen.

 

[Ruby_Atom]

If I was single, I would totally consider paying for such a service!

To weigh in on the main topic, though, remember that BDSM relationships are just relationships. They need good communication and understanding to work. You don't need anyone to teach you how it's done; you explore it with your partner and learn and grow together. Do seek out advice and reading material. That is certainly extremely useful!